Due to size constraints my sons track layout has required me to install 15" radius track. I did put in 18" radius track on the entry and exits of the turnarounds. Here's my question. He has a birthday next month and really has his heart set on a new steam engine. He's into the early steam look.
He has an older IHC 4-6-2 that does fine, although it does overhang by a little. Should I stick with my gut feeling of a 2-6-0, 4-4-0, 0-4-0, 0-6-0 or maybe a 4-6-0? My thought is that the smaller wheel arrangements would probably be the best. I'm concerned that the 15" track would be too tight for a 2-8-0 and lead to derailments.
I would suggest trying a 4-4-0. Any large wheel base like a 2-8-0 will probably experience some problems. But I can not say for certain.
Magnus
sparkyjay31 wrote: Due to size constraints my sons track layout has required me to install 15" radius track. I did put in 18" radius track on the entry and exits of the turnarounds. Here's my question. He has a birthday next month and really has his heart set on a new steam engine. He's into the early steam look. He has an older IHC 4-6-2 that does fine, although it does overhang by a little. Should I stick with my gut feeling of a 2-6-0, 4-4-0, 0-4-0, 0-6-0 or maybe a 4-6-0? My thought is that the smaller wheel arrangements would probably be the best. I'm concerned that the 15" track would be too tight for a 2-8-0 and lead to derailments.
sj:
Rigid wheelbase is mainly what matters. You can actually get away with a longer rigid wb with steam than diesel, because many steam models (and some prototypes) have blind center drivers (often the 2nd and 3rd set on a 2-8-0 model) and steam driver sets aren't constrained by swivel mechanisms and U-joint shafts as diesels are.
I think an early 2-8-0 with 51-56" drivers would work. Actually, my Roundhouse 2-6-0 has a longer wheelbase than the similar RH 2-8-0.
One thing you do have to watch out for with very early steam is light weight and the poor electrical contact and pulling power that can go with it. The electrical troubles mostly are with the very, very early stuff and can be overcome by keeping the wheels clean. My Roundhouse engine has no trouble making contact, but it is a bit light, so it works best with fairly free-rolling cars (Athearn blue box or normal Roundhouse with plastic wheels are fine; Life-like trainset cars can load it up fast).
The current MR has an HO layout that fits turnback curves in a 24" wide shelf! The owner appears to use mostly smaller Mantua and other die-cast engines, and apparently is satisfied with the operations.
I run my IHC 0-8-0 and 2-6-0 Camelback on 15 inch radius without any problem. They also stand up to my 6 year old sons handling.
Jim
On that tight a curve a 4-4-0 might have a bit of an overhang on the front, that's a pretty sharp curve for an engine with 4 wheels up front. I would lean towards an 0-6-0, perhaps a Proto one with sound?? Nice thing about a switcher like an 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 is it will be pretty easy to fit into later layouts. An oldtime 4-4-0 or 2-8-0 might not fit in a more modern layout down the road, but switchers were pretty much the same for the last 40 years of steam. 20 years from now your son could be using that 0-6-0 as a yard switcher in his basement sized layout...hopefully not in your basement however!!
On our 15 inch curves, Spectrum Climax, Shay and ten wheelers work fine, as do Roundhouse Old Time 2-8-0s.
The Spectrum 2-8-0, however, is too big and tends to derail as do larger steam locomotives.
sparkyjay31 wrote:Due to size constraints my sons track layout has required me to install 15" radius track. I did put in 18" radius track on the entry and exits of the turnarounds. Here's my question. He has a birthday next month and really has his heart set on a new steam engine. He's into the early steam look. He has an older IHC 4-6-2 that does fine, although it does overhang by a little. Should I stick with my gut feeling of a 2-6-0, 4-4-0, 0-4-0, 0-6-0 or maybe a 4-6-0? My thought is that the smaller wheel arrangements would probably be the best. I'm concerned that the 15" track would be too tight for a 2-8-0 and lead to derailments.
I think you should go all out and get a YB Mallet or a Big Boy (but then again it's not an early steam look). No problems on overhang there......
Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.
Daniel G.
dale8chevyss wrote: sparkyjay31 wrote: Due to size constraints my sons track layout has required me to install 15" radius track. I did put in 18" radius track on the entry and exits of the turnarounds. Here's my question. He has a birthday next month and really has his heart set on a new steam engine. He's into the early steam look. He has an older IHC 4-6-2 that does fine, although it does overhang by a little. Should I stick with my gut feeling of a 2-6-0, 4-4-0, 0-4-0, 0-6-0 or maybe a 4-6-0? My thought is that the smaller wheel arrangements would probably be the best. I'm concerned that the 15" track would be too tight for a 2-8-0 and lead to derailments.Why does it seem that a Big Boy will solve ALL? I just don't get it. I think you should go all out and get a YB Mallet or a Big Boy (but then again it's not an early steam look). No problems on overhang there......
Why does it seem that a Big Boy will solve ALL? I just don't get it.
yeh well, I repaired a friends AHM Rivarossi Big Boy and found it ran 15" sans tender just fine
I would think you could get away with a 2-6-6-2 on 15" like Mantua's tank logger or tendered one as about the biggest power that would work right for 15". I have an MDC larger 2-8-0 it might like 15". Never really tested it yet. Now you got my curiosities lurking I am about to lay down some 15" track which I have and see what equipment I have does or doesnt like 15".
Most 40'-50' cars should handle 15" but 60' to 80' cars would be more a nono, but don't hold your breath, my Athearn 80' HiCube uses talgo trucks, maybe it will do 15". Only for that special industrial area and if I grease the rails down...
