I bought a couple of NJ International Crossing Signals and need a flasher/detection module to run them.
Can I use the Walthers Crossing module http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2307 for this?
I know it's not for DCC layouts, but isn't that only if you are trying to power the controller with your DCC system? Can't I just use a DC power pack to power it and it won't matter if I use DCC?
Yes, you can use any flasher module because they are not connected to track power. The description of the Walthers flasher product even tells you that you need a separate power supply, and the box is marked on the side with the protruding wire, "Input 19 VAC." That means it can operate on up to 19 Volts AC, so an old power pack's accessory terminals should be perfect for it.
Ok, well I've seen some things that suggest you have to connect it to the track (DC power) for detection.
I'm really just looking for something fairly simple to wire a single grade crossing with signals.
The Walthers module is made to operate their LED style signals. The older NJ signal use light bulbs and may not work.
nedthomas The Walthers module is made to operate their LED style signals. The older NJ signal use light bulbs and may not work.
True. Not only that, but the Walthers unit uses track polarity to trigger the signal as to which direction the train is going - turns on a few sec before the train gets to the crossing and off right after it passes. I bought the darn thing when it first came out & I am still trying to figure out how to use it with DCC!!!
This is a basic flasher circuit. although it's not the same make as yours it's what i use and should wire similarly to yours.
The heavy black wires on the left bottom of the picture are going from the block, thru a DALLEE train detection circuit and back to the track again within the block of the highway you want the flashers to protect. When a train is detected, a relay is thrown on the Train detection circuit closing a circuit to the flasher circuit. the CIRCUITRON FL-2 flasher circuit sends out a flashing pulse to the wiring to each LED on the crossing flasher with a resistor in series to each LED. It looks more complicated than what it is.
The flasher circuit uses a different power source than the track power. I use 12 A/C but is converted to a filtered 12 D/C thru the little devise at the top left of the picture. A DALLEE 12 V D/C filter.
What's great about using a block is that once the train clears the block, the crossbucks turn off. If you have a long train, then you'll need to put some resistors across a few wheels of rolling stock so that the crossing bucks keep working until the entire train passes thru the block circuit. I lighted my cabooses which keeps the crossing flasher blinking until the entire lenght of the train clears the block....chuck
lvanhenI bought the darn thing when it first came out & I am still trying to figure out how to use it with DCC!!!
Ok, so I did some digging around and came across a site where a guy said the only way to use this with DCC is to wire the sensors/crossing gates as normal, but then use a DC powerpack for the power connection instead of your track power.... Then the real trick is to use the direction control on the powerpack to correspond to the direction your train is traveling so the unit knows what sensors to activate. Either that or the guy said you could wire up a switch (DPST etc.) and toggle the DC power with that to match the direction of your train.
It's not real convenient, but this way I can use it with DCC. I mostly run the same direction on my mainline anyway, but if I happen to be going the other way I'll just flip the powerpacks direction switch.
By the way my NJ International crossings each use 4 LEDs.
Installing a train detection circuit will eliminate polarity issues. All you have to do is cut two gaps in one side of your rails. (preferably a section of track where you want the crossing flasher to turn on and off before and after the highway crossing) Next take one leg of the DCC feeder buss wire and run it through the detector port and then solder the same wire to the rail between the gaps. Feed and alternative 12V DC power source to the TDC and your flasher circuit and then wire the TDC's relay to the flasher unit and then to the crossbuck lights.
The way you are doing it means you'll have to throw a switch everytime the train changes direction. After awhile that's going to become frustrating.
DALLEE has some nice TDC's and they aren't that expensive. I usually use the TRAK - DT #365 train detector. It works very well and is simple to wire.....chuck
check out this website: http://www.dallee.com/
Here's another possibility, one which does not require cutting gaps in the rail or polarity sensing. It is an infrared sensor that bounces a beam off of the bottom of the rolling stock in order to sense it.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/IrProximity.html
My personal biggest problem with block sensing to detect trains for grade crossings is the fact that if you have a reasonably short detection block, if you run a longer train than will fit into it, you'll have to have at least three cars fitted with a load (motor/resistor/lights/etc.); one in front (locomotive), one at the rear (caboose or FRED) and one in the middle. If your detected cars span the block without making contact, the grade crossing will not be activated. With the IR Proximity detector, you can even have the detection zones for different grade crossings span each other.
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
Chuck - thanks for the link, I'll shelve the Walthers controller - throwing switches & having 1 more power pak to fool with is not very convenient!!
I have been very happy with the South Bend Signal Company flasher units. The price is right, too.
www.sbsignal.com
John Timm
I appreciate the help... honestly I'm just going to try the powerpack reversing polarity thing. Yeah, it means I'll have to hit a button each time the train changes direction, but like I said I usually run one direction on my main anyway so it will be an infrequent change.
If it ends up being too big a hassle, then I can always do the detection circuit. I just don't think it will be that big of a deal for a fun but ultimately cosmetic accessory like crossing signals.
The Walthers flasher module that the OP is asking about uses optical sensors placed betwen the rails to detect a train, and is not connected to the track anywhere. It is not a block detector circuit, but works on the blocking of light as a train passes over the detector(s).
