Hello all. Another question has sprung to my mind. I am atm building a little layout in N scale, and my plan is a 2 x 4 layout of a relatively large coal mine (3 track tipple) and i got to wondering....whats the usual track plan around mines? Do they usually have a run-around track or double tracks near the mine, so they can move loads and empties? I can find dozens of pictures of mines, but relatively little information on the tracks themselves. I had planned for a siding that i could shove my empties into, pick up my loads, then grab the empties and set them on the loading tracks, but it occured to me i have no idea how a real railroad did this?
Pondering things best pondered before construction begins, Tim
A good place to start would be the various railroad historical societies. I know the Western Maryland Ry Historical Soc. has run features in it's quarterly magazine about the various coal branches served by the railroad in the upper Potomac valley, and down in West Virginia. Many of articles are accompanied by numerous photos, maps, and in some cases, track charts.
A lot would depend on the volume produced by the mine, and whether there was a central tipple that was served by several mines away from the site. One very simple loading facility that would make sense on a small 2x4 layout would be a truck dump. This requires only a siding, either thru or stub-ended, and a bunker where trucks could unload either directly into the hopper cars, or into a holding bin that would be later unloaded into a hopper.
I have an old craftsman kit for a truck dump that I built for my layout. I usually push 3 or four cars up to it during a session.
Hope this helps...
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
That's what's interesting about coal mines & tipples..... no two are the same it seems. With that said, there's all sorts of configurations to come up with, & will look pretty good. With what you described, here's a few shots from my mine on the N scale Allegheny & Cumberland. I guess the bottom line depends on how much room you have to work with ! Here's a few earlier pics to give you an idea .......
You need a track to pull up to the mine with the empty coal hoppers.
You will want a run around off to one side of the tipple to get around behind your loaded hoppers.
You will want a track next to that runaround to stand your empties.
And a track for the caboose ofcourse.
I plan to handle hoppers in cuts of three, so my runaround is long enough for one engine (Or consist) plus three hoppers at a time. Each tipple gets three loads pulled and three empties put in.
If I wanted to be lavish on the switches, each tipple will have a tail track behind it with a engine escape on each one capable of holding three more cuts of cars that can be drifted into place with handbrake.
Even a smallish mine turn of 9 inbounds and 9 outs can be a big job.
Thanks guys, i think i have a plan now. Ill post a couple pics as soon as the tracks are laid.
6-8 cars is likely all i will be able to move in a session, due to my limitations of size (can only get so many hoppers together at one time in 4' of space) but i like mining, and mountain scenes...part diorama, part switching puzzle. And TY Falls cause i had totally forgotten the caboose hehe!
2-8-8-0 wrote: Hello all. Another question has sprung to my mind. I am atm building a little layout in N scale, and my plan is a 2 x 4 layout of a relatively large coal mine (3 track tipple) and i got to wondering....whats the usual track plan around mines? Do they usually have a run-around track or double tracks near the mine, so they can move loads and empties? I can find dozens of pictures of mines, but relatively little information on the tracks themselves. I had planned for a siding that i could shove my empties into, pick up my loads, then grab the empties and set them on the loading tracks, but it occured to me i have no idea how a real railroad did this? Pondering things best pondered before construction begins, Tim
Kalmbach has a Modeler's Guide to Coal Railroading (or something like that) that you would probably find useful.
Craig
DMW
"Black Diamonds to Tidewater" for inspiration...
http://www.gingerb.com/index.html
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
The December 2006 Layout Design Journal (LDJ-35), published by the NMRA-associated Layout Design SIG, has a 9-page article on coal tipple yards....very informative.
Mark
2-8-8-0 wrote:Ahh! any idea where i could get a copy of that?
Here is the order form.
http://ldsig.org/pages/pub_order.html
Dallas Model Works wrote: 2-8-8-0 wrote: Hello all. Another question has sprung to my mind. I am atm building a little layout in N scale, and my plan is a 2 x 4 layout of a relatively large coal mine (3 track tipple) and i got to wondering....whats the usual track plan around mines? Do they usually have a run-around track or double tracks near the mine, so they can move loads and empties? I can find dozens of pictures of mines, but relatively little information on the tracks themselves. I had planned for a siding that i could shove my empties into, pick up my loads, then grab the empties and set them on the loading tracks, but it occured to me i have no idea how a real railroad did this? Pondering things best pondered before construction begins, TimKalmbach has a Modeler's Guide to Coal Railroading (or something like that) that you would probably find useful.
