Walthers replacements policy

[M&PWJOHN]

How many modelery keep the sales slips/receipts on all their purchases.  I am having problems with the Proto 2000 axle gears, and now they want the sales slips.    Please let me know.  If most modelers don't have a ten year file of sales slips on hand, I will assume that this is just a walthers rip off?

[MisterBeasley]

That's certainly not the experience I had.  I ordered a couple of out-of-production closeout P2K GP-9's from M.B. Klein.  One of them arrived with a cracked axle.  At that point, Walthers had just acquired Life-Like.  After a few months while they reconfigured the whole parts supply chain for P2K, they sent me 2 sets of axles, just for asking.  And I didn't even buy them from Walthers!

My guess is, if you tell them you don't have the slips, but you can give them a reasonable guess of when you bought them, they will send you a set of axles.

[cacole]

Have you telephoned Walthers and told them about the problem, or are you trying to rely on e-mail.  Telephone calls get better results.  The number you need to call is their Customer Service at 1-800-4-TRAINS, and not their Terminal Hobby Shop order line.

Everything I have read for the past year or so iindicates that Walthers will send you replacement axles for Proto 1000 or Proto 2000 locomotives free.

[shawnee]

I find Walthers to have the best service in this business, bar none.  They're nice people who take care of their customers well.  It's not unreasonable to ask for a sales receipt or some kind of documentation of purchase if replacing an item.

[jsoderq]

According to what was posted on another site, Walthers has given away more gear sets that all the GP locos Llifelike ever sold. People have been hoarding them for locos they don't even own. Don't think you can blame Walthers for the greed of others.

[Randall_Roberts]

According to what was posted on another site, Walthers has given away more gear sets that all the GP locos Llifelike ever sold. People have been hoarding them for locos they don't even own. Don't think you can blame Walthers for the greed of others.

I read a similar thread.  I didn't see anything about Walthers having given away more gear sets that all the GP locos Llifelike ever sold, but the opening post of the thread said that the person had been told by Walthers that they weren't giving out any more of them.

What I find truly depressing is that the only model train sets in Toys 'R Us last time I looked were all LifeLike.  How can we get kids excited about model railroading with poor quality products. 

[desertdog]

The P2k cracked gear problem has been way over-blown.  It applied to four-axle locomotives produced several years ago.  Period.  P2k is a quality product.  Life-Like may be another story.

John Timm

 

 

[selector]

There were two issues that I know about, with the last that I will mention pertaining to me personally: the first was cracked gears, and I don't know much about either Life Like or Walthers' practices in that regard, and the traction tires on some smaller switchers that really reduced electic pick-up to something laughable. In my case, a call to Walthers, the new owners, netted me a replacement metal tire for free.  I understand that they have now clamped down and the good will has been used up.

In any such undertaking, there should be a time when the hand goes up and the beneficence or obligation comes to an end.  However, it might have been a good investment in good will to have publicized a final date in a couple of the magazines.

-Crandell

[Dallas Model Works]

Sadly, I do have a shoe box full of model rwy receipts.

I don't know why I do it. I just do.

My name is Craig and I am a receipt keeper.

There ... I feel better now.

 

[7j43k]

I've heard that the Athearn part #60024 is a direct replacement.  Please correct me if this is wrong.  I decided to go the simple route and ordered a bunch.  They're about $2 for 6.  I suppose one could argue that Walthers "oughta" give out replacements, but my time's a little more valuable.

 

Ed

[Randall_Roberts]

I've heard that the Athearn part #60024 is a direct replacement.  Please correct me if this is wrong.  I decided to go the simple route and ordered a bunch.  They're about $2 for 6.  I suppose one could argue that Walthers "oughta" give out replacements, but my time's a little more valuable.

Well said.  I'm just curious, what were the shipping charges on that $2 order?  I wanted to make a $2 order from Kato's parts dept. a while back.  But the shipping was $10, so I felt like I had to buy something else.  I wound up buying a locomotive kit, and spent about $100 total. 

[Don Gibson]

Everything has a life - including you. (Nothing is forever). Sorry.

AXLE GEARS are cheap. Have you tried getting free gears from Athearn, or anyone else?

