?? Wiring under the layout

[mikesmowers]

   What does everyone do to  end the rats nest of wires under the layout? I would to make mine easy to do maintaince on and be able to track down a burnt out bulb etc...Right now I have a lot of street lights and building interior lights and the underside of the layout is a nightmare to say the least. I have tried to orginize it some what but it seems that everytime I add a light or one burns out it is a major job to find out where the wires go to and come from. Ae there any secrets that I could use to make it simpler to work on?

  On the West end of the layout I installed 2 buss wires from 2 wall warts running down the center of the layout and attached the light wires to this buss wire. Is this a good idea or is there something better to do.                  Thanks                 Mike
 

[CSX_road_slug]

I use different-colored insulation for the 'positive' wire on each track, and have the associated 'negative' black wire bundled with it so I know both those wires are for a given track.  My schematic track diagram on the switchboard has each track represented in the color that matches its positive wire.  Cuts my troubleshooting time WAY down..!

[MisterBeasley]

Me too, but I wish I could say I'd been more rigorous about my color-coding.  Still, it's not too bad.  I bought a half-dozen spools of different-colored wires when I started my layout, and that's worked out pretty well.

I've run all of my non-track lighting through a panel with a bunch of toggle switches.  There's a switch for streetlights, a switch for yard lights, a switch for LED signals, etc.  So, I can start at that switch and trace any individual circuit, aided mostly by wire color, too.

[mobilman44]

Hi,

I just finished a rewire of my 11x15 3 level layout - with the goal of simplifying it.  Of course I did not replace everything, but did reduce the number of blocks, and eliminated about 20 electrically controlled turnouts (to Caboose Hobbies throws), reduced the cab controls from three to two, and built out two new and easier to understand control panels.

The rewire utilized more color coded wiring, and just as important, I used a number of the "wire holders" to organize them and several of the new (to me) connectors and such to eliminate electrical tape, etc.

The result is a significant improvement, but it still could be better.  The really good news is that I learned a few things to incorporate in that next layout which should make a difference.

In short (no pun intended), you may want to consider a rewire, as biting the bullet now may be a whole lot easier on you than dealing with what you have currently.

Oh, the most difficult electrical problem I have ever had to resolve was caused by a staple that I used originally to organize wires under the layout.  The staple did not initially short out two wires, but did so after a couple of years of movement of other wires as they were adjusted.  There are NO staples on this layout anymore!

ENJOY,

Mobilman44   

[selector]

First rule is to keep wires as short as possible.

Second, use terminal blocks or suitcase connectors if they'll help to reduce the octopi under the layout.

Third, you can use eyelets, hooks, staples (pre-shot into the wood and then levered outward to pass wires beneath them), or just use tape.

You can use multiple colours, as long as you remember what the code is for wire that is meant for the "outer rails" and which colours for the "inner rails".  You face each side of your layout, and all the far rails in pairs are one colour, and all the inner are another.  I used four wire cable with yellow, green, red, and black insulated wires contained in a while vinyl tubing, and kept the darker coulours oriented to the back rails.  That meant black or green, with their counterparts being red or yellow respectively.  So far, no crossed wires, and I must have twenty different sets of feeders between yard segments and the main with sidings, plus the two industrial spurs.

[Greg H.]

Zip ties to bundle wires from common areas and keep them from dangling every which way or coming loose - tags to keep everything identified, if you're not color coded.

Keep plenty of notes ( in a safe place ).

Draw it out on paper before actualy starting can let you see problems before hand, and gives you a guide to work with.

A ohm meter with long leads, will let you test as you go rather than trying to trouble shoot after everything is done.