Aargh! Stay away from that book if you want anything on trackage. It contains nothing, repeat nothing on coal mine trackage. It's one of Kalmbach's most disappointing books in that regard. Seems like half of it is a self-homage to Tony K's A&M. There is precious little about modern eastern coal mining, post late 1970s or so - no discussion of modern eastern coal loaders for instance. Lots of pictures of tipples and coal company towns if you need that for modeling purposes, though you can find those pics on the net anyway.
Here's an interesting link on coal railroading that I think is useful, very interesting...and free.
http://www.appalachianrailroadmodeling.com
If you're modeling the modern era - post 1980...all you need is a long siding and a coal loader with conveyors to "elsewhere"...or a truck dump. These coal loaders are often miles from the mine head or strip mine. That's how they do it today. Unit trains come in, load up on a slow run and are on their way. Very space effective for modeling. From my research, there are few if any large multi-track tipples anymore. They are mostly abandoned buildings now. No need of the full Walthers New River Kit for modern eastern coal loading, save for an abandoned structure or perhaps for a processing plant - not for a tipple.
My last advice on a tipple if you're going that way...if possible, stay away from short stub-ended tracks with a mine....tracks that end a car length or two away from the tipple. Highly unrealistic, though tempting for space purposes. You would need to leave plenty of track on either side of the tipple.
I have some photos of a large modern truck dump loader that was at Rockwood Jct., PA. I understand it was recently razed.
Find them in my web gallery
If you're following a prototype, check out terraserver and use the topo map option. Most of the map are based on 1977 or earlier maps when you zoom all the way in and many will show pretty accurate track layouts.
Also keep in mind that post 1960 or so, many mines lost the runaround tracks so railroads adopted some unique operating methods. For example, the Clinchfield would send out a "Moss Turn" with power on both ends of the train so that all the stub-ended mines could be easily and quickly worked depending on which direction the switch faced. Over on the former N&W, many trains are shoved for miles to avoid the runaround situation. It's not uncommon to see a train depart Williamson yard cab-first and run all the way out the Delorme Branch. Same for the former L&N where mine runs depart Hazard cab-first to work such loadouts as Sigmon and Bluegrass No.4.
When you get to a flood loading mine, many times the trackage is a simple one-track spur that extends one unit train length past the loadout. Other times the flood loader can be a simple short siding and trains will block an entire branch while loading. The combinations are endless.
For pre-1980's, consider buying one of Ed Wolfe's great books on the Interstate railroad where he has diagrams of all the mine trackage layouts by era. For example, the trackage for a mine sude as Roda will be shown for the 1950 era and then a second diagram is included for post 1970 era. A great resource.
Robby Modeling the L&N CV Subdivision in 1978 http://s226.photobucket.com/albums/dd247/robby-ky/CV%20Subdivision%20Layout/
Not based on a specific prototype, but for whatever it may be worth, this is a fairly flexible mine track configuration a couple of us came up with in an earlier discussion of mine trackage:
Takes about 6x1 feet in H scale - should fit just in about 3 1/2 feet by 1 foot in N scale.
Delveloped from sketches by John Armstrong in "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" and sketches in one of Kalmbach's "Industries you can model" books.
Some possible moves in swapping inbound empties for outbound loads:
http://home.online.no/~steinjr/trains/modelling/forum/mine/index.html
Smile,Stein
Thanks much to all, i think i have a plan now. I want to do a multi track tipple as it gives me the opportunity to 1) build and detail one and 2) gives me something to do on the layout when it is completed. I must be blind, i never even considered making my tipple tracks do double duty as runarounds! This in hand, i think i can construct a small layout on a 2x4 surface and be able to switch perhaps 8 or 9 loads for a like number of empties (in N scale of course!)
Going to try and accurately map this and see if i can make one work. I would like to be sure that i can swtich 3 40 foot hoppers per cut. Would like to be able to pull up with a train of empties, do my switching, and be able to reassemble the whole train when i am finished (of course it wont have anywhere to go, but would at least mark the "end" of the operation. Still seems like a tall order on a 2x4, but i wont know until i accurately make a plan.
Thanks again, Tim
I think a single insulated joiner between each pair of switch and feeder everything else.
Would that work with DCC?