suggestions with switch machines

[ramoutandabout]

im using walthers  switches, plan  on using push bottons around layout. what band do you use? anything other than tourtise?  what do u like dislike?

 

thanks for you help

 

ray

[Don Gibson]

im using walthers  switches, plan  on using push bottons around layout. what b(R)and do you use? anything other than tourtise?  what do u like dislike? ray.

Ray, May I call you 'NO CAP' for short?

I USE Hankscraft motors with Rix Rak II mounts for my mainline, fascia mounted toggle swiches, and manually operated Caboose Industries ground throws for yards, and spurs - like the railroads do.

THIS Doesn't mean you should. Tortoise are not as well made,as Hankscraft but are cheaper - and have electrical contacts too. I have found through the years THINGS THAT MOVE wear out and give THE MOST trouble. Saving $$ on turnouts can become expensive down the road - to say nothing about derailments.

http://www.mrhobby.com/Hankscraft.html

 http://www.rixproducts.com/6280001.htm

Here is a fellow I met at a SFM&HS convention, and am trying to steal some of his expertese.

http://www.emporiasub.com/home.html

I'm building my 5th layout - and finally trying to get it right.

 

[tomikawaTT]

My control system calls for twin-coil solenoid machines with DPDT or 3PDT contacts.  I've had good results with RIX machines (which require some assembly.)  When DPDT won't do it, I fall back on my limited stock of 40 year old KTM machines (the huge things once imported by Kemtron and others.)

Twin coil machines can be operated by any type of momentary-contact switch - shorting rotary, toggle, pushbutton or stud-and-probe.  I use shorting rotaries in the track diagrams for turnouts that have to be controlled from two different panels, and stud-and-probe for single-panel control.

Atlas machines are also twin-coil solenoids.  I don't use them because they have no built-in contacts.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[doctorwayne]

I have one Tortoise controlling a turnout leading to the tail track of a wye, located beneath a low bridge.  All other turnouts are controlled by Caboose Industries ground throws.  The nicest switch machine that I've ever used was a motor-driven worm and gear by PFM/Fulgurex:  I wish that I'd salvaged it from a previous layout. A sweet (but expensive) piece of machinery.

Wayne

[faraway]

I'm using Feather Motors. They are very silent, very slow and extremly reliable.

Here is a link to the German distributor but is is a US product.

http://www.asoa.de/feather-products.htm 

[cwclark]

Sorry, but i'll have to stick to the tortoise modified with a .039 spring piano wire. I have 40 of them and only once did one ever give me trouble. Once finding a good thing, stick to it. Oh, did I also mention that all my turnouts except for 5 manual Caboose Hobbies ground throw switches were tortoise machines?

[jrbernier]

  I use Tortoise motors for my staging yard tracks and any turnouts that I cannot reach.  The rest of the layout uses Caboose Industries ground throws.  Both products are very reliable.  I used to use a lot of the older twin coil witch machines(Kemtron/Tenshodo), but they needed maintenence every now & then.  The electical contacts were not very reliable(I used them for panel lights).  The Tortoise motors are rock solid and I can just wire a bi-polar LED in series with them for turnout indication lamps on my panel.   They may be 'pricey', but they eliminate one of the biggest maintenence headaches on a model railroad!  I looked at the Micro-Mark stall motors, but there really was no savings, and they do not have the extra electrical contacts or the gear reduction.

  There has been a new motor that came out recently that has a very tiny motor on the bottom of a Walthers code 83 turnout, and is DCC control capable.  It is super expensive, and I am concerned about how you service it if there is a problem(tearing up the turnout is not an option in my book).

Jim

[Beowulf]

Twin coil machines last decades longer if you modify them so the armature stops by hitting the frame (or an addition to the frame you bolt on).  When the force of the armature has to be stopped by the throw linkage, things fall apart.

I throw my twin coil machines through a SCR.  A very small current is turned on by a cheap tactile push button on the control panel and that small current triggers an SCR on the switch machine which turns on the heavy current from the capacitor discharge unit.  It works with uncoupling magnets too.

Using SCRs allows me to use salvaged communications wire and run it the length of the basement -- to far and to fine for heavy currents.  Diode matrixes can be made from tiny switching diodes instead of heavy power diodes.  The tactile push buttons (they are what is under the cover of many keypads)  cost around 20 cents each and are only about 3/16 inch square.

