Last night I happen to be in our local historical society. My wife had an art show she was attending--her painting took First Place Professional BTW-- and I snuck off into the archives. For me this is usually a waste of time because they specialize in genealogy and if they have any historical stuff, it is 19th century. They told me 1950 is far too recent.
Anyway, I did find a blurry picture of the station and I think that the streets may have been brick. If they are brick, I'm going to need a shirt-load of brick streets.
I found this on Walther's but they give you no clue on coverage.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3156
But I think I see seams that indicate we might be talking 100 sq inches or so. If this is the case I may have to find a cheaper alternative.
Do you know the coverage?
Do you know an alternative?
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
I don't, but these guys seem to: Trolleyville...Caution, a word doc
According to them, the straight brick street section (from 933-3139) is approximately 3.5" by 2.75". They also discuss Vollmer & Plastruct (and give cat numbers), and stress thicknesses because their goal is to embed street trackage with-in the brick streets.
A really background alternative is some tempered masonite has a screen pattern pressed into the back of the masonite. When painted red and weathered a bit it can make a passable brick paving for background scenes.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
BRICK paving was cerainly an improvement over dirt. Eventually it was covered over by asphault.
Giving thought to your foam sub roadbed, two thoughts: 1, Plaster is hard. but brittle, Foam is 'spongy.
I THINK a more resilient surface better - say plastic or cardboard with a hard surface, cut to fit, much better.
1. It can be trimmed to clear wheel flanges. 2. I have not used, so cannot contribute more. 3. Some townes covered 'dirt' with wood planks - which gave way to brick
Wow, an engraved invitation, no less. Cool. I was thinking of what I've done here, but it's going to be some work:
At one point, I was thinking of running a short passing siding up through the street, rather than putting the station on the line where it is now. Having done this instead, I'm glad I didn't try. But, there are alternatives, I guess.
The hard part here is covering the ties. If you're hand-laying the track and turnouts, Chip, like the photos I've seen, this might not be so bad. It's the thickness of the casting that's tough to work with, and without ties you can make the castings thicker and less fragile.
These cobblestones were made from a piece of "artificial honeycomb." That, however, is a "negative" and I needed a "positive" to make a mold from, so first I pressed the honeycomb into modelling clay, and then used that to make the mold. I just used Woodland Scenics latex and made a small mold, about 3x6 inches. Then I made repeated casting with hydrocal, and had my cobblestones.
It should be pretty similar with brick, but you can start with a single plastic sheet of brick, and make a mold from that. For the final shaping around odd pieces, I usually end up using a Dremel. It makes a mess, but at least I get the fine shaping I want.
Another thing you might try is using your castings for the big pieces like the streets, and then save the plastic brick sheets for the difficult spaces between the rails.
Through experimentation, I discovered that using "speckled" paint in a Rustoleum spray can gives me the best results. The non-uniform finish looks more realistic. I can still do a bit of highlighting with India Ink, too, which brings out the details of the casting even more.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I do plan to use that cornerstone brick street stuff for my downtown areas.
I remember many streets with brick under the blacktop in Baltimore... some with cobbles even.
If I went there and picked off the blacktop, I bet the brick is still there. They probably used concrete for the freeways or "Bigger roads"
MisterBeasley wrote: Wow, an engraved invitation, no less. Cool. I was thinking of what I've done here, but it's going to be some work:At one point, I was thinking of running a short passing siding up through the street, rather than putting the station on the line where it is now. Having done this instead, I'm glad I didn't try. But, there are alternatives, I guess.The hard part here is covering the ties. If you're hand-laying the track and turnouts, Chip, like the photos I've seen, this might not be so bad. It's the thickness of the casting that's tough to work with, and without ties you can make the castings thicker and less fragile.These cobblestones were made from a piece of "artificial honeycomb." That, however, is a "negative" and I needed a "positive" to make a mold from, so first I pressed the honeycomb into modelling clay, and then used that to make the mold. I just used Woodland Scenics latex and made a small mold, about 3x6 inches. Then I made repeated casting with hydrocal, and had my cobblestones.It should be pretty similar with brick, but you can start with a single plastic sheet of brick, and make a mold from that. For the final shaping around odd pieces, I usually end up using a Dremel. It makes a mess, but at least I get the fine shaping I want.Another thing you might try is using your castings for the big pieces like the streets, and then save the plastic brick sheets for the difficult spaces between the rails.Through experimentation, I discovered that using "speckled" paint in a Rustoleum spray can gives me the best results. The non-uniform finish looks more realistic. I can still do a bit of highlighting with India Ink, too, which brings out the details of the casting even more.
Mr B,
I think I might have a worse situation than you do between the rails. I have ties that hold the track in place, but they are spaced every 2 inches or so, so no support. But I like the idea of casting. That will get me the exact height I need to address the track.
With the turnouts, there are going to be a lot of custom pieces inside the track. I thing the plastic will work better for that. On the other hand there is a lot of Atlas Code 83 in a straight line so I probably could get away with casting that.
A couple of questions.