Anything bought NEW has a warrantee & a duration. Only ONE supplier has a 'lifetime' warrantee (or needs to) - out of how many manufacturers?

Oh, someone else got free gears, and you didn't?

I own 5 P2K Geeps that havent been run in 3+ years, and will probably need to get replacements. The shipping will also probably be higher than the gears.

Boo hoo!

I will assume that this is just a walthers rip off?

  And just how old is your product?

[jeffrey-wimberly]

The P2k cracked gear problem has been way over-blown.  It applied to four-axle locomotives produced several years ago.  Period.  P2k is a quality product.  Life-Like may be another story.

John Timm

Not just 4 axle units. I have a Proto 2000 E6-A (older model with opening doors) that had a cracked axle gear right out of the box. Also, the main gear in the truck was missing two teeth. I told Walther's what the problem was, registered the unit online so it was under warranty and they sent me a new power truck for it.

[don7]

The P2k cracked gear problem has been way over-blown.  It applied to four-axle locomotives produced several years ago.  Period.  P2k is a quality product.  Life-Like may be another story.

John Timm

 

 

Not so, I have several Proto PA engines with the 6 axle trucks that have cracked gear problems.

One unit right out of the box and the other several months after running. Walthers rep was adamant that the receipts needed to accompany the units.

End of story, no more Proto units only BLI, Intermountain and Spectrum from now on.

 

 

[Heavy J611]

I just called them yesterday and they would not send me a replacement without the sales slip. They will sale me a pair for $3.00.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Now we know. The walk in the sun is over.

[MILW Trains]

Good morning everyone,

As many of you know, questions about Walthers replacement policy for PROTO 2000 wheelsets appeared several months ago on another forum. We though it would be a good idea to share that oriignal post with members of the Model Railroader forum, as it answers many of the questions that came up in earlier messages within this thread.

Lance A, Burton
Senior Writer, Wm. K. Walthers, Inc.


Good afternoon everyone,

First, thanks to everyone who has responded or has taken the time to read this post. We felt it best to answer your questions about the wheel exchange policy here, where everyone can share this information.

Rest assured we’re honoring the terms found on your warranty card for brand-new products; older stock made before 2005 comes with the original Life-Like Limited Lifetime Warranty, while newer Walthers products include a Limited One (1) Year Warranty.

Both cards clearly state:

Warranty terms apply only to the original purchaser/owner

Proof of purchase must be provided

There’s a fee for shipping and handling — Life-Like cards indicate that items returned within 90 days of the original date of purchase are not charged the $5.00 handling fee

Nothing has changed with the warranty, but we have reached a point where we have to administer it the way it was intended.

So, what is a brand-new product? Some dealers still have new-in-the-box, never sold, Life-Like products from earlier production runs, even though some engines were produced nearly 20 years ago! Same is true for Walthers/Life-Like engines made since the 2005 purchase. We’ll honor the warranty that came with your new engine, following the terms on the card. And remember, you may also be protected by your dealer’s return policy if a new item turns out to be defective, so ask before you buy. Many dealers have test tracks too.

But it’s no secret that there’s a huge secondary market for used Life-Like products — the original post only states “…I have bought several Life-Like Proto 2000 undecorated locomotives lately…” without indicating from whom or where (a later post states the items were purchased from a dealer via an on-line auction) or if these were sold as new or used items.

Please note that engines with defective axles were produced by Life-Like before Walthers purchased the company in August of 2005 — cracked gears occurred only on engines with four-axle trucks produced before mid-May of 2001, when the defect was corrected.

There’s no issue with a new engine purchased from any Walthers dealer whether in the store, at a show or from an on-line auction — because you have a warranty card, and a receipt/proof of purchase.

But this changes if you buy from another modeler or a dealer who is selling a pre-owned unit, which is often the case at shows and on-line. Even if the item appears to be new-in-the-box and includes a warranty card, you’re not the original owner. Neither Life-Like’s nor Walthers warranty can be transferred. And no, that’s not just our policy it’s a standard practice for most manufactured goods from appliances to automobiles.

Shortly after we bought Life-Like, we started receiving calls for replacement wheelsets and began looking at how we could best handle the situation.