[tomikawaTT]

My simple (or maybe not so simple) solution:

1. Connect every wire through terminal blocks.  Typically, the wire runs from a panel control to the panel terminal block, through a wire guide close to the panel to a terminal block at or close to the place where it will connect to the rail, switch machine or whatever, to the 'end user.'
2. Give every wire a short, simple designator, which is marked at every terminal, wire guide and panel connection.  For example, NNT3 is the power wire from the Nonomura zone panel to the third turnout in the main track through the zone.  At the NNT3 terminal block NNT3 connects through diodes to NNT3N (power to straight route coil) and NNT3S (power to diverging route coil,) which in turn connect to the coils of a 2-coil switch machine.  The common coil wire connects to a bus, T(urnout)Com(mon), which extends tree-fashion around the entire layout.  The TCom terminal on terminal block NNT3 is one of the most distant twigs.
3. Locate all terminal blocks and wire guides just behind the fascia line, faced so the designators can be read by a person sitting in a chair in the aisleway.  Wires from 'end users' to terminal blocks are brought out to the fascia line along the tops of the (L girder system) joists, with all right angle bends, then follow the fascia to the terminal block.  Terminal-to-terminal runs between terminal blocks run along the fascia line.
4. Bundle parallel wires, and anchor them to the benchwork.  I personally use twisty-ties every 200(+-)mm.
5. Document EVERYTHING!!!  And keep the documents (circuit diagrams, terminal lists etc.) in a single binder or file folder in hard copy.  In all documentation, keep the nomenclature consistent, and provide a glossary for the stranger who might someday have a need to figure out exactly what CNNYX1 and CNNYX2 do for a living.  (Connections between SPDT switches in the power circuit of a relay which has to be controllable from either the Nonomura zone panel or the CTC master panel.)

Since I'm wiring with salvaged wire, I don't always have (fill in color of choice) wire available.  With clear alphanumeric designators at every terminal that wire connects to, I don't have to color match the various segments.

My system is somewhat labor intensive up front, but pays off with bulletproof electricals for the long haul.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with bulletproof electricals, analog DC, MZL system)

 

[nbrodar]

To start I use color coding:

• Black - track common
• Red - track control
• Green - accesory common
• White - accessory (turnouts and lighting) control (I use a bi-polar power supply)
• Yellow - signal control

I also label everything.  Each run is labeled on the back of the panel, at each terminal block, at several points along the run, and where the feeder passes through the layout top.  I use plastic cable clamps to bundle the wire together.

Nick

[cwclark]

I use tie wraps to keep it neat and in a bundle, terminal strips to split the power to different electrical components, and electrician's identification tape. The tape has a number on it that goes around the wire  and sticks securely to the wire. I place them on the wire just just inches from the electrical component the wire is feeding power to and then I put one at the terminal block where the wire gets it's power feed source.  Making a notebook with schematics of all your wiring can help too so that you can look it up for future reference.

[ngartshore350]

Hi Mike,

My father's layout had the spaghetti look and it was terrible for tracking down issues!

Having worked in the Electrical Industry for a few years I have used a few of their ideas, many others have already mentioned.

I use cable ties, cable mounts, colour coding (color - sorry we spell it differently here in Australia, don't know why) and wire markers. Still a little messy as you can see but much better than my fathers efforts. I used terminal strips to help disassembly of the layout easier and the wires are labelled both sides so if one is removed, I know what I am looking for when I reconnect again.

Because I bought the wire in 100m lengths I knew it was going to be difficult to get lots of different colours. I basically used Yellow & Blue for points/switches & auxiliaries and Orange & Red for track power. The most useful is the wire markers, you can buy a special labeller but because of the cost I just got the size right in Excel and printed them on cards.

Here is a link to the wire markers I used: http://www.bradyid.com/bradyid/catalog/productDetailView.do/100852/~0/0/~0/BRADYID_US_DMC-1.3%252F3-15/~0/~0/~0/~0.html

Hope you work something out!

Regards,

Nigel

BTW: The wires are hanging down at the back because the control panel slides in and out.

[mobilman44]

Ngartshore350,

   Wow, you sound like a terrific son!!!!  Your Dad must be proud!

ENJOY,

Mobilman44

 

[willy6]

I use those electrical tags you find at the home improvement stores. They are adhesive and can be alphanumerical. When I wired something, I tag it and write it down in my electrical diagram notebook. But i do make sure all GROUNDS/NEGATIVE DC is black wire. And I commited all my DCC wiring to be RED and WHITE only with number tags showing which block it is.

