Ballasting

[robert sylvester]

  I know this is a topic that is pounded a lot, although I actually like this part of the hobby, it relaxes me.  I have tried many products from Woodland scenics to High Ball, you name it I've used it. I like to build more than a 12 X 12 foot layout.  The last four have ranged from 20X24 feet to the latest which is 30X32 feet.  By the was they are not square these have been shelf layout that are nice to run and great to build.

When it comes to ballasting it can get expensive buying all that ballast in a bag.  So, I started looking.  Now I know this may not be new but I am telling you it has saved me a significant amount of money.  One of the big box companies had a sale on their twenty pound bags of sand box sand, $3.99, the real fine kind almost white.

Then another big box store had its powered tempra paints on sale for about $5.00.  I take my new found stuff and starting blending and voila, the powered tempra is in white , black and a burnt red, a great rust color.  I can mix these powders in different shades with the sand and make a bunch of coffee cans full of cheap ballast for a total of $19.00, instead of $2.00-$4.00 per bag and of course the cost of the shaker ballasts is even higher.  One thing you might have to do is run a magnet through the sand to make sure it's clean.  By the way the New England and Berkshire uses the same sand with swimming pool filter powder to make grey ground cover. and they also use the sand for ballasting projects.

The colored sand mixture I make goes a long way and will ballast a lot of track.  I can also use it for other purposes.  It is held down with watered down white glue and alcohol.

Just thought some of the folks would like to know this, it is a lot less expensive.

Rob Sylvester

Yardmaster/WTRR 

[twhite]

Rob--

I've heard about using sand for ballast before.  The only thing that would worry me about using sand is that there may be tiny magnetic particles in it that could possibly work itself into the locomotive motors.  Someone else on the Forum--some time ago--tested regular sand with a magnet and found out that there were thousands of tiny iron pyrite particles adhering to the magnet. 

Possibly 'sandbox' sand has been refined, though.  But I agree with you, ballasting a layout with commercial ballast (like WS) can get to be a really EXPENSIVE proposition!

Tom

[mike_ruby]

I use builder's sharp sand, which I put through a kitchen sieve, and two tea strainers. This gives me large stones (larger than 1', HO sizes), small stones less than 1', ballast (about 3"- 4") and sand. I get about 6Kg (13 pounds) of ballast from a 25Kg (55 pound) bag. The stones are great for rubble and fill, and the sand for yard tracks. I've found that I can stain it to a darker colour once laid.
It works out very cheap, but does take a few evenings of sieving. Plus you may need to dry it before sieving, I place some on an old baking tray and leave in the sun and do the bag over a few weeks.

Mike Ruby

[loathar]

  I know this is a topic that is pounded a lot, although I actually like this part of the hobby, it relaxes me. 

Have you sought professional psychiatric help? (I'd rather chew on tinfoil)

Doesn't the powdered paint get all over the place when you wet/glue it?

[lvanhen]

Have you looked in your local pet supply store lately?  They sell aquarium sand in dozens of colors, as well as gravel in colors & sizes suitable for HO or even O - maybe not N.  My

[robert sylvester]

 

Loathar:  Good question, but to answer your question, it's no.  I mix the colors first with the sand.  I have run a magnet through it with several passes and no flecks of any kind.  After mixing the sand and color in the new plastic coffee cans I then apply, with a spoon the collored ballast to the track and use a paint brush to spread the ballast.  Then I use straight rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle and soak the colored sand. after that I apply the white glue mixture without any problems.  In a few day it set up well.

 

 

 

[robert sylvester]

 

Actually I have gone to Pet Co. most of the colors were too shiny, have you found any that are dull or does the stone dull over time.  Rob

[jacon12]

I thought I must have read that first line wrong.  I'm with Lothar on this one, except add some bamboo splinters under the finger nails to the mouthful of tin foil and I'm good to go.

You wouldn't happen to have some pictures of the sand ballast on the layout , would you?

JaRRell 

[RRTrainman]

I have gone to to my local gavel pit to collect sand for ballast with very good results.  With permission of course I have a unliminited supply of ballast and I have found very little of the iron in it.  After separating the grade I need for ballast it has very little iron in it.  I would check it to see if your sand has it in your area my area has more silica than iron.