Athearn recently released the RoundHouse 2-8-0, maybe it will be OK on 15"
But my LL 0-8-0 I think are testy on 15" but I think I want it to be able to take 15" for my industrial areas.
Perhaps the better idea is to think of what your layout theme is and style your engines roster to that theme, 15" radius would be more common for old western or lumber lines or tight curve industrial.
sparkyjay31 wrote: dale8chevyss wrote: sparkyjay31 wrote: Due to size constraints my sons track layout has required me to install 15" radius track. I did put in 18" radius track on the entry and exits of the turnarounds. Here's my question. He has a birthday next month and really has his heart set on a new steam engine. He's into the early steam look. He has an older IHC 4-6-2 that does fine, although it does overhang by a little. Should I stick with my gut feeling of a 2-6-0, 4-4-0, 0-4-0, 0-6-0 or maybe a 4-6-0? My thought is that the smaller wheel arrangements would probably be the best. I'm concerned that the 15" track would be too tight for a 2-8-0 and lead to derailments.Why does it seem that a Big Boy will solve ALL? I just don't get it. I think you should go all out and get a YB Mallet or a Big Boy (but then again it's not an early steam look). No problems on overhang there......
I can't decipher who wrote that but with Athearn/Bowser/Rivarossi/BLI/Trix/PCM/various brass makers, it's only logical to have one Big Boy, let alone 24 even
Hi there I have many of these engines on my own layout and operate them with relatively minimal problems. My LL 0-8-0's don't pull as well as quoted and yes I do have some overhang due to limited space but generally OK. My Mantua 2-8-4 is OK but the Pacific with the overhang is something else... it doesn't derail but does slow on the curves. My LL Budd is limited to shuttles on the main line as it does not like the inner curves and looks... well ungainly and I keep it for club use!
I use Flex track as is common here in Australia, mainly Peco, and the "trick" is to lead into the curves with a transition rather than the engine lurching straight into a 15" curve for the first 25 to 30 degrees of the curve. The big issue is for me at least making sure the track is in gauge as any tightening regardless of how minor will cause problems.
Hope this helps... you are quite welcome to contact off line!
Regards form Down Under
Trevor www.xdford.digitalzones.com for a view of the layout!
The suggestions here have been all over the place. Some of the engines mentioned would navigate 15" radius curves, others most certainly would not.
I recommend looking for an engine with a short rigid wheelbase. Typically this is the distance between the first and last driving axle. Blind drivers can help a little, but there is still the problem of an increasing angle of attack between the flanges and rail as the wheelbase length is increased and the curve radius is decreased. Sometimes a lead and/or trailing truck on a model steam engine can contribute to the effective rigid wheelbase. Anther thing to consider is the amount of side to side play in the drivers. Engines with little to no lateral play will need larger curves.
What do you consider to be "early steam"? The selection of pre-1900 models is very limited.
You will probably get the best advice if you post a list of a few specific models you are considering.
- Harry
TwinZephyr wrote: You will probably get the best advice if you post a list of a few specific models you are considering.
I am leaning toward an IHC General 4-4-0 or maybe a Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 in Southern green. I've given thought to the 0-6-0 and 0-8-0, but he really likes the 4-4-0 for some reason.
sparkyjay31 wrote: TwinZephyr wrote: You will probably get the best advice if you post a list of a few specific models you are considering. I am leaning toward an IHC General 4-4-0 or maybe a Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 in Southern green. I've given thought to the 0-6-0 and 0-8-0, but he really likes the 4-4-0 for some reason.
The Spectrum engine is probably going to be better quality than the IHC one.
Just a thought, if you haven't got a lot invested in track, have you thought about Kato track?? In HO they have curves of 16-7/8th" radius that might fit your need and will give you a little bit broader curve than 15" track...plus the track is easy to use and reliable.
wjstix wrote: sparkyjay31 wrote: TwinZephyr wrote: You will probably get the best advice if you post a list of a few specific models you are considering. I am leaning toward an IHC General 4-4-0 or maybe a Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 in Southern green. I've given thought to the 0-6-0 and 0-8-0, but he really likes the 4-4-0 for some reason.The Spectrum engine is probably going to be better quality than the IHC one. Just a thought, if you haven't got a lot invested in track, have you thought about Kato track?? In HO they have curves of 16-7/8th" radius that might fit your need and will give you a little bit broader curve than 15" track...plus the track is easy to use and reliable.
Unfortunately my 6 year old likes the 1880's General and without kitbashing I'm kinda stuck...Something tells me that as gentle as he is, a kitbashed Spectrum is not a good idea right now...
I totally argree with your quality comment.
I just finished all my track laying. And I have too much time and $$$ invested to change it right now. Great idea though... Thanks.
The only HO scale "General-like" locomotive currently in production is the Bachmann "golden spike" model. If you are willing to search the second hand market, you can find the Mantua General and, as you know, the IHC old time 4-4-0.
The IHC old time 4-4-0 will run on 15" radius curves. The Bachmann and Mantua engines may run on 15" radius curves too - it depends on whether or not there is enough play in the front truck. Being mostly metal, the Mantua General is the most solidly built of the three.
Sparky--
I don't know if the newer Roundhouse 'old-timer' 2-8-0 has these options available, but the older Roundhouse 'kit' 2-8-0's came with several different stacks and headlights to 'back-date' them to the 1880's. I've got two of them, one I backdated as a 'movie' train for my own MR, with a square oil headlight and a balloon (Cogdon) stack. Looks pretty good, and the Roundhouse locos with their blank center drivers will take a 15" radius with no problem.
And if you want to invest the time, Cal-Scale through Bowser makes several brass castings (baloon stack and square headlight) that could be used to turn the Roundhouse into an 1880's Consolidation.
Just a thought.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!