CAZEPHYR wrote:[ Magnus I own serveral each of the Athean, PCM, and Blue Line in transit, Rivarossi and several brass models that are fairly accurate. I don't have the complete 25 as you have but my collection is mostly centered around the later early fifites. I agree the PCM for my money is the best recently but it is as delivered new and not modified as the Union Pacific made changes to the engines. I prefer the added coal boards added in the late forties and the modified Wilson Coolers to the first twenty Big Boys. I have modified some of my PCM Big Boys by moving the turbo generator to the boiler location and started working on the coal boards. The Genesis actually does a better job with most of the modifications to the later era, but the Genesis model has its own drawbacks with the MRC sound and traction tires. I have ruined a set of those already. The new blue Line Big Boy has traction tires, not as an option, but standard. I am concerned that they will get messed up quickly but they should pull anything connected to the drawbar as long as the traction tires remain on the drivers. Cazephyr
Magnus
I own serveral each of the Athean, PCM, and Blue Line in transit, Rivarossi and several brass models that are fairly accurate. I don't have the complete 25 as you have but my collection is mostly centered around the later early fifites. I agree the PCM for my money is the best recently but it is as delivered new and not modified as the Union Pacific made changes to the engines.
I prefer the added coal boards added in the late forties and the modified Wilson Coolers to the first twenty Big Boys. I have modified some of my PCM Big Boys by moving the turbo generator to the boiler location and started working on the coal boards. The Genesis actually does a better job with most of the modifications to the later era, but the Genesis model has its own drawbacks with the MRC sound and traction tires. I have ruined a set of those already.
The new blue Line Big Boy has traction tires, not as an option, but standard. I am concerned that they will get messed up quickly but they should pull anything connected to the drawbar as long as the traction tires remain on the drivers.
Cazephyr
Since I feel that your an expert when it comes to this I got to ask. You know I've ordered a brass version. Not which one hasn't been decided yet since Joe still do not know which exactly are coming in. So, of all the variants available, which one do you think is the most interesting?
I was thinking of getting the 1953 variant. But what does the variants on the tender mean?
http://www.broadway-limited.com/catalog/PCM_UP_Big_Boy_BRASS_4_8_8_4_HO-1761-1.html
The 1953 version should have the additonal steel coal boards for the increased amount of coal that could be loaded. The steel pieces allowed an extra 4 tons of coal to be carried. That is the major difference and some of the early series ( 4000 to 4019) were retired with the 25000 Gal water tenders instead of the 24000 gal that they had when new. It is hard to tell the difference between the two unless they are compared side by side. The 4006 in St. Louis is marked 25000, but it was built with a 24000 gal tender when new.
The turbo Generator on the locomotive should be mounted up on the boiler and the Wilson aftercoolers would be installed. The cab should be inclosed with doors to the rear deck plate.
I looked at the early version of the PCM Brass at Caboose Hobbies and it was very nice, but it was as built and did not have the modifications.
CAZEPHYR wrote: Magnus The 1953 version should have the additonal steel coal boards for the increased amount of coal that could be loaded. The steel pieces allowed an extra 4 tons of coal to be carried. That is the major difference and some of the early series ( 4000 to 4019) were retired with the 25000 Gal water tenders instead of the 24000 gal that they had when new. It is hard to tell the difference between the two unless they are compared side by side. The 4006 in St. Louis is marked 25000, but it was built with a 24000 gal tender when new. The turbo Generator on the locomotive should be mounted up on the boiler and the Wilson aftercoolers would be installed. The cab should be inclosed with doors to the rear deck plate. I looked at the early version of the PCM Brass at Caboose Hobbies and it was very nice, but it was as built and did not have the modifications.
Thanks for your input, I apreciate it. I will probably try to get the 1953 version, I have plenty of the 1941 and 1944 variants. It's nice to have something a bit different. This baby will be in my living room so that I can watch it as often as possible.