[superbe]

Rob, Please excuse the digression from your original theme. Since you mentioned coffee cans, I started wondering if anyone has found a use for gound coffee??

Bob

[Rotorranch]

Rob, Please excuse the digression from your original theme. Since you mentioned coffee cans, I started wondering if anyone has found a use for gound coffee??

Bob

Some folks like it in the morning, with hot water.

Rotor

[corsair7]

Rob, Please excuse the digression from your original theme. Since you mentioned coffee cans, I started wondering if anyone has found a use for gound coffee??

Bob

Some folks like it in the morning, with hot water.

Rotor

Well, it certainly beats the smell of gunpowder.

Irv

[superbe]

Hey Rotor,

I read your reply just before breakfast and I gotta tell you that your suggestion sure beats sprinkling it on top of cereal. Some day maybe I'll learn to read the instructions first. And as for the smell, it sure beats the empty beer cans I use to weigh my track down while the caulk is drying.

Bob

 

[robert sylvester]

JaRRell:

 Before I go to work I am up early in the morning to work on my tracks with this ballast.  This morning I mixed another batch and spread it over existing ballast and track.  Following that I used the alcohol to wet it down then spread the glue with good results.  The magnet picked up no iron, thus far the sand in the bag from the big box store has been very clean. In the past I have also used the dust that tires grind up on the road and I again collect it in coffee cans.  That has to be strained  several sifters, depending on the size gravel you want, and yes the magnet does pick up a lot of metallic bits from the street dust.  I have used this system since 1994 when I build my fourth large layout.  The engines still run fine, in fact I have not purchaed any new engines in over seven years, wish I could.

I will take pictures of the ballast work, then, if I can figure out how to post it on this forum I will do so.  I have been wanting to post pix of my layout and see if I can get feedback.  By the way, I am not sure what year it was but an author in Model Railroader did describe in his article how he used coffe grinds for ballast as well as ground cover on his layout.  That is one layout that would smell good on the morning.  I liked the line on the forum that when asked how to use coffee, "you mix it with hot water".

Rob Sylvester

Yard Master (?) WTRR

[Midnight Railroader]

I thought I must have read that first line wrong.  I'm with Lothar on this one, except add some bamboo splinters under the finger nails to the mouthful of tin foil and I'm good to go.

You wouldn't happen to have some pictures of the sand ballast on the layout , would you?

JaRRell 

You guys are nuts, ballasting is fun.

 I enoy doing it and the results I get are some of my best model-work.

 

[Scarpia]

I applaud your efforts at coming up with other solutions (for example I'm still exploring good and inexpensive tree alternatives that don't require me to wrap and paint trunks), especially if it's needed for a specific look. I'm all for saving money, whether in the hobby or not, but I wonder if you're really saving that much when time comes into play.

I've used 2/3rds of a large Woodland Scenics shaker bottle for my 4x8 layout, which at $8 a jar is probably around $6. Seeing as I have about 15 pieces of flex track and 10 switches or so, (approx 54 feet) I'm going to estimate a bottle would cover around 80 linear feet of track. Roughly, that's $.10 a foot for ballast. In my mind, that's worth the expense, as I can spend my time doing other things I enjoy.

I would love to see pictures of the results!

 

 

[Dean-58]

Hey Rotor,

I read your reply just before breakfast and I gotta tell you that your suggestion sure beats sprinkling it on top of cereal. Some day maybe I'll learn to read the instructions first. And as for the smell, it sure beats the empty beer cans I use to weigh my track down while the caulk is drying.

Bob

 

Many years ago, the owner of our favorite hobby shop, Gene Wiesflog, of the Hobby Hut, in Wauwatosa, WI, passed on a motto my brother and I thought was particularly apt for model railroaders: "If all else fails, read the directions."

[PA&ERR]

Rob, Please excuse the digression from your original theme. Since you mentioned coffee cans, I started wondering if anyone has found a use for gound coffee??

Bob

Chuck Hitchcock (of ATSF Argentine Division/Argentine Industral District fame) said that he used it to color some of the ground cover areas of his original layout.

