Aero Train

[Anonymous]

Hi
Some time ago I saw a picture of what was I think called the Aero train
A real ultra modern looking train even in this day and age it would have an ultra modern look.
Are any models of it avalable of it or similar modern trains of the same Era
regards John

[Anonymous]

Don't know that, but I think that was built by a divison of GM back in the mid 50s.
Think it saw temporary sevice on UP tracks and for sure on the Rock Island.

[lupo]

hello john,
BOWSER makes them in HO, here is the site:
http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoemrrs/aerotrain/aerotrain.htm

lupo

[Anonymous]

Lupo beat me to it [;)]

Jay

[Anonymous]

what is that thing ? i know its a train but what in the world where the designers thinking . that thing looks aweful

[CNJ831]

Certainly looking quite different from other passenger trains of the time, the Aero Train was essentially an attempt at a low cost option for railroads attempting to maintain passenger service in a period when it was slowly dying out. Even in the short-term the Aero Train was a failure at this purpose. The passenger cars were essentially a redesigned version of over-the-road busses and proved to have simply awful riding characteristics. I believe the Rock was the only road where the Aero train saw service for any significant period of time.

Speaking of odd-looking 1950's trains that were reproduced in HO, look around for some pictures of Mantua's Talgo Train, another bizarre item which in prototype service proved to be an equal failure!

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

The aero-train was an attempt by the railroads to attract more passengers back from the Airlines. if you look at the engine, you'll see a distinct non-coincidence design that is very much what Airplanes looked like during the same timeframe. In essence they were trying to say that this train would be as fast or faster than an airplane (although ti never was), they never advertised it this way, but using the term Areo and the appaerance of looking like an airplane, was intentially to give this impression.

In actually, it may look ugly now, but back them it was state of the art beautiful, and if it had ran smooth and was fast, it would have been a great train. unfortunaly, as others have stated, it operated very badely. of course, if the designers had designed all new passenger cars as well, then it would have probably been a great sucess.

And it was not the only strange looking train from the time, there were others as well. It was a very fluidic moment for deisels as they tried to come up with ways to compete with each other (most deisel manufactuers were new, as most steam manufactuer's hadn't made the switch yet) and, in the passenger market, the newly blooming airline business.

Jay

[cacole]

I wouldn't call the Talgo train a failure, at least not its present-day incarnation. Amtrak is running Talgo trains in the Pacific northwest and there are several running in Europe. Talgo trains were developed in Spain, and the builder even loaned a set to Amtrak for testing in the U.S.

A true Talgo train has a suspension system that allows the passenger coaches to lean into curves. This lets them go faster than a passenger train with normal suspension. The German Intercity Express (ICE) train, which tops 250 miles per hour, is a Talgo, and I believe the "Chunnel" train that runs between England and France at speeds of nearly 300 miles per hour, is a Talgo.

I'm not familiar with the Mantua Talgo train, but have never been impressed with anything made by Mantua/Tyco. When Mantua was about to go under, they put some of their products on sale. I bought two of their steam engine models and neither one will run, they used such horribly cheap motors in them. They had adequate detail, but a terrible drive mechanism.

[Anonymous]

Hi
Thanks to all of you
To NJ freight that thing is a train[swg]
That with which I intend to deal with the stuffed shirts at a modeling group I know.
Actualy I like it it apeals to my sense of the odd.otherwise I would not be concidering buying one.
Now do I go with loco and two cars or three cars?
I am guessing at least one colour scheme was white can some one give the livery details please
regards john

[Anonymous]

John, follow the bowser link above, there's some photo's at the bottom fo the real thing. also remember the Bowser Model is unpowered, so you'll have to do the powering kit they have listed. As for number of cars, I'd say get the 3 cars (loco, observation and coach), then add 3 more coaches to get it to look good. that's 4 coaches total, but 5 or 6 would be good too.

