Hey gang.
Can someone tell me what year Southern Pacific came out with their black widow paint scheme. I did a search, and though I came up with a lot of interesting info, it didn't answer my primary question...
Thanks in advance for any help with this.
Tracklayer
According to Microscale, it was 1947.
Microscale Set 87-201
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
ericsp wrote: According to Microscale, it was 1947.Microscale Set 87-201
Thanks ericsp. That sounds about right from what I can gather. Not that Hollywood pays a whole lot of attention to details, but in the movie Bad Day At Black Rock, Spencer Tracy rides into town on a train with Day Light cars being pulled by a Southern Pacific F-7 A&B black widow which was supposed to be set in the late 1940s after WWII.
Again, thanks.
Tracklayer--
The film is not far off (though the train was filmed on the Lone Pine branch, part of what was originally called the "Jawbone" on the SP, running from Mojave to Lone Pine). Black Widow F's used to pull the "San Joaquin Daylight" between Bakersfield and LA when the Tehachapi's were dieselized. The Black Widow was the original SP scheme for their Freight F's. 1947 sounds just about right (SP was not as fast to dieselize as some other western railroads such as Western Pacific and Santa Fe).
That's a pretty cool scene at the beginning of the film, isn't it? In fact, that's a pretty cool film all the way around.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
twhite wrote: Tracklayer--The film is not far off (though the train was filmed on the Lone Pine branch, part of what was originally called the "Jawbone" on the SP, running from Mojave to Lone Pine). Black Widow F's used to pull the "San Joaquin Daylight" between Bakersfield and LA when the Tehachapi's were dieselized. The Black Widow was the original SP scheme for their Freight F's. 1947 sounds just about right (SP was not as fast to dieselize as some other western railroads such as Western Pacific and Santa Fe). That's a pretty cool scene at the beginning of the film, isn't it? In fact, that's a pretty cool film all the way around. Tom
Hi Tom. It's been a little while.
Yeah. I'm a Bad Day At Black Rock fan, have been since I was a kid. In fact I watch it at least once a year. The majority of movies I own and watch the most are pre 1970. In my opinion that's back when they made "real" movies...
The Black Widow scheme was chosen for freight F-units when they began arriving in 1947. The SP decided in 1953 that roadswitchers should also be painted in that scheme. (The early roadswitchers like the EMD SD7 and the Baldwins originally wore the switcher-like Tiger Stripe scheme.) Source: Joseph Strapac's Southern Pacific Diesel Locomotive Compendium, Volume 1.
Mark
markpierce wrote: The Black Widow scheme was chosen for freight F-units when they began arriving in 1947. The SP decided in 1953 that roadswitchers should also be painted in that scheme. (The early roadswitchers like the EMD SD7 and the Baldwins originally wore the switcher-like Tiger Stripe scheme.) Source: Joseph Strapac's Southern Pacific Diesel Locomotive Compendium, Volume 1.Mark
Addendum: The SD7s and RSD-5s were quickly repainted upon the 1953 decision. The Baldwin roadswitchers were repainted at a slower pace. In 1958, the SP introduced new paint schemes to replace Black Widow.
According to Jim Boyd's Southern Pacific In Color, Volume 2: Black Daylights -- Black Widows, the last locomotive delivered in Black Widow was SP's RS11 #5865 in August 1959.
Tracklayer wrote: .....That sounds about right from what I can gather. Not that Hollywood pays a whole lot of attention to details, but in the movie Bad Day At Black Rock, Spencer Tracy rides into town on a train with Day Light cars being pulled by a Southern Pacific F-7 A&B black widow which was supposed to be set in the late 1940s after WWII.Again, thanks.Tracklayer
.....That sounds about right from what I can gather. Not that Hollywood pays a whole lot of attention to details, but in the movie Bad Day At Black Rock, Spencer Tracy rides into town on a train with Day Light cars being pulled by a Southern Pacific F-7 A&B black widow which was supposed to be set in the late 1940s after WWII.
The train was pulled by F3A #6151 (with an F?B) which began operating 11/30/1948, three years after the time the story took place (1945). It was originally numbered 6125A (as part of a four-engine set) and never had front-end MU installed. So, with Black Widow paint not showing up until 1947 and the even later delivery and renumbering of the locomotive, there are some anachronisms here. The number of the movie train was X6151, so it was "modeled" as an "extra", not scheduled train. Besides, the Daylight trains didn't operate on the Jawbone branch. Nevertheless, the train scenes are wondrous.
The movie town was built adjacent to SP's station at Lone Pine, at the south end of Owens Valley, and there are some scenes filmed at nearby Alabama Hills (featured in hundreds of movies) and the Mojave desert. I believe the distant mountains in many scenes are the southern end of the White Mountains, east and parallel of the Sierra Nevada range (the Owens Valley lies between them), and nearly as high.
Mark, sometime rivet counter
twhite wrote: The film is not far off (though the train was filmed on the Lone Pine branch, part of what was originally called the "Jawbone" on the SP, running from Mojave to Lone Pine). Black Widow F's used to pull the "San Joaquin Daylight" between Bakersfield and LA when the Tehachapi's were dieselized. The Black Widow was the original SP scheme for their Freight F's. 1947 sounds just about right (SP was not as fast to dieselize as some other western railroads such as Western Pacific and Santa Fe). Tom
I lived within sight of the mainline throught the San Fernado Valley during that time. As I recall both Daylights were asigned double headed GS 4-8-4's in Daylight dress. The Coast Daylight dieselized first using Alco PA's in Daylight colors, the San Joaquin Daylight dieselized later also with Alco PA's in Daylight scheme.
Rob
Tracklayer wrote: ericsp wrote: According to Microscale, it was 1947.Microscale Set 87-201Thanks ericsp. That sounds about right from what I can gather. Not that Hollywood pays a whole lot of attention to details, but in the movie Bad Day At Black Rock, Spencer Tracy rides into town on a train with Day Light cars being pulled by a Southern Pacific F-7 A&B black widow which was supposed to be set in the late 1940s after WWII.Again, thanks.Tracklayer
G.Gauge--
SP used all of the locos you mentioned on the "San Joaquin". However, when I came home from basic training in 1962 and caught the San Joaquin from LA to Stockton and the connection to Sacramento, they were pulled by a four-unit Black Widow set of F's. Evidently SP pullled the train with whatever was handy at the time.
markpierce wrote: The movie town was built adjacent to SP's station at Lone Pine, at the south end of Owens Valley, and there are some scenes filmed at nearby Alabama Hills (featured in hundreds of movies) and the Mojave desert. I believe the distant mountains in many scenes are the southern end of the White Mountains, east and parallel of the Sierra Nevada range (the Owens Valley lies between them), and nearly as high.
Addendum: I looked at the movie again. In addition to the White Mountains, there are also some scenes showing part of the Sierra Nevada (which are snow-tipped and in the area of Mt. Whitney) in views from the town looking toward the railroad tracks (looking west)....... The lead locomotive is definitely an F3 if you believe Joe Strapac's Southern Pacific Diesel Locomotive Compendium, Volume 1.