-George

[robert sylvester]

Scarpia:

Thus far I have filled seven large coffee cans with the tempra paint powder and sand mixture and four WS dispensers,(still have a 1/4 bag full of sand). The price is still on the WS plastic dispensers, in which I bought some grey mixed ballast at Hobby L.  The total for the four WS plastic containers was just over $24.00. The Bag of sand, again just over $3.00, twenty pounds; and the tempra paint ($5.95), three jars was around $21-22.00; and all of that really fills a lot of cans and containers.  So, for my money it goes a long way and besides, it doesn't take that long to mix and strain, and for me it's fun and relaxing at 4 A.M. with my coffee.

Like I said, ballasting and scene making are an enjoyable part of the hobby, for me; that I like doing.  I love when it all comes together with the structures, people, and all of the detail.  Ballasting and working with ground cover can truly make a scene.  I admire good track work, especially when it looks real.  I love getiing down low enough along the tracks and watch beautiful passenger cars pass by, especially with the diaphragms, and, as they pass by I imagine myself walking from car to car.

I have some digital pix of the WTRR, how do I get them up on the forum to post them?

Rob, WTRR

[mike_ruby]

Scarpia:

Thus far I have filled seven large coffee cans with the tempra paint powder and sand mixture and four WS dispensers,(still have a 1/4 bag full of sand). The price is still on the WS plastic dispensers, in which I bought some grey mixed ballast at Hobby L.  The total for the four WS plastic containers was just over $24.00. The Bag of sand, again just over $3.00, twenty pounds; and the tempra paint ($5.95), three jars was around $21-22.00; and all of that really fills a lot of cans and containers.  So, for my money it goes a long way and besides, it doesn't take that long to mix and strain, and for me it's fun and relaxing at 4 A.M. with my coffee.

Like I said, ballasting and scene making are an enjoyable part of the hobby, for me; that I like doing.  I love when it all comes together with the structures, people, and all of the detail.  Ballasting and working with ground cover can truly make a scene.  I admire good track work, especially when it looks real.  I love getiing down low enough along the tracks and watch beautiful passenger cars pass by, especially with the diaphragms, and, as they pass by I imagine myself walking from car to car.

I have some digital pix of the WTRR, how do I get them up on the forum to post them?

Rob, WTRR

You need to first put your photos on a photo sharing site, such as Photobucket.com or Fotopic.net (you will need to start an account, but for this sort of use it is free). From there you copy IMG address for the required photo (under the photo on Photobucket), and insert it into your post. Click preview and you should see your post with the photo, to check it before posting.

Here is one of my layouts, the ballast is bought granite, as you can see the company are a bit stingy on laying ballast. The fill is made from stones sifted out from when I was producing dirt for the layout.




Mike Ruby

[Blue Flamer]

Hey Rotor,

I read your reply just before breakfast and I gotta tell you that your suggestion sure beats sprinkling it on top of cereal. Some day maybe I'll learn to read the instructions first. And as for the smell, it sure beats the empty beer cans I use to weigh my track down while the caulk is drying.

Bob

 

I would presume that the EMPTY beer cans would work great for the ups and downs on the Roller Coaster rides that you must be modeling.

Blue Flamer. 

[Rotorranch]

Hey Rotor,

I read your reply just before breakfast and I gotta tell you that your suggestion sure beats sprinkling it on top of cereal. Some day maybe I'll learn to read the instructions first. And as for the smell, it sure beats the empty beer cans I use to weigh my track down while the caulk is drying.

Bob

 

I would presume that the EMPTY beer cans would work great for the ups and downs on the Roller Coaster rides that you must be modeling.

Blue Flamer. 

Yeah, I was kinda thinking the full ones would work better for holding track in place...and the empty ones could lead to some less than perfect track work!

I can't seem to keep full ones around, though.

Rotor

[Rotorranch]

Rob, Please excuse the digression from your original theme. Since you mentioned coffee cans, I started wondering if anyone has found a use for gound coffee??

Bob

Some folks like it in the morning, with hot water.

Rotor

Well, it certainly beats the smell of gunpowder.

Irv

I like the smell of smokeless powder. Heck, I even like black powder, too!

Rotor

[robert sylvester]

Mike:

Thank you, I will give it a try.

Rob

[R. T. POTEET]

. . . . . . . . . . I actually like this part of the hobby, it relaxes me . . . . . . . . . .