Edit:
the photo http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoemrrs/aerotrain/aero_10.jpg, looks to have 9 coaches and an observation on it. but in our little world, that would be pretty long at 10 cars, so could condense it to 5 cars, 1 observation and 4 coaches.

As for coloring, looks to be white and red only, or stainless with the red.

Jay

[passengerfan]

The GM Aero Trains numbered three and were built in 1956. The futuristic power unit was a dismal failure having only 1,200 hp a single 567C 12 cylinder diesel. Two of the three train sets used GM redesigned bus bodies and the air ride suspension was inadequate at the time to smooth out the roadbed. On of these tested on the PRR between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh before being sold to the Rock Island for commuter service. The train operating on the PRR required helpers for all major grades in the Mountains. The UP leased one set and assigned it to CITY OF LAS VEGAS service between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Once again the underpowered train required helpers on Cajon and one other part of the daily run. The UP operated the train with nine cars instead of the usual ten and it soon earned the nickname Crapshooters Special. Up canceled the leas before the year lease was up and this train was sold to the Rock Island for commuter service also. The third train was sold to the Rock Island as the JET ROCKET operating twice daily round trip service between Peoria and Chicago replacing the conventional PEORIA ROCKET. The cars pulled by this unit were three unit articulated sets of four cars each from ACF and were Talgo train sets. After passenger complaints the JET ROCKET was assigned to commuter service and the conventional PEORIA ROCKET was reinstated. This unit Rock Island 1 was scrapped while the two complete GM Aerotrains were donated to Museums in Green Bay, Wisc. and St. Louis, Missouri.

[Anonymous]

I've always liked the Aerotrain myself. Another model that's available is from MTH in O gauge three-rail. There's some more information with a video of it running on the Classic Toy Trains section of trains.com.
http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/004/504bjzei.asp

[Anonymous]

The biggest problem with the Aero Train, is that someone left the wings off and the thing would never get off the ground. And thats the truth[8D][8D]

[Anonymous]

Bowser's Aero train was originally tooled by Varney in the '50s when the prototype first came out. It was always made in plastic-both engine and cars, didn't have an interior and was even far lighter ijn weight than early AHM/Rivarossi stuff. I think Varney offered it powered w/ a DC-71 motor powering the front truck only, as well as an unpowered unit. I had an unpowered & undecorated (lite gray unpainted shells) some years back-just before Bowser reintroduced it. The Aero Train was featured on at least some of Varney's kit boxes of that era, and of course on the boxes for the Aero Train.

The styling of the Aero Train was similar to that on a lot of GM's concept/Motorama vehicles of that era, and I believe the Aero Train was styled by the same 'designer' as some of their equally bizarre vehicles. GM had a forerunner of the modern van/mini bus type vehicle-sorta cab-over design, that shared a similar theme to the Aero Train. All in all, a less than 'high-water mark' for US industrial design.

[Supermicha]

QUOTE: A true Talgo train has a suspension system that allows the passenger coaches to lean into curves. This lets them go faster than a passenger train with normal suspension. The German Intercity Express (ICE) train, which tops 250 miles per hour, is a Talgo, and I believe the "Chunnel" train that runs between England and France at speeds of nearly 300 miles per hour, is a Talgo.

Thats not right. The name talgo stands for the system that two cars are supported by one single axle truck. This system was first introduced 1941 in spain on the "Talgo" Trains and is also used on todays Amtrak´s Cascade trains.

Here you can see the single axle truck between two cars:





The other thing you are talking about is the tilting technology: The german ICE-T (T for Tilting) has this system. The whole train can tilt sideward 5 degrees to each side which allows higher speed in curves and shorter driving times on non high speed lines. Its maximum speed is 230 km/h. The normal ICE goes with 250 km/h, not miles!

Here you can see a demonstration of the tilting:


From 1980 on, also the Talgo trains got the tilting technology.

The Eurostar train between London and Paris has no tilting technoligy, it runs on high speed lines with large curves.