Lillen wrote: CAZEPHYR wrote: Magnus The 1953 version should have the additonal steel coal boards for the increased amount of coal that could be loaded. The steel pieces allowed an extra 4 tons of coal to be carried. That is the major difference and some of the early series ( 4000 to 4019) were retired with the 25000 Gal water tenders instead of the 24000 gal that they had when new. It is hard to tell the difference between the two unless they are compared side by side. The 4006 in St. Louis is marked 25000, but it was built with a 24000 gal tender when new. The turbo Generator on the locomotive should be mounted up on the boiler and the Wilson aftercoolers would be installed. The cab should be inclosed with doors to the rear deck plate. I looked at the early version of the PCM Brass at Caboose Hobbies and it was very nice, but it was as built and did not have the modifications. Thanks for your input, I apreciate it. I will probably try to get the 1953 version, I have plenty of the 1941 and 1944 variants. It's nice to have something a bit different. This baby will be in my living room so that I can watch it as often as possible. Magnus
Glad to help. I am a member of the UPHS and collected books and pictures looking at the changes to the Big Boys over the years. I tend to model after 1950 in the late steam era so my models all need the Wilson cooling coils behind the shields, the steel coal boards, the turbo generator mounted up top and the cab with the doors to the rear. Many of the more recent brass models model the late version since that is the way they are now after the retirement and preservation. There is a step change safety type modification above the pilot in front that Athearn picked up but PCM did not since the PCM was as new. Steam locomotives had minor modifications to the piping and other small details in the backshops so a perfect model is hard to come by. Don't be surprised if you look at pictures and find a repipe or change in some minor details that the model does not have.
I have visited all eight of the preserved Big Boys and was on the 4023 at Cheyenne several times before it was moved to the Omaha shops after the main long stall portion of the round house was removed. During that period, the roundhouse was open to us each time the 8444 ran and the UP was very good about us looking at everything in those days.
The UPHS is doing a complete book on each class of locomotives that the UP used. They have not published the Big Boy book as of this date, but I would recommend it to you when it is available. I have most of the ones available and they have pictures of each and every engine in class to show changes and era's of the class. You can go on line at UPHS.org to see what is available now.
Another book that is very good is The History of the Union Pacific in Cheyenne. This book is a large format book and has many great pictures of Cheyenne ant the 4000 class. There are so many books including the Kratville book on the Big Boy and several other books that show them in service.
Hope this helps.
CAZEPHYR wrote: Magnus Glad to help. I am a member of the UPHS and collected books and pictures looking at the changes to the Big Boys over the years. I tend to model after 1950 in the late steam era so my models all need the Wilson cooling coils behind the shields, the steel coal boards, the turbo generator mounted up top and the cab with the doors to the rear. Many of the more recent brass models model the late version since that is the way they are now after the retirement and preservation. There is a step change safety type modification above the pilot in front that Athearn picked up but PCM did not since the PCM was as new. Steam locomotives had minor modifications to the piping and other small details in the backshops so a perfect model is hard to come by. Don't be surprised if you look at pictures and find a repipe or change in some minor details that the model does not have. I have visited all eight of the preserved Big Boys and was on the 4023 at Cheyenne several times before it was moved to the Omaha shops after the main long stall portion of the round house was removed. During that period, the roundhouse was open to us each time the 8444 ran and the UP was very good about us looking at everything in those days. The UPHS is doing a complete book on each class of locomotives that the UP used. They have not published the Big Boy book as of this date, but I would recommend it to you when it is available. I have most of the ones available and they have pictures of each and every engine in class to show changes and era's of the class. You can go on line at UPHS.org to see what is available now. Another book that is very good is The History of the Union Pacific in Cheyenne. This book is a large format book and has many great pictures of Cheyenne ant the 4000 class. There are so many books including the Kratville book on the Big Boy and several other books that show them in service. Hope this helps.
Thanks again for your help. I've been looking for that book for about six months but I haven't found it at a price I'm willing to pay. Usually it costs around 300$(plus 25% tax) and I can not say I like to pay that much for that book. Maybe I'm wrong.
I would really apreciate it if you let me know when the book is published. I'm also interested in the Challengers. Are these books only available from the society are will they be available from Amazon? Will you have to be a member of the society to buy one?
I got the Kratville book and a lot of other books about the UP.
The books are available directly from the UPHS and in many of the larger hobby shops. I saw some of the selection at Caboose Hobbies recently and other shops also.
I will remind myself to send an PM to you when the 4000 class UPHS book is published. The large format Cheyenne book probably would cost half as much to ship as the cost of the book and might not be prudent for you to purchase and ship it. I received my copy via the UPHS when they first came out and have enjoyed it for about fifteen years or so.
I certainly hope the PCM brass Big Boy you are waiting for looks great in the case running on the rollers. I decided to skip the latest brass since I have two really nice Key Brass Big Boys and some older brass ones also. I had a USH O scale Big Boy for many years but sold off the O scale about ten years ago.
GTX765 wrote:I sent an email to wholesale trains about my blue line big boy I order on September 7th 2007. They say there are having issues with their supplier getting some in stock. What is the point of the pre-order if they cannot get one? I emailed BLI and they said it depends on the dealer and the supplier and when the order was sent in. I know others have mentioned using wholesale trains but this is my first order with them. I mean gosh eBay has these engines all over and so do other dealers. They emailed me today and said they do not have a date when they will have them in stock. How nice.
