OK,
We all are framilliar with the concept of #4, #6, #8 etc turnouts.
Most of us know that when a turnout is called #6 that means is six times as long as it is wide, or it moves 6*X inches along the mainline and turns-out X inches from the mainline.
Question: What determines X? That is to say, from centerline of the main, to centerline of the turned-out track, how far is that? In scale feet?
I hope I asked that correctly.
Jake1210 wrote:X = the distance between the centerlines. Say you have a #6 turnout and want to diverge 1 inch. You would have to go out 6 inches to achieve that. If you want to diverge 3 inches, you must go out 18 inches.
So what is the measure of X on a standard #6 turnout in HO?
I'm trying to make out the standards on the NMRA ( http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/rp12_6.html) but can't seem to make sense of it.
thanks
That differs depending on manufacturer. I believe an atlas #6 has a one inch divergance at the end of the turnout. So 2 of them can be put together and have a 2" center spacing. A turnout build exactly in a fast tracks jig (as in the rail is snipped to EXACTLY the end of the fixture) there is a 0.75" divergence. I would advise getting ahold of one of the turnouts you plan to use and measure the divergence.
Technically its the frog that determines the angle, the number of the switch. How far the track extends tangent beyond the frog is up to the "engineering" department or in case of pre-made switches, the commercial switch manufacturer.
Typically the distance is enough that when you connect several switches together you get at least some minimum or standard (for the manufacturer) distance between the tracks.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Don't look now, Brethren, but that X is - a multiplication sign!
For a #6 turnout, the distance between the track centerlines, multiplied by 6, then reduced by track gauge multiplied by six, is the distance between frog points for a crossover between them.
When drawing a track diagram, it is usual to simply draw centerlines and disregard the curvature of stock and closure rails. Drawn that way a #6 turnout will have a 12 inch run along either leg to achieve a 2 inch separation, but the points and curved rails will add a few inches to that length.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
NMRA 'RP's are recommended paractices. I have used 4 different pre-fab brands, I find them to be all different - so, are we getting what we think were getting, or just what we pay for?...
How many follow NMRA exactly?
'Fast Tracks', you want to join in?
Don Gibson wrote: NMRA 'RP's are recommended paractices. I have used 4 different pre-fab brands, I find them to be all different - so, are we getting what we think were getting, or just what we pay for?...How many follow NMRA exactly?'Fast Tracks', you want to join in?
Which is why it's always reccomended to know what brand track you will be using prior to finalizing the track geometry.....Think non standard compliance it's bad in HO? Come on over to "G"umby scale and get an edjukashun.
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
Jake1210 wrote:A turnout build exactly in a fast tracks jig (as in the rail is snipped to EXACTLY the end of the fixture) there is a 0.75" divergence.
That's good to know.
dehusman wrote: Technically its the frog that determines the angle, the number of the switch.
And the angle would be =aTan(1/n) where n=the number of the turnout so a #6 turnout aould be 9.462 degrees, a #4 would be 14 degrees, a #12 would be 4.76 degrees, etc.
WaxonWaxov wrote: Jake1210 wrote:A turnout build exactly in a fast tracks jig (as in the rail is snipped to EXACTLY the end of the fixture) there is a 0.75" divergence.That's good to know. dehusman wrote: Technically its the frog that determines the angle, the number of the switch.And the angle would be =aTan(1/n) where n=the number of the turnout so a #6 turnout aould be 9.462 degrees, a #4 would be 14 degrees, a #12 would be 4.76 degrees, etc.
My apologies, that measurement was wrong. That measurement is only accurate for their HOn3 turnout fixtures, going by their free turnout templates, there is a 1" divergence on the standard gauge turnouts.
That my be true but one popular international brand uses the same frog angle in all their same code turnouts, while others have had complaints such as "high" frogs, "wide" guard rails, etc.
Certain design or manufacturing compromises are made to reduce cost, or eliminate customer returns .'Precision' comes @ a higher cost where "good enough to sell" or ''staying on the track'' is the market watchword.
It seems 'switch kit' makers cater to a fussier clientel - Perhaps its gauging. Beginners don't buy, but deraiments disappear.
Jake1210 wrote: WaxonWaxov wrote: Jake1210 wrote:A turnout build exactly in a fast tracks jig (as in the rail is snipped to EXACTLY the end of the fixture) there is a 0.75" divergence.That's good to know. dehusman wrote: Technically its the frog that determines the angle, the number of the switch.And the angle would be =aTan(1/n) where n=the number of the turnout so a #6 turnout aould be 9.462 degrees, a #4 would be 14 degrees, a #12 would be 4.76 degrees, etc. My apologies, that measurement was wrong. That measurement is only accurate for their HOn3 turnout fixtures, going by their free turnout templates, there is a 1" divergence on the standard gauge turnouts.
1 inch... check.. so it's 1 inch for all # turn-outs from them?
Jake1210 wrote:Yep. And don't forget, you can alter the length of the diverging and through routes on a fasttracks turnout because you build it.
I alway's extend my rails out a few inches beyonf the fixture. Most of my mainline sepparation is 2", I just snip off however much rail to fit the install. The rail is straight after curving thru the turnout. If the rails are too far apart I just connect with flex track. I use a Tortoise for each turnout but daisy chain em to operate as one turnout in the case of crossovers. In fact if you buy a crossover jig you can use it to make regular turnouts with it, I'm told.