[loathar]

I'm using Feather Motors. They are very silent, very slow and extremly reliable.

Here is a link to the German distributor but is is a US product.

http://www.asoa.de/feather-products.htm 

Any idea what those are called in the U.S.? Don't know how much EURO 26,50 is in US dollars.

[faraway]

Don't know how much EURO 26,50 is in US dollars.

It is about $40.

[WaxonWaxov]

I throw my twin coil machines through a SCR.

 Sorry... SCR?

 

 

[doctorwayne]

I throw my twin coil machines through a SCR.

 Sorry... SCR?

 

 

Silicon Controlled Rectifier - I'm not sure how they're used for turnouts, but I have a couple of SCR throttles that do a really nice job of running trains at slow speeds.

Wayne

[tutaenui]

I'm using Feather Motors. They are very silent, very slow and extremly reliable.

Here is a link to the German distributor but is is a US product.

http://www.asoa.de/feather-products.htm 

 

These look very similar to the Switchmaster machines which I have used successfully for a number of years. I have a feeling they are no longer available under that brand name but someone else is still selling them.

[Beowulf]

An SCR - Silicon Controled Rectifier - uses a tiny current to switch on a much larger current. They are not new as Paul Mallory mentions them in his layout wiring book.  I throw as many as 8 switches at once and my switches are often far from the button which controls them.  For example, the control wires for my staging yard go through the ceiling, across the basement, then down to the lower level of the layout and follow it around an operating asile before arriving at the track switches.

An SCR is connected to one of the leads of each coil of the switch machine.  A heavy wire (18 ga. or larger) from the positive lead of the capacitor discharge unit is connected to the SCR.  Then a very fine wire is run from the positive lead of the capacitor discharge unit to the control panel, thru a very light duty pushbutton and to the gate of the SCR.  Pushing the button makes the gate positive which turns on the SCR and allows the capacitor discharge unit's full power through the coil.

The fine wire I use is salvaged 26 to 30 gage communications wire.  It comes as scrap cable which friends in the construction business have given me over the years.  It won't pass the current needed to throw a switch machine at the other end of the basement. 

Using SCRs also avoids arcing at the switch control button.  A capacitor discharge unit large enough to throw 8 coils at once welds most cheap push buttons closed.  I don't want to spend a few dollars for each pushbutton.

The same arrangement works for electromagnetic uncouplers.

[Don Gibson]

  The nicest switch machine that I've ever used was a motor-driven worm and gear by PFM/Fulgurex:  I wish that I'd salvaged it from a previous layout. A sweet (but expensive) piece of machinery. - Wayne 

doctorwayne:

I believe  PFM/Fulgarex switch machine were AC and are now sold by Trout Creek Engineering/BK

http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bkho.html

Scroll way down 

[doctorwayne]

I believe  PFM/Fulgarex switch machine were AC and are now sold by Trout Creek Engineering/BK

http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bkho.html

Scroll way down 

Thanks for that info, Don.  I wish that they would've included a picture to refresh my feeble memory, though.   All that I recall is that it was very smooth and positive, and was operated by use of a momentary contact push-button.  I had it installed on a very hard-to-get-at scratchbuilt turnout that featured pivoting closure rails - a very dependable combination.

Wayne

[cordon]

Anyone know a good source for shorting (make-before-break) rotary switches?

I want to try them with my Atlas twin-coil switch motors.

 

 

[tomikawaTT]

Anyone know a good source for shorting (make-before-break) rotary switches?

I want to try them with my Atlas twin-coil switch motors.

 

I've been using GC Switch 35-379, purchased from several different sources.  It's labeled 4 positions 2 poles, but actually has three poles - 3P4T shorting.  It's a bit pricey - about $3.50 plus tax and shipping.

As a stand-alone, I don't actually wire the poles.  The throws are wired coil #1 - hot - coil #2 with an off position.  That leaves the equivalent of a DPDT available for other purposes.

The bad thing about the stand-alone configuration is that you have to twist the rotary switch 60 degrees to throw the turnout points.  That's a little different from the usual control panel diagram geometry.

If you check the various on-line discount electronic houses you may find better deals on equivalent switches.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)