Bill Walthers started this company and made it successful because he took the time to help other modelers, no matter how big or small their problems — we set great store by that tradition of service, and there was never any question if we would honor the Life-Like warranty. The minute replacement wheels arrived in Milwaukee, they were being mailed out — and still are.

Now at the time, sending out wheels for free without following the terms of the warranty to the letter was the fastest way to help folks who found they had a defective engine. It streamlined the process so we could handle requests faster, you got your engine running sooner— everyone came out a winner.

Far and away the majority of requests were reasonable, usually parts to fix one or two locos. A few folks have big fleets (thanks for your support – we appreciate it!) and we helped them out too. Unfortunately once word gets out you can get something for nothing, it may result in unintended consequences that can ruin it for everyone.

Some people wanted hundreds of wheels “just in case." We also heard of people selling off their extra free wheelsets. Others were using free sets to rework other brands of engines (which by the way, likely voided any warranty on those products). And simply replacing wheelsets may hide or compound other problems in a used engine.

As a result we had to level the playing field as of March 1, 2008. A one-for-one exchange indicates that you’ve checked and found a real problem with a Life-Like product. It also gives everyone an exact number of wheels that are required so modelers who really need wheels can get them without long delays. And, we destroy those defective wheelsets, taking them off the market for good. Proof of purchase indicates a legitimate repair for a new product, and we’re more than happy to keep our word as stated in the terms of your warranty. And most importantly this gives us data we can track on what types, as well as the age of the engines that have a problem.

Now if you still need wheelsets, please give us a call. We don’t bite. Really. We’re ready to help, but all we ask is a little cooperation.

On behalf of everyone at Walthers, thanks for listening.

Lance A. Burton
Senior Writer, Wm. K. Walthers, Inc.

[cacole]

To answer an earlier question, yes, the Athearn 60024 gears are a direct replacement for the LifeLike gears, and have never had a problem with cracking like the LifeLike product.

Someone allegedly in the know wrote here last year that the LifeLike gears had too small a diameter axle opening, which is why they cracked so readily.  Newer P2K products have supposedly solved that problem.

 

[Lillen]

Sadly, I do have a shoe box full of model rwy receipts.

I don't know why I do it. I just do.

My name is Craig and I am a receipt keeper.

There ... I feel better now.

 

 

Maybe we should for a club or something. Are we in any danger from this unhealthy practice?

 

I save all my receipts to. One good reason is for warranty, another is insurance reasons in case of fire or theft. Trying to get replacement gears for 3$ is the least of concerns in my mind. Telling the insurance company that I have all those engines and that they are worth XXX amounts of dollars with no proofs except my good word. Now that is a concern.

 

That Walthers are just doing what any company does is not a problem. I once had an order lost worth over 1000$. They asked me to wait a few extra weeks more then what they initially sad but then they promptly sent out a brand new box worth of stuff. So I have no complaint what so ever against them.

 

Are we surprised that people take advantage of something when it's free. I can see a lot of people sitting there with a genuine broken gear but having 6 of the same kind of engines. If I'm gonna pay perhaps 10$ for shipping I'll might just as well say that it's not one broken but several "just in case". People will abuse systems if they are open to abuse. It's nothing to be surprised about.

 

Magnus

[Capt. Grimek]

I'm on a 12 step program for receipt collecting:
l. Keep the original receipt on a nail in the railroad room.
2.Keep a 2nd copy for insurance purposes
3. Move the nail pile when nail is full.
4. find a place to put the old pile in a new location
5. Explain again to my wife why I have so much paper accumulating.
6. Find the original receipt in the case of a return/repair.
7. Remember it's not still on "the nail" but in the new location.
8. Try to remember where the new location IS. (somewhere safe so I can find it readily).
9. Admit I'm going gradually senile and go to the 2nd copy (insurance pile).
10. Make a photo copy or scan of the 2nd copy to become a 3rd copy.
11. Consider throwing away receipts for things long out of warantee. Nah, ya never know...
12. Buy something new because if I don't I'll forget the other 11 steps!

My name is Capt. Grimek and I'm a receipt over and under achiever.

PS I appreciate Walther's participation and response here. Sound entirely reasonable to me. Thanks.