Tyco Hoppers

[jwhitten]

 Do the Tyco hopper cars ("Virginian", etc) have an actual prototype or are they just generic hoppers?

[dstarr]

 "Generic".  There is no hard and fast answer to that question.  No model is ever an exact scale replica of a prototype, there are always deviations.  Tyco probably deviated more than other makers.  I was able to find one photograph of a Virginian hopper on the web.  It had the bold "Virginian" lettering on the side but was painted oxide red rather than the silver that Tyco used.  If you are a real Virginian fan you can find picture books with fine color photographs of Virginian rolling stock.  You hold the model in your hand and compare it with the photo.  You will find some things match the photo and some don't.  If you can find scale drawings, you can measure the model with a scale rule and see how closely it compares.  Railroads ordered hopper cars in batches over the last hundred years, and the cars last a long time.  It's a good bet that four or five different models of Virginian hopper cars were in service at any one time, and the Tyco model will be a closer match to some than to others.   Tyco made a 2 bay and a four bay Virginian hopper, and I dare say the real railroad had both sorts too. 

Then there are things you can do to improve the looks of low end train set cars like Tyco.  A coal load, easily made, is a good start.  A shot of Dullcote will kill the gloss of the paint.  Painting the trucks rust red and the wheel faces grimy black is a good touch.  Cast on grab irons can be chiseled off and replaced with wire ones.  Ladders and stirrups can be replaced with thinner and closer to scale ones.  The last two operations will probably require repainting and redecalling the car, but that's not too hard either. 

 

[jwhitten]

dstarr

 "Generic".  There is no hard and fast answer to that question. 

 

I'm not rivet counting, but I am interested to know if its in the ballpark. I have been studying Virginian rolling stock and haven't been able to spot any that were done up in that livery-- which is not to say that there were none, just that I haven't run across one yet. All of the ones I have found so far have been in a black or red (oxide / boxcar red) with white lettering, and I saw hoppers of all types but none that resemble the Tyco model.

The reason I ask is that I have inherited a bunch of them and am wondering whether I want to run them or not. I generally ascribe to the "good-enough" philosophy, but do generally want things to be at least in the ballpark and not complete fantasy. I have some exceptions of course but its easier to explain away a non-prototypical loco or two than a whole fleet of brightly-colored hoppers :)

(Which of course points up that I could also just repaint / reletter them-- but that takes a certain amount of time too)

 

Thanks for the reply

John

[dstarr]

I'm not a real Virginian fan, but I don't remember silver Virginian hopper, either in real life or in a picture.  Doesn't mean they don't exist, just means one never came before my eyes.  You'd think a flashy and distinctive paint job like that would have a prototype.  On the other hand, Athearn made and sold a humungous number of Boston & Maine hoppers painted in the McGinnis bluebird scheme.  It is generally accepted that no real B&M hopper was ever painted anything other than black or oxide red.  If Athearn can do fantasy B&M paint jobs, I'm sure Tyco could do fantasy Virginian paint jobs too.  

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

 The only Tyco hopper I really like is the 'Old Dutch Cleanser' one. I used to have a couple back many years ago. I wouldn't mind having one now even if it still had the old truck mounted couplers on it.

[jwhitten]

dstarr

If Athearn can do fantasy B&M paint jobs, I'm sure Tyco could do fantasy Virginian paint jobs too.  

 

 

 Sure, no argument there. However I've seen other companies (maybe Athern- not sure, except I know they were not Tyco) that have done up Virginian hoppers in the same black on silver scheme. Perhaps nobody really knows and they are just copying from each other...? :)

 

 

[Piedsou]

To my knowledge all Virginian hoppers used in coal service were painted only black with white lettering. No silver nor oxide red.

However, there were Class BL-4 ballast hoppers built at the companies' Princeton Shops in 1952 that were painted silver with black lettering. They were, as noted, side dump ballast cars.

The Tyco hoppers which were originally Mantua cars that were made to operate (actually dump coal from the hoppers) had no prototypes.

 Dale Latham,  Piedmont Southern Railroad,  GMR 2009

[dehusman]

Tyco hoppers are usually a one off copy based on the B&O W-2 offset quad hopper.  They are not typical of Virginian cars, EXCEPT, they can be kitbashed into a Virginian "battleship" coal gondola (there was an article in MR many years ago)  You cut up the sides of a couple hoppers to make a 50 ft high side gon that travels on 3 axle trucks.  It was dumped in a rotary dumper.  They weren't silver either.

[jwhitten]

"

Piedsou

To my knowledge all Virginian hoppers used in coal service were painted only black with white lettering. No silver nor oxide red.

 

 

Well, I think I finally have a reasonably definitive answer-- an excerpt from a text I found discussing various Virginian hopper details for historical modeling purposes:

Name of document: VirginianHopperNotes(Homcomments)[1].doc

Located in files area of "VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts" Yahoo group (you'll have to join the group to access the file)

And finally, it appears that the ubiquitous Tyco silver 4 bay isn’t close to anything that Virginian had.  Athearn did VGN 34’ hoppers in both peaked and flat ends; the peaked end version is incorrect for any VGN class.  Bob Moore says that Walthers has discontinued the flat end version(sigh).  And, really finally, I heard that Bowser was about to run the covered hopper in 12 different numbers before it was mentioned to them that VGN only had 2 of them.  But those two hoppers and the battleship gons are another discussion."

[dstarr]

Piedsou

To my knowledge all Virginian hoppers used in coal service were painted only black with white lettering. No silver nor oxide red.

However, there were Class BL-4 ballast hoppers built at the companies' Princeton Shops in 1952 that were painted silver with black lettering. They were, as noted, side dump ballast cars.

The Tyco hoppers which were originally Mantua cars that were made to operate (actually dump coal from the hoppers) had no prototypes.

 Dale Latham,  Piedmont Southern Railroad,  GMR 2009

 So is this one  black or oxide red? 

 

[jwhitten]

 

dstarr

 So is this one  black or oxide red? 

 

That appears to be their black and iron-oxide red scheme... ;)