[Budliner]

I seen someone use a file box like an electical box it was awsome

 

K

[Phoebe Vet]

ngartshore350:

One suggestion.  If you put that wiring block on a separate piece of wood with a hinge at the top you can swing it down to work on it.  You then don't have to crawl under the benchwork to troubleshoot or modify.

[tomikawaTT]

ngartshore350:

One suggestion.  If you put that wiring block on a separate piece of wood with a hinge at the top you cans swing it down to work on it.  You then don't have to crawl under the benchwork to troubleshoot or modify.

GOOD idea!

I think I'll use this for some of my terminal blocks where under-benchwork access is limited and a vertical block would extend below the bottom of the adjacent L-girder.  It's especially easy for me since my terminal blocks are plywood, with small machine screws for terminals.

If solid wire is used for hookups, make sure that it will be rigged to twist rather than bend when the hinged unit is moved.  And minimize the number of times the wire is twisted.  (From my experience, #20/22 wire will tolerate a 90 degree twist over a foot or more of length hundreds of times, but will only take a very few cycles of right-angle bending before breaking at the bend point.)

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[johncolley]

FWIW: Here's something I have found helpful. I save all the little plastic tag things off bread and roll wrappers. They come in different colors and I write on them with marking pens what the circuit is. I also use the small colored tie-wraps to match the tag colors, for bundling. It cuts down on the bird's nest/spiderweb, and makes things easier to trace.                           jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

[Medina1128]

I used Phoebe's method. My control panel is in two parts. The switches with the schematic of the layout is my actual control panel. The distribution panel is underneath. The upper control panel is hinged and swings up, while the distribution is hinged and swings out. Everything wired to those panels is tie-wrapped and labeled. As far as the structure lighting goes, I have multiple blocks, so that I can turn on different buildings' lights so that some lights on the same street are out, while the others are lit. Look on your street, or any business district; you'll notice that not ALL of the lights in the same area are on at the same time.

[Marty on Vancouver Island]

Hi Mike:

As an aside; (I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet) starting out with, or converting to, DCC cuts down tremendously on the amount of wire used for track power. As I built my second-last layout just over 12 years ago, it became apparent that it was going to cost me dearly just for the additional number of rotary switches I would require for the layout to operate the way I wanted it to, not to mention the miles of wire and all the other necessary accessories. That was when I decided to take the plunge into DCC.

Colour-coding is definitely the way to go.  I use one pair of colours just for track power. (In my case, black and white 14ga bus and 18ga [or lighter] feeder wires.) A different pair of colours is used for turnout motor control (of which I have five only - most are hand-thrown). Because three of the turnout motors can be activated from more than one location around the layout, LEDs were used at each location to indicate which way the turnout is thrown. Different wire again was used to wire the LEDs (three of a 4-wire 24ga cable). If I decide to add lighting effects (structures, street lights, crossing lights, etc.) down the road, I will use different wire again for that purpose.

In the previous paragraph, I mentioned four areas that require wiring. Each of these (4) groups of wires are kept seperate from one another as they traverse around the underside of the layout, hanging in their own cable straps (or what ever you choose - but no staples, as already mentioned). The track power is supplied by the DCC unit. The turnout motors get their power from their own 12v transformer that is plugged into a power bar under the layout, as is the 9v transformer that powers the turnout LEDs. Another seperate transformer would be used for lighting effects. Everything is kept [seperate].

Cheers, Marty on Vancouver Island  

[Anonymous]

I am going to give my age away here but here goes-I remember when all power lines went down the alley and where connected to a house they were run between the power in the alley into the house just under the eaves {overhang}.On my layout I have all accessory building light {which total app. 20 buildings}wires strung on telephone poles and at end of each street I have connectors to that certain street wires that go under the table where I have flex track mounted a few inches below table and connect the wires to them with aligator clips.               It might take a while to solder all wires from buildings to those wires behind the building running on the telephone poles but at my age it is easier on the back than working under the table.