Get it from Joe at FDT. He will deliver immediately and will give you great service if their is any problem!
http://029ebf1.netsolstores.com/
If you read the BLI forum, Matthew Williams has responded by saying some of the in house orders for the Big Boys were shipped by air freight and the rest are on a container ship. If your distributer is not high on the BLI list, yours might be on that container ship. BLI had explained that the Big Boys and PRR J1 were running late and BLI paid extra for the air freight to get some here in March. They were expected in November, December, January and February also.
Many of the distributers have stopped reserving BLI/PCM products after the large blow out sale left them with wholesale stock on hand that was more expensive than the sale price at BLI/PCM FDT and so on. This has happened at least three times that I know of and and some dealers will not stock BLI products any longer, no matter what the price. I know of several dealers on the west coast that will not order them even on prior reservation because they have old stock on hand that cannot be sold. FDT has become the dealer of choice for many of us since they are relatives of BLI and handle the big sale blowouts. Trainworld seems to be getting most of the BLI/PCM models also.
You will probably get you model within a short time after the second wave hits.
Thanks for sharing your information and educating me, I will keep with wholesale trains due to a really good price. These items are not a must have or a life threatning matter so I will wait.
Thanks again
Lillen wrote: GTX765 wrote:I sent an email to wholesale trains about my blue line big boy I order on September 7th 2007. They say there are having issues with their supplier getting some in stock. What is the point of the pre-order if they cannot get one? I emailed BLI and they said it depends on the dealer and the supplier and when the order was sent in. I know others have mentioned using wholesale trains but this is my first order with them. I mean gosh eBay has these engines all over and so do other dealers. They emailed me today and said they do not have a date when they will have them in stock. How nice. Get it from Joe at FDT. He will deliver immediately and will give you great service if their is any problem! http://029ebf1.netsolstores.com/ Magnus
I'm still waiting on mine but got a better price than that so I will continue to wait.
Paul
GTX765 wrote:I am still waiting for my big boy of course, but the BLI forums are not looking positive right now. Everyone is complaining about traction tires and wobbles. They say all blueline engines will have them and not have and extra driver set with no traction tires. I have never had any engines with traction tires and a little nervous. People on the forum stated they are going to cancel all blue line orders due to the big boys poor performance. Gosh this is nerve racking, i hope tony's trains does a product review on this soon. Or someone do a product review.
I think you are getting scared by just a few voices. I'm among those who have raised the issue about traction tires and are considering cancelling some future Blueline purchases. But we are quite few that complain(we seems to like to say it so we post it in several threads). I've never said anything about the Blueline BB since I do now have nor will I ever. But your absolutely right that their is a lot of concern about the issue.
GTX765 wrote:My big boy from wholesale trains has shipped, it will be here on Tuesday. I hope the rest of you are getting yours also.
Same here... Shipped yesterday.
GTX765 wrote:I am still waiting for my big boy of course, but the BLI forums are not looking positive right now. Everyone is complaining about traction tires and wobbles. They say all blueline engines will have them and not have and extra driver set with no traction tires. I have never had any engines with traction tires and a little nervous. People on the forum stated they are going to cancel all blue line orders due to traction tires. Gosh this is nerve racking, i hope tony's trains does a product review on this soon. Or someone do a product review.
From what I have read, the wobble problem is the exception, not the normal. A couple of persons reported having that problem, but the ones I have are OK. They do not run super slow unless you have a decoder with back emf. \ After we installed the Zimo, it now runs like the Trix or PCM, very slow and smooth at less than 1 mph.
I was just mystified they would build it with two sets of traction tires on the heaviest locomotive in die cast metal I know of. The motor does stall when you hold the model back and it probably would burn out if that situation continued for any length of time. Probably even one set of traction tires would have the same effect on a model this heavy.
I prefer the PCM version with a little driver slip at the extreme length of 100 cars or more.
- Luke
Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's
GTX765 wrote:I got my big boy finally and it runs great, the sound is very good and has some unique sounds that make it an excellent model. I am of course talking to myself but I am used to that . I installed the decoder and programed the model without errors. This engine is quite long and I am glad I spent the time on my track work to let large steam run freely.
Mine didn't come today... Probably tommorow. Tracking said it's in my town though.
New haven, the big boys are diecast metal, which is a high price, quality motors, sound...
The lowest price is $260, and that is a heckuva bargain. If you want one, try a rivarossi/hornby.