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OK, I'm going to apologize in advance, this ends in a rant...Nobull:You're referring to the "substitution radius" which more determines how a train as a whole negotiates the turnout. (Or how it will look going thru it.) As opposed to the actual limiting minimum radius. Also this # shows how much less important the frog # is when considered against the minimum radius of the rest of the layout. #4: 29" R#5: 44" R#6: 56" R#8: 110" RBTW, Is the Atlas c83 #4 Custom Line a #4-1/2, as the c100's are? If so, that probably makes it acceptable for all but crossovers, full-length pass equip & 86' modern freight. IOW, certainly acceptable for spurs.Don:Take it easy on him. He's trying to make the right choice and not have regrets halfway thru construction. After all the rebuttal of the c100 here he's probably gone off and studied a 1000 photo's of various MRR's! He's coming to realize the difference in appearance of c83 and how much more realistic it looks, especially when combined with #8 turnouts.Are you saying that just because the equipment used doesn't technically warrant #8's that you wouldn't use them if you could fit them, at least in up front locations? Sure you would, you'd probably handlay #10's.He's developing an eye for detail, GOOD. Better now than 10 months into construction...As for everyone jumping on Joe-Daddy:IMHO c100 when properly weathered and ballasted is surely passable. Is c83 more realistic? Of course it is. In most cases c70 is probably the preferred size rail to maintain scale to the prototype mainline, but that will really start tapping your wallet. (As will any track from ME, Shinohara, and Peco)There's something called the "law of diminishing returns" which I feel applies here. If I could relate it to stereo/home-theater equipment: Spend $100 on a surround sound receiver and you get a piece of crap. Lets call it a 1 on a scale of 1 -10. Spend $700 - $800 and you've achieved a vast improvement, high fidelity even, maybe a 7 or 8. Spend $3500 - $5000 and get a 9. Dump $10,000 (or more) on individual components to get your performance to a 10. Do you think that's worth it? I'll stay with lucky #7 every time. Most bang for the buck baby!To relate it to this thread: Atlas c100 would probably score about