The Aerotrain was also available in HO from Varney, some of these models are very often at ebay.com, i think there will fin dsome nice stuff.

[ndbprr]

The cars for the Aerotrain were GM bus bodies and rode extremely rough. If you look at the windows in the coaches you will see the same shape as the classic GM bus. People who rode it long distance were not enamored. Those of us old enough to remember it are fascinated by it for the most part.

[Anonymous]

There's a photo of one of these in "Chicago's commuter railroads, a guide to the Metra system" by Richard Kunz - the caption suggests that they ended their days in commuter service.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Supermicha

QUOTE: A true Talgo train has a suspension system that allows the passenger coaches to lean into curves. This lets them go faster than a passenger train with normal suspension. The German Intercity Express (ICE) train, which tops 250 miles per hour, is a Talgo, and I believe the "Chunnel" train that runs between England and France at speeds of nearly 300 miles per hour, is a Talgo.

Thats not right. The name talgo stands for the system that two cars are supported by one single axle truck. This system was first introduced 1941 in spain on the "Talgo" Trains and is also used on todays Amtrak´s Cascade trains.

The other thing you are talking about is the tilting technology: The german ICE-T (T for Tilting) has this system. The whole train can tilt sideward 5 degrees to each side which allows higher speed in curves and shorter driving times on non high speed lines. Its maximum speed is 230 km/h. The normal ICE goes with 250 km/h, not miles!

From 1980 on, also the Talgo trains got the tilting technology.

The Eurostar train between London and Paris has no tilting technoligy, it runs on high speed lines with large curves.

The Aerotrain was also available in HO from Varney, some of these models are very often at ebay.com, i think there will fin dsome nice stuff.

Micha is right - but the ICE 3 like the Eurostar through the Chunnel and the newest TGV reach 300 km/h - Saw this every day, the ICE line Cologne - Frankfurt isn´t far away from home.

Aerotrain:

1. Bowser use the former Varney forms - I buyed one set (powerunit - 2 cars - end car) from Bowser in UP´s City of Las Vegas paintscheme plus some additional cars

2. This is a real basic kit - that needs a loooooooooooooooot of work - The kit is unpowered, the cars without windows, many details not applied.

[:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][[#dots]:D]

And one locomotie is today in Greenbay, Wisconsin, one set is in Kirkwood, Missouri.

[Leon Silverman]

Just a note from a former Varney Aerotrain owner. The model ran as poorly as the prototype. Varney used a DC60 motor mounted in the rear of engine and driving the front truck with a hollow plastic driveshaft that had slots cut at it's edges to mate with the engine and truck drive shafts. This drive shaft was a hard plastic that readily broke after a long run. Kemtron had a replacement drive system that had a flexible driveshaft. The three cars that came in the set was about all this engine could pull. A longer train would require a helper just like the protoype needed.

[chutton01]

Well, if you are going to model one, perhaps this link to a page of brochures, magazine ads, and other propaganda about the Aerotrain may help.
Lots of pictures and drawings (some, well, many exaggerated), but still possibly useful (there are some close-ups, sketches, and interior views)
http://www.carofthecentury.com/the_aerotrain.htm

[Anonymous]

Consumers weren't the only complainants on the Jet Rocket ACF Talgo set on the RI. The cars were so light they wouldn't trip the track circuits. RI upped the voltage and then they got into false reds along the Illinois River where moisture from the mists and fogs would trip the track circuits. The train also had a B/W TV camera in the nose piped back to a set in the lounge that repeatedly scared the living daylights out of the pax as they watched the near misses at the crossings. The TV "accidentally" broke one day and was never replaced (the time being far in advance of video tape technology). the train set wound up in commuter service with the 2 Aerotrains.

[Anonymous]

The UP use the AeroTrain as City of Las Vegas. For this service the train was shortend from 8 to 7 midcars.

At Cajon Pass also the short Aerotrain need a helper. I think most time a GP9 that pull this train uphill towards summit.