This is the biggest problem I've been facing on the layout. My first attempt on putting this grade together was feble at best, but my smaller locos and trolleys would haul up it. Lately, I've noticed that there are dips in it (I suspect from time and weather changes) and I want to rip it out and redo the grade.
Any suggestions on the best way to repair it? What would be the best way to set a new grade and follow it through?
Bob Berger, C.O.O. N-ovation & Northwestern R.R. My patio layout....SEE IT HERE
There's no place like ~/ ;)
What type of support is beneath it?
How long is it and what % is it?
1/4" plywood supports, 4' long, 4%(I know..but not knowing and doing with the girls when they were younger was all I could do to keep them interested. That's why I'm trying to fix it..hoping to get it down to 3%)
luvadj wrote: 1/4" plywood supports, 4' long,
The thicker the plywood the generally the less it will warp. The more plys the less it will warp. The best plywood is often called 'cabinet grade" and typicall has many very thin plys. Foam won't warp but you have to have a support under it that is stable.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Is the benchwork framed in a manner to allow you to add additional risers at the weak, sagging spots? Is it fully sceniced or open to be able to laminate a stiftener and glue and clamp at those spots?
It really depends on the construction and access. If none of these are an option, you may have to live with it or tear it out.
Many will point out that spline and/or the use of quality 3/4" ply (cookie cutter) is way overkill, but problems like this are never an issue.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Well, that's what I meant by "fixing it"...The original grade was a 1 1/4 strip of 1/2" going the length of the grade.
would it by easier to have a start point, a finish point, a level and build new risers? I thought about plastering the grade to smooth it out and re-laying cork and new track...I'm looking for other thoughts and options.
luvadj wrote: Well, that's what I meant by "fixing it"...The original grade was a 1 1/4 strip of 1/2" going the length of the grade. would it by easier to have a start point, a finish point, a level and build new risers? I thought about plastering the grade to smooth it out and re-laying cork and new track...I'm looking for other thoughts and options.
If you're looking to lessen the grade to 3% or less, you need to examine the total elevation and calculate the run that you need for that grade. Where to have the grade start and end will need to be figured. Don't forget to include both tranitions(vertical easements). With an already established height to make the change, you just need to find a way to lengthen that run and not interfere with the rest of the plan.
Just plastering over the grade really won't work unless your plan on a massive plaster incline.
Starting from scratch is best to have it work properly.
Starting from scratch is best to have it work properly. Less time consuming in the long run.
What's the purpose of the grade? Is it only for scenic effect, or do you have to elevate the track for clearance over something else? And what scale are we talking about: four feet at 4% will give you a separation of less than 2", not enough for an HO scale loco to pass beneath. Whatever grade you end up with, you can still use your 1/2" roadbed: first, remove it and lay it face down on a flat surface, then use screws to attach a 4' long strip of 1/4" plywood to each side of the roadbed. The strips should be 1" or 1 1/2" deep, with straight edges. Make sure that the roadbed is lying completely flat when you drive the screws. When flipped right-side-up, the top edges of the 1/4" strips should be flush with the top surface of the 1/2" roadbed. Provide support as required.
Wayne
I only know of 2 ways to change the grade of an incline.
1. Lengthen the incline horizontally from start point to end point with the same vertical rise,
or
2. Lessen the vertical rise with the same amount of horizontal incline length.
I would assume in most cases like this that it would be easier to change the elevation of one section of the layout than to reconfigure an exsisting track plan. That being said, to change 1 % grade value, I believe would mean a change of -1/4 inch rise per 2 feet of length. (( If anyone see's a mistake in my calculation, please advise, I often make mistakes. ))
If neither of these options are feasable for your layout space or track plan, I would just replace what you have now with new, stronger materials and live with the 4% grade.
<edit> After reading another post, I had an idea how to fix your saging incline: If you have access from below, you could attach 2 small size(1/2x1/2 for N--3/4x3/4 for HO) aluminum angles ( L ) with 1/2" screws every 3 to 4 inches apart. that will straighten and stiffen your 1/2" roadbed with the least damage to scenery above.
This might be fixable with a light skiff of drywall mud carefully planed. Some of it will be thicker than in other parts, but it needn't be more than 1/16"-1/4" thick from the sounds of things. That does nothing for the overall grade, unfortunately, and probably will change your easements if you have them. So, drywall mud would be a quick fix, not a great one.
If it were me, I'd plan out a different grade, maybe even a different approach if necessary, a different final height, and then use something like masonite or 1/4" thick MDF, or doorskin...something thin that can be cut into the strip length you need, but that is also quite pliable along its major axis...you want something that will bend like a saw blade does. Then, you fast one end, using glue and screws, so that the end is flush with the rest of the layout surface sub roadbed. With that lower end well anchored, you can now bend up the next several inches, say 10 or so, and form an easement that way. Custom make wooden or foam block incline supports/piers to help the sub roadbed you are shaping to maintain its grade as you go along...one every 6" would probably be safe for HO scale engines. Then, reverse the process at the top of the grade, with the easement coming out of the grade and the top end of the material anchored on a riser, also flush with the sub-roadbed meant to accommodate your roadbed and tracks to the industry.
I have some thin plywood subgrade with roller-coaster tendencies. I beat it into submission by screwing steel angle iron to the underside with the short button-head screws used for assembling steel stud walls.
If you want to reduce the grade, you are talking about major surgery to the subgrade, track, scenery and, probably, the track plan as a whole. Reducing a 4% grade to 3% while retaining the same rise will result in lengthening the grade by 1/3. The alternative would lower the summit (and everything connected to it, including overpasses crossing lower level tracks) to 3/4 of its original height - REALLY major benchwork surgery!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)