[ndbprr]

I've pretty much used telephone wiring in the past for nearly everything.  If you get the motherlode of a cable with 100 pairs they all come color coded and wrapped together.  Smaller cables have 24 pairs as I remember but the same idea.  so if you have a brown with white wire its mate will be white with brown.  It makes it pretty simple to trace.  nothing replaces cabling the entire underlayout mess though.  IT keeps you from snagging stuff and out of the way.

[Anonymous]

I like Marty use just four wires(14 ga).  Black and red for track and green and white for building lights.  These were run along the outer edge under the top and secured with the brass eyelets to the table top.  Suitcase connectors connect to 2-3 sections of track from the main supply. Again each with the same color code.  

Layout is currently running DC with only a couple of spurs controled with Atlas (A & B) cab control switches for power when needed.  All turnouts are ground throws so that's less wiring. 

Just my 2 cents.  

[grayfox1119]

Color coding the wiring should be the number one thing that every modeler does when building a layout. Having a layout already in a state of massive bundles of wires with no color coding to speak of, is a stress builder just waiting to bounce on you and ruin your day. Talk about a bad hair wire day!!!!!!

It won't get any better, so start redoing your wiring with a set color code plan that you have marked on a schematic of your layout. I use colored pencils to draw all my schematics, this has served me well for many years.

[HHPATH56]

Due to expansion of my layout from a simple C to an around a 24'x24' room, it became necessary to divide the wiring into four "power districts", instead of the original "central control panel". I also switched from DC to DCC, with four tethered "walk around" plug ins.  With 96 electrically operated switches, rewiring was necessary, for the switches to four "24 screw top double terminals" for each 24 switches.  The "common wire bus feeder wires" are soldered to a bare #14 wire, and then coonected to one of the four transformers. Four "power district" probes, then controls 24 of the 96 switches, since it is far faster to compare the numbered track diagram section to the numbered double 24 pins, than to have to dial a "four digit DCC code".    One other thing that was not mentioned, is the use of a crawler with an angled backrest for under the counter wiring, when extensive rewiring is required.        Bob

[Eric-ATSF]

For attaching the wires under the layout you may want to use Velcro (also ref. to as Hook Loop Fastener or hook and fastener, depending on who makes it).

Take piece of Velcro approx. 2-3 inches long (longer/shorter depending on your needs) and staple it in the middle to the underside of the layout. Using this you can keep everything nice and neat and have a quick easy way to unfasten the wires if you need to get to them.

 You can buy rolls of Velcro in different colors and different widths.

I bought mine from http://www.fastenation.com/

They call it One-Wrap  tape and here is a direct link to it http://www.fastenation.com/category.php?id=297&crumbs=145,297

I bought mine by the roll, the only gotcha with ordering from them is they have a $50.00 minimum order. 

A 25 yard of 1/2 inch wide "One-Wrap tape" cost $12.75.

Hope this helps.

[Teebs]

Hi - I learned this idea from an individual whom I had purchased a partially built layout.  This genetleman was an IBM Engineer of some sort and had gotten into the hobby and had to get out shrotly thereafter due to family illness.  At any rate, he used PVC pipe pieces as support to carry bundles of wire. I will try to describe:  use 1" diameter white pvc pipe or 1.5 " if you have larger bundles and cut small ends off the pipe in 3/4 to 1" lengths.  Then cut the round piece at one end so you can flex it open to capture the wire bundle inside of the pipe - drill a small hole to take a screw so it can be mounted under the layout in strategic locations  where bundles will run. The flex cut should be situated on the upper side when mounted so the bundles will not simply fall out. The unique thing about this concept is if you have to dismantle a part of the bundle, you simply flex the pvc piece and pull it out - put it back when done - you do not have to cut and replace cable ties.  Not that ties do not have their place, but I was simply amazed at how efficient this was, simple in concept and literally inexpensive.  A 4 foot piece of pvc pipe would make no less than 48 of these little wire holders.  The trick is to be patient in cutting them and take your time - use a jig saw, circular saw or table saw, using caution of course.  To make the little cuts so the pipe will flex to accept wire bundles, I use a jigsaw or a large cut off wheel in a Dremel tool.  Hope this is helpful to all

 

Stephen Lee