EVERYBODY:
KADEE makes an AFTERMARKET product. They have ALWAYS made an aftermarket product.
They have CHOSEN to remain an aftermarket product, rather than go OEM.
1, We ALL have a CHOICE - to use what comes free, or buy a Kadee. (ONLY InterMountain COMES WITH the KD #5).
YOUR CHOICE. What is wrong with that?
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Aren't the newer proto couplers actually Kadees?
Anyways, I use kadees, and get then when I can. (I'm out, so a few cars have mchenerys or other clones.)
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
Don Gibson wrote: 1, We ALL have a CHOICE - to use what comes free, or buy a Kadee. (ONLY InterMountain COMES WITH the KD #5).
Is it really free? What % of the price do you pay for the product goes to the coupler? The question comes down to Are people willing to pay X2 or more as much for an after market product that may be installed incorrectly, they could buy cheaper themselves, install themselves and to their liking. Surly someone would complain that they would rather have scale size couplers not the #5 type etc. The biggest problem I have is with manufactures with RTR products only who install parts wrong and glue the coupler box lids on making it serious surgery to change out the POS coupler for one of quality.
Once upon a time, during the great debate between Mantua and Baker automatics and several non-interchangeable brands of dummies, many car kits came without couplers, leaving the choice (and expense) of adding same to the individual modeler.
Then two new entries arrived on the scene. One arrived with little fanfare, was metal, virtually indestructable and a bit pricey. The other strutted in behind a brass band, got major coverage in the hobby press and the tacit support of the only standardizing body in model railroading - not to mention that it was a single piece of plastic and had a unit production cost of next to nothing. It ended up in every non-craftsman kit box, and on almost all toy and RTR rolling stock.
Now the patents on the metal coupler have expired. A bunch of folks have jumped on the opportunity to manufacture 'lookalike, work like' clones, mostly in plastic. They come. 'free,' with most kits and RTR (replacing the ghastly X2F,) or can be bought for a lot less than the 'good ones.'
Bear in mind that free is usually worth what you paid for it, and that three broken clones cost more than one indestructable original - even if you don't add in the cost of destroyed or damaged rolling stock after a break-in-two runaway incident.
You pays your money, and you makes your choice. I choose Kadees, even though the #6s I use cost me more than the original cost of the cars they're being installed on.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
WP 3020:
I admire your admiration for a 'scale coupler' and secretly wonder if your 100% in the 'scale' camp... 'Fine-line' wheels, code 55-70 track, etc. also?
Regardless of what coupler you use, Kadee is one of several 'knuckle' couplers, and 'knuckle' cuplers rely on 'handshake' to hold.
The less 'handshake' the less grab and greater the chance of height variances and couplers letting go upon slight misalignments and elevation changes. Even KD's semi scaled coupler has an oversized 'nose' on it.
I do SHARE your disdain for cars with couplers cemented on- but for different reasons.
I find the 'stanrd' size too long for my taste, and sticking out reminds me of the toy it really is. I prefer the standard sized #33 and the illision of more realistic space between cars (I modified my curves ) to avoid the 'Sea Elephant' nose. Somehow to my eye the 'standard' size head is invisible between cars, and looks better on end-cars - again to my eyes .
Perhaps my eyes are different- or is it the perception? No matter - to each his own , (but I am curious what track and wheels you use).
I have been using Kadee couplers since 1960. All other is folly.
Bob
This subject has been really beaten to death over the years/months. I would think that by this time the consensus is clear: Kadee couplers are the best on the market for general use. For the really appearance-conscious, there are the Sergent knuckle couplers. If I were trying to build contest models for every car, I'd use Sergents; for actual use on a layout, I have to go with Kadees (#58 and the whisker version of the same).
With the above being said, I think that the proliferation of the knuckle design pioneered by Kadee is one of the best things to happen to the hobby in a long time. It allows the beginner to have a good-looking coupler on his cars that can (usually) be replaced easily and gradually by the better Kadee metal coupler. Those who get indignant about these "plastic clones" should thank their lucky stars that they aren't still dealing with the really nasty horn-hooks.
My .
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
Don Gibson wrote:EVERYBODY:KADEE makes an AFTERMARKET product. They have ALWAYS made an aftermarket product.They have CHOSEN to remain an aftermarket product, rather than go OEM.1, We ALL have a CHOICE - to use what comes free, or buy a Kadee. (ONLY InterMountain COMES WITH the KD #5).YOUR CHOICE. What is wrong with that?
Actually I believe that KD cars also come with KD couplers. At least the ones I have do
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Sorry Don,
Intermountain is not the "only" OEM user of Kadee couplers. All of my Lionel HO challengers came Factory equipped with Kadee's, And I believe the Veranda Turbines were too, but I would have to check to be sure.
Some of my BLI Locomotives, the SW/NW switchers in particular come to mind came with Kadee's, some with McHenry's, no Rhyme or Reason that even BLI could explain as to which would have Kadee's and which wouldn't.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Don Gibson wrote: WP 3020:I admire your admiration for a 'scale coupler' and secretly wonder if your 100% in the 'scale' camp... 'Fine-line' wheels, code 55-70 track, etc. also?
The answer is no, I am not 100% in the 'scale' camp... 'Fine-line' wheels, code 55-70 track, etc. also. We may have misunderstood each other. I do not use Kadee #5s and similar sized couplers because I think they do look rather ridiculously large and over scale on my Nscale equipment! However, I do install and use #5s the majority of the time on 98%+ of my HO equipment. I will use scale size Kadee couplers on a select few. I have and will use code 55 - 70 in some Nscale instances but I usually use code 83 in HO. I also don't clip the trip pins off because they are not scale, look hideous and I prefer to operate "prototypically" and use an over sized piece of bamboo or other device to uncouple my cars just like the prototype does. You may call me layzee in the 'scale' camp area. I prefer to install my Kadee couplers myself, after market and to my liking to insure their operational reliability and to keep the price per kit down. Replacing couplers with Kadees is one of the first things I do with an RTR product. I might be happier if manufacturers would chose to install a scale sized plastic POS coupler for the simple fact that I could then have a more realistic scrap load in a gondola. Some prototype cars do have an extra long coupler shank not an extended length hydro cushioned draft gear underframe. I will install shelf couplers on more modern tank cars and locomotives where applicable. I have seen #5 coupler knuckles break in the use of long trains (not slamming together but pulling apart). I have never had an electrical shorting issue using all metal couplers installed in plastic draft gear boxes on metal loco frames used in multiple front to back back to front etc. so I never have had the need to use a plastic coupler. I was commenting more on the "free" coupler provided with the RTR product.
loathar wrote:T.N.S.T.A.A.F.L. (or coupler...)
Methinks you meant tanstaafl, no? (With a respectful salute to RAH.)
Tanstaafc doesn't quite have the same flavor - but it's just as true.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with Kadee couplers)
tomikawaTT wrote: loathar wrote:T.N.S.T.A.A.F.L. (or coupler...)Methinks you meant tanstaafl, no? (With a respectful salute to RAH.)Tanstaafc doesn't quite have the same flavor - but it's just as true.Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with Kadee couplers)
http://www.tnstaafl.net/TNSTAAFL_/tnstaafl_.html
Either one works. It was actually the name of a place I used to buy electronics parts from.
Plastic fails while I never had a Kadee fail in 35+ years.
Nothing is free. Prior to my closure of the Ebay account, I was pricing 25 dollars into my initial bid cost to cover shipping. Customers thought they were getting away paying 12 dollars Post for a gigantic 30 dollar shipping.
FYI: Another OEM that uses Kadee's is Overland.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************