Here's an interesting circuit from Paisley's site - a combination flasher and detector setup, at a reasonable price, that will protect prototypically, bi-directionally, and can be daisy-chained to protect multi-track crossings. He can sell it as a PC board (you find the parts), a kit (with board and parts), and as a completed ready-to-install unit. Oh, and it doesn't attach to the track, and so can be used with DC and DCC.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/GC04.html
I'm thinking about this one, myself...
---
Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
There are a host of control circuits you can use along with different methods of train detection. I did a lot of research a couple of years ago to find the best way to automate a crossing on my BRVRR layout.
I came up with the system from Berkshire Junction. I bought my whole crossing system as a kit for about $50. I opted for Infra-Red train detectors because I wanted the system to work in the dark. The BJ detector/activator circuit board will work with DC or DCC since it is powered separately. I used an old "train set" power pack.
I have had zero problems with the whole system.
Here's the link: http://www.berkshirejunction.com/
Berkshire Junction offers many different solutions for train detection and flashers. An e-mail inquiry as to what is best for your application should get a quick response.
I have a short "photo essay" on the installation of my crossing signals, train detection system and flasher on my website. Link is in my signature. Once on site, push the Layout button and scroll down to the thumbnail of the RR crossing.
Good luck with your crossing, no matter what method you choose to control it.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
This electronic stuff is mind boggling. I'll just use a simple on-off switch to control any lighted/gated/animated railroad crossing, thank you. Besides, at one time they were manually controlled prototypically..... I'm particularly fond of wig-wags.
Mark
cacole The Walthers flasher module that the OP is asking about uses optical sensors placed betwen the rails to detect a train, and is not connected to the track anywhere. It is not a block detector circuit, but works on the blocking of light as a train passes over the detector(s).
Sorry to disagree, but the Walthers unit IS connected to the track. The reason it's DC is it takes the track polarity to time-out the delay for actuateing the signals. It DOES use optical sensors to activate, but track power to orient.
Believe me, if I could use it as is I WOULD!!!!!!!!!!!!
One word of caution regarding electronic components that will be powered from a standard power pack. Do not trust the stated voltage on the power pack. I learned this the hard way when I tried to power my Walthers turntable from the 16V outlet of an old MRC power pack and fried the control board. The instructions recommended a voltage of no more than 18V so I thought I was OK. When I contacted Walthers, that told me that their experience was that some of these power packs actually output as much as 22V and they recommended I test it wit a voltage meter. Sure enough, it was over 20V. Walthers replaced the board at no charge to me and recommended a Miniatronics 12V power supply which I have used without problems since.
Believe me, I know of what you speak about power pack voltages.
I checked the output before I connected mine to my crossing signals and set the throttle at the minimum voltage the system would operate on. Turned out to be 12.5 VDC.
I have cooked a couple of small circuits in the past and now I am even more careful.
NYCentral1 Ok, so I did some digging around and came across a site where a guy said the only way to use this with DCC is to wire the sensors/crossing gates as normal, but then use a DC powerpack for the power connection instead of your track power.... Then the real trick is to use the direction control on the powerpack to correspond to the direction your train is traveling so the unit knows what sensors to activate. Either that or the guy said you could wire up a switch (DPST etc.) and toggle the DC power with that to match the direction of your train. It's not real convenient, but this way I can use it with DCC. I mostly run the same direction on my mainline anyway, but if I happen to be going the other way I'll just flip the powerpacks direction switch.
This is certainly not the Achiles Heel of DCC, but I think some opportunity exists for someone to develop and market a crossing detector circuit that can detect train direction without relying on track polarity.
chicochip
chicochip This is certainly not the Achiles Heel of DCC, but I think some opportunity exists for someone to develop and market a crossing detector circuit that can detect train direction without relying on track polarity. chicochip
It comes with the light detection sensors that are placed between the rails, but I connected mine up using infrared sensors pointed across the track so ambient light has no effect on operation.
http://www.logicrailtech.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16219
cacole chicochipThis is certainly not the Achiles Heel of DCC, but I think some opportunity exists for someone to develop and market a crossing detector circuit that can detect train direction without relying on track polarity. chicochip That already exists -- it's called the Grade Crossing Pro from Logic Rail Technologies. It is not connected in any manner to the track and relies on the sensors to determine how the signals operate. Two sensors are placed on each side of the crossing, so direction of travel doesn't matter. It comes with the light detection sensors that are placed between the rails, but I connected mine up using infrared sensors pointed across the track so ambient light has no effect on operation. http://www.logicrailtech.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16219
chicochipThis is certainly not the Achiles Heel of DCC, but I think some opportunity exists for someone to develop and market a crossing detector circuit that can detect train direction without relying on track polarity. chicochip
Does the Grade Crossing Pro turn off the flashers after the crossing is clear? Or do they continue to flash until the train clears the most distant sensor? Also, does this circuit recognize when a train stops over the crossing, and backs away? If "yes" to questions 1 & 3, then you're absolutely correct....the circuit already exists.
Yes, it does both of those. The flashers turn off after the train clears the first sensor beyond the crossing, not the last. And if you stop and back up, it senses that and turns the crossing flashers off after a preset time interval. It will also control a Tortoise connected to crossing gates.
cacole Yes, it does both of those. The flashers turn off after the train clears the first sensor beyond the crossing, not the last. And if you stop and back up, it senses that and turns the crossing flashers off after a preset time interval. It will also control a Tortoise connected to crossing gates.
Very well. Clearly, you're circuit is the one!