Take two aspirin and call me in the morning!

Ballasting track is, to me, one of the most tedious - in fact, with the possible exception of making trees, it is probably the most tedious - of all model railroad construction operations but . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . but, as tedious as it might be, it has to be done!

I too have labored over the expense of ballast and the space I have had available for my layouts have not been anywhere near as large as your posting indicates you have had available to you. Nevertheless, it can still be a substantial expense when measured against other costs associated with trackwork/scenery construction of our model pike.

In my HO-Scale days and on my first couple of N-Scale layouts I used straight-from-the package ballast from various manufactures. I didn't pay a heckuva lot of attention to rock size and when I was using Code 80 track it didn't really matter too much - the track was so horribly oversize that the oversize ballast was not readily noticable. That changed when I shifted to Rail Craft Code 55 because that oversized ballast now assumed the mantle of a hefty lady in a string bikini. I shifted to using a Highball Products (labeled at least) dark gray N-Scale ballast which looked considerably better. I could have quit there but instead I went out and acquired a 3 buck gee-yard-sales-are-terrific blender; I then beat up a bag of this Highball Products (labeled at least) N-Scale ballast in it and then filtered this through a very fine screen which rendered a ballast the consistancy of sand.

At this stage of the game I fell into a benevolence; an acquaintance of mine was relocating back to whence he had come and - I might mention here that there was a snowshovel in his future - was leaving model railroading to return to the construction of model ships. He gave me about two and a half pounds of Highball Products HO-Scale light gray ballast. I beat a pound of this up in my blender, purchased a package of Highball Products black N-Scale ballast, beat that up in my blender, strained it, blended everything together and laid it on an length of mainline adjacent to where my track had been ballasted with straight-from-the-package dark gray ballast. The hue was enough different that it gives the visual effect of a length of mainline ballasted with gravel from different quarries.

Unfortunately I have since run out of this HO-Scale light gray ballast. On the next couple of layouts I mixed Highball light gray and Highball black but the price had gone up considerably since my last purchases and so, on my last layout (1999) I decided to try something different.

I went out to one of these dry watercourses that thread their way through the Sonoran desert and loaded up with a couple of buckets of 'sand'; I ran a measure of this through another of those gee-yard-sales-are-terrific blenders and then strained this through a graduated sequence of filters. The finest strain rendered a sand texture; the largest of this was too big for ballast so I ran it back through my blender and then restrained with the smallest of my three screens. The strains from the intermediate screens I use as talus and other things for larger rockwork. I think my ballast measures down to a maximum of about three inches.

All, however, was not well in Oz; the rock acquired on my trip to the desert renders a sand white-orangish color which I was unhappy with so I made a trip to my local art supply house and acquired some black tempura paint which I mixed in and rendered to an acceptable color. I might just go through this same process on my next layout. My sand was free but gasoline was considerably cheaper in those heady days and before I do this again I will have to give some consideration to expense. Commercial sand would be fine, I suppose, - I have been advised that playground sand or concrete sand is acceptable as casting sand which has to be very fine - but this sand has to be purchased in such large quantities that I'm not quite sure of the economies of such a purchase.

I talked in a previous posting about bringing back a couple of buckets of basalt from the traps in Eastern Idaho but I was advised that this needed to be used with caution because this black basalt sand can render considerable iron content. My intention here was to mix this basalt sand with my desert sand; to avoid any type of problems with the iron content of basalt I would have to insure that all my ballast was firmly affixed. Probably I would run a strong magnet over my track work to insure that I had removed as much iron from the ballast as possible. I have a (rhetorical) question about this: is this really worth it.

[Autobus Prime]

Rob, Please excuse the digression from your original theme. Since you mentioned coffee cans, I started wondering if anyone has found a use for ground coffee??

Bob

sb:

As a teenager, I read about scenic use of coffee grounds in a very old book, and decided to try using them as dirt. Soon after, I discovered that my field was growing a fine white mold that looked somewhat like tiny white flowers, all over the place. I did not use coffee for that purpose again.

(It was also in those days that I discovered that papier-mache made with homemade flour-water paste tended to result in strange-smelling sourdough mountains, and that dry spaghetti proved oddly mobile when used to make porch pillars in an occasionally damp basement. Not good.)