Jules
JulesB wrote: Jake1210 wrote:Yep. And don't forget, you can alter the length of the diverging and through routes on a fasttracks turnout because you build it.I alway's extend my rails out a few inches beyonf the fixture. Most of my mainline sepparation is 2", I just snip off however much rail to fit the install. The rail is straight after curving thru the turnout. If the rails are too far apart I just connect with flex track. I use a Tortoise for each turnout but daisy chain em to operate as one turnout in the case of crossovers. In fact if you buy a crossover jig you can use it to make regular turnouts with it, I'm told.Jules
And that is exatly why I plan to use FastTracks products on my layout. More versatility.
And for anyone who wants the website, it is handlaidtrack.com.
Jake1210 wrote: JulesB wrote: Jake1210 wrote:Yep. And don't forget, you can alter the length of the diverging and through routes on a fasttracks turnout because you build it.I alway's extend my rails out a few inches beyonf the fixture. Most of my mainline sepparation is 2", I just snip off however much rail to fit the install. The rail is straight after curving thru the turnout. If the rails are too far apart I just connect with flex track. I use a Tortoise for each turnout but daisy chain em to operate as one turnout in the case of crossovers. In fact if you buy a crossover jig you can use it to make regular turnouts with it, I'm told.Jules And that is exatly why I plan to use FastTracks products on my layout. More versatility.And for anyone who wants the website, it is handlaidtrack.com.
Oh yea, you can build all sorts of things with FastTracks: Turnouts of many idfferent sizes, cross-overs, crossings, etc.... all you need is TWO HUNDRED BUCKS for each different jig.
:)
I will probably buy the #6 jig from them as I figure I will use many #6 turn-outs. I will then probably be able to hand-lay turn-outs of differnt sizes from scratch.
Question is how will I throw them? of course tortoises are nice, but also pricey.
locoworks wrote:does the number refer to the 'chains' radius of the prototype??
I don't know what you're talking about.
A #6 turnout means that if you tak the distance the turnout 'turns-out' or diverges (measured centerline to centerline) then take that number and multiply it by six you get the lenght of the turnout from the points. At #4 turnout, you multiply by four, etc. The smaller the number the thighter the turn and the more unrealistic it becomes as well as difficult for longer locomotive to use.
WaxonWaxov wrote: A #6 turnout means that if you tak the distance the turnout 'turns-out' or diverges (measured centerline to centerline) then take that number and multiply it by six you get the lenght of the turnout from the points.
A #6 turnout means that if you tak the distance the turnout 'turns-out' or diverges (measured centerline to centerline) then take that number and multiply it by six you get the lenght of the turnout from the points.
No, I'm pretty sure that's not what it means. The turnout # refers to the frog only. A # 6 turnout frog diverges one unit for each six units of length. But the overall size of the turnout, real-life or model, is not determined by the frog #. Depending on the real-life situation, the lead (the legnth from the points to the frog) can have substantially varying lengths for the same frog number. In fact, this is one of the areas where nearly all model turnouts are substantially compressed from the prototype (and that includes the Fast Tracks jigs).
The same is true for one model manfuacturer's turnout vs. another. One only needs to look at turnouts from different manufacturers to see that some have different lengths from the points for the diverging leg for the same frog number. PECO turnouts (except for the new HO C83), for example, curve through the diverging leg and so they are very different from most other manufacturers.
If anyone is planning a layout, they are best served to use accurate templates or examples of the specific turnouts that they are planning to use to insure that everything will fit.
ByronModel RR Blog
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
#6 turnout -- Draw a straight line. Make a mark (A). Measure over 6 units and mark (II). Measure up 1 unit at a right angle and mark (3). (If you have room measure over 12, and up 2 -- more accurate). Connect marks A and 3. If you extend the line past 3 you have a straight, diverging line to guide your yard body or yard ladder track at a #6 angle. These are usually track center lines, but can be tie edge, under a rail, etc. But if NOT centered, always goes to the same side (left to left, etc). Point A has no consistant relation between brands to any point on a turnout. There is no relation between turnout number and track center spacing.
Phil
Timber Head Eastern Railroad "THE Railroad Through the Sierras"
Come on, guys. Don't make it so complicated. A number 6 switch has diverged 1 inch from straight 6 inches from the switch points.
Depending on the manufacturer there may be short sections of straight track, especially through the frog, or short sections of a tighter curve somewhere in the switch. Because these sections are so short they have little or no effect on the overall sharpness, or lack of sharpness, of the switch
The real use of the numbers is not so much to determine geometry as it is to make relative comparisons between turnouts of different numbers. A number 4 is short and sharp. It doesn't take much space but is restricted (usually) to shorter equipment. A number 8 or 10 is long and graceful. It takes quite a bit of space but every type of rolling stock and locomotive should pass through very smoothly.
I probably should have used the word turnout instead of switch throughout.
Gene Green
the old sarge wrote: Come on, guys. Don't make it so complicated. A number 6 switch has diverged 1 inch from straight 6 inches from the switch points.
That is simpler, but not correct. As stated above, the frog number refers to the frog only. Distance to the points can vary substantially for switches of the same frog number.