Do you thing there is any point to pouring plaster between the ties before setting the between the tracks castings?
If I use plastic between the rails I need a standard height. The Walther's is .060 and the track is .083. So I could use .015 or .020 to raise it up to just below track height. that would give me either .003 or .008 below the rails. Any suggestion as to which would be better?
I started this thread in a state of panic, but now I'm starting to warm up to the idea. I'm still going to ask the old timers over for advise. There are a couple from the club I used to belong to that will be a big help. (Like telling me which way the brick ran.).
It could look really hot.
I use Atlas code 100 flex track. Most of my castings are about a quarter-inch thick. This matches up pretty well in height, but I need to "notch" the casting where the ties are, to get the castings to come right up to the outer edge of the rail. This part isn't too bad, but even there I occasionally lose a chunk or two.
For the between-the-rails castings, I had to shave the whole thing down. This wasn't easy, even with the Dremel. The entire casting became very fragile, and actually ended up in a lot of pieces I had to assemble like a jigsaw puzzle as I put it on the layout. For a casting, I would definitely support it as much as possible underneath. It's not going to hold up if you've only got a tie every 2 inches. Plastic probably would hold up.
On the other hand, if you've only got a tie every 2 inches, then you can use a thicker casting, and just notch it out underneath where the ties are. This is at least worth a try. You can always fall back on the plastic for your between-the-rails work.
I used Hydrocal for my castings. It may be that something like plaster of paris would be better. I found the Hydrocal to be kind of brittle, but I haven't used p-of-p for a long, long time so I don't remember its properties. I don't know if anyone has tried using Durhams Water Putty to make a casting, but I suspect you'd have a hard time getting it out of the mold.
Another material which might be interesting to try (and I just thought of this) is the Bragdon foam. This stuff is soft and pliable for a while, and I've heard it can be re-softened with a hair drier. I think you can cut it with scissors. I know Sue (gear-jammer) has used this. Think I'll mosey over to the Beer Barn and see if she's around.
Here's a bit of the chatter from over at the Beer Barn. Sue (gear-jammer) is our resident Bragdon Foam expert:
gear-jammer wrote: MisterBeasley wrote: Sue - can you help us build a better Spacemouse trap?Chip is working on a switching layout with street running. He's thinking of brick streets, and we've been chatting a bit about using castings since he needs a lot of this kind of surface.I just had one of those light-bulb moments. How about Bragdon foam? Suppose he made a flat brick-surface mold out of latex, and then filled it with foam instead of the traditional hard casting plaster? I would think he would have a casting that would be pliable and much easier to work, and that would give him a much better fit to the rails. What do you think? You've used this stuff, so I call upon you for expertise.MrB and Chip,I agree with you. The http://www.bragdonent.com/ geodesic foam would give you a lot of time to work. A thinner pour will resoften a lost easier. Joel probably has a brick mold. I have not been doing the plaster pours since I started with the foam. Your foam pour can be 1/8 to 1/4 inch. That is pretty thin and allows it to be flexible. If you send an E-mail about your plans, I am sure that he would give you some input.Let me know what you do.Sue
MisterBeasley wrote: Sue - can you help us build a better Spacemouse trap?Chip is working on a switching layout with street running. He's thinking of brick streets, and we've been chatting a bit about using castings since he needs a lot of this kind of surface.I just had one of those light-bulb moments. How about Bragdon foam? Suppose he made a flat brick-surface mold out of latex, and then filled it with foam instead of the traditional hard casting plaster? I would think he would have a casting that would be pliable and much easier to work, and that would give him a much better fit to the rails. What do you think? You've used this stuff, so I call upon you for expertise.
Sue - can you help us build a better Spacemouse trap?
Chip is working on a switching layout with street running. He's thinking of brick streets, and we've been chatting a bit about using castings since he needs a lot of this kind of surface.
I just had one of those light-bulb moments. How about Bragdon foam? Suppose he made a flat brick-surface mold out of latex, and then filled it with foam instead of the traditional hard casting plaster? I would think he would have a casting that would be pliable and much easier to work, and that would give him a much better fit to the rails. What do you think? You've used this stuff, so I call upon you for expertise.
MrB and Chip,
I agree with you. The http://www.bragdonent.com/ geodesic foam would give you a lot of time to work. A thinner pour will resoften a lost easier. Joel probably has a brick mold. I have not been doing the plaster pours since I started with the foam. Your foam pour can be 1/8 to 1/4 inch. That is pretty thin and allows it to be flexible. If you send an E-mail about your plans, I am sure that he would give you some input.
Let me know what you do.
Sue
Sue has done some great work with the Bragdon Foam stuff. It's a binary foam, so you get two bottles of stuff. When you mix them together, they activate a chemical reaction. You can then pour the resulting liquid into a mold, and let it set up. I'm not sure how long it takes to reach the point where you can take it out of the mold, but I think it's a matter of just a few minutes. After that, the mold will come off but the surface is still quite pliable, which makes it nice for bending around curved rock faces, etc. Also, you can make a 1/8th inch pour and it will still hold together, not be brittle and fragile like thin Hydrocal castings. You can cut it with scissors, too.
I looked at the catalog of molds at www.bragdonent.com (for Bragdon Enterprises.) They have a few stone walls, but they all look like they would be larger than what you'd want. So, I would start with a piece of the Walthers brick street stuff, or a piece of styrene brick sheet, if that's a better surface, and then make a latex mold from that. (2 years ago I knew nothing about this stuff, and if an old physicist can learn to do Arts & Crafts, anyone can.) Since this stuff is cuttable and flexible, I'd make as large a mold as possible, just to reduce your cycle time as you start making this stuff.
Let me think about the bragdon foam a little longer. The laytex mold is a good idea, but you need to put weight on it to keep it flat. With the hardshell, you use screen for screen doors to make it strong. If you want it very flexible, I would try the mold, plastic wrap, and put a weighted piece of plywood. I will play with the stuff this weekend and get back to you.
Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.
chip, check this out -- http://www.proto87.com/page81.html
maybe it's just what you're looking for.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Mr. Mouse:
A. I have the 933-3139 street set. It has four sprues, two each of two types. The intent is that you make a street 5-1/2 inches wide (40 feet). You get enough to make a four-way intersection (+) 7-1/2 x 7-1/2; four straights 5-1/2 wide x 3-9/16 long; and two 90-deg quarter circle sections. It also includes two different sidewalk sprues.
The one you are looking at has "25 inches or roadway". If that's 25 x 5-1/2 it would be 14 straight sections, which is about what my set provides.
BTW, if you put track running down the street I'll bet the 5-1/2 width is in addition to the concrete trackway width.
B. You might want to look at the Walthers 933-3522 which is a brick wall set. It has 180 sq in of brick, but not in a "street" configuration. If you are showing brick on sidewalks, in alleys, or areas where it has been patched with asphalt, this might be a better (cheaper?) alternative.
KL
Dan,
That looks good. I wish I would have found out that I might be running brick before I laid my track. I'm not 100% sure the street is brick. The pictures just looked like they might be brick. The pictures were black and white and at a low angle. I plan on inviting a couple old codgers who grew up here over to play trains as soon as I get my switches installed.
Kurt,
My streets are much wider than 5 1/2. There is an open area where 5 tracks run across that might be all bricked. Those sheets might come in handy.
Chip,
What pattern was the brick laid in? Reason I ask is that there are a couple of decorative sections of brick paving in the strip mall parking lots hereabouts. One is running bond (the usual 'brick wall' pattern,) another is checkerboard (squares of two bricks each, bricks in each square at 90 degrees to the adjacent squares) and a third is echelon (all bricks at 45 degree angle to the curb, meeting in an infinite series of W shapes.)
Just another little detail to obsess over.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The Lincoln Highway in Omaha is "bond" with the long direction of the brick crosswise to the street.
Many of the streets in Phillie were "herringbone".
The cobblestone streets (actually a material called "Belgian block") were laid in a overlapping "fan" pattern.
Yeah, that's another option to try. My wife runs art enrichment programs for kids, and one of the things she uses is a self-hardening white clay. (She does real pottery, too, but for this program she doesn't have access to a kiln.) I'll have to ask about that stuff. I'm always the one who has to go to the art supply place and schlep those 25-pound boxes home, anyway.
I think getting the brick pattern on this stuff would be the tough part. You would still need a mold of some sort to do large areas, unless you're really detail-oriented and want to do it with dental tools. I'm not sure it would work with a latex mold, though.
Also, I'd imagine this stuff shrinks a bit as it hardens. Again, I'll ask the expert later today.
MisterBeasley wrote:I think getting the brick pattern on this stuff would be the tough part. You would still need a mold of some sort to do large areas, unless you're really detail-oriented and want to do it with dental tools. I'm not sure it would work with a latex mold, though.
We went to the train show today and I found something for your brick streets. It is called Kancali Latex Street Sections. At $2.50 a sheet that is cheaper than any scratch build road. We bought 2 sheets. The web site is www.kancali.com. He recommended dry brushing with a sponge brush brick red, darker red, and pink layers. It is thin enough that it should cover the ties nicely. If you want me to look into the bragdon further, I will, but the laytex sheets are so inexpensive and easy we will use the latex sheets.
Sue,
That is really cool.
Yeah, those are really a great idea, Sue. It seems to be the answer to everything. What kind of paint did they recommend using? Will the latex take cheap acrylics, or do you need to use something else, like, well, latex paint maybe?
For a lot of this, the Frugal Modeller might get a sheet and make a resin casting of it, and then use that casting as a mold to make more latex. But, at that price, it's hard to justify all the extra work. In fact, I'm not sure you could even beat that price.
The instructions say to prime it with an automotive primer, and then latex paint. He liked those cheap sponge brushes.
MrB, I don't know how you could duplicate that for less. I am excited that it should fit over the ties on the flex track. I noticed that it was cheaper at the train show than on the web site. Most everything that we were interested in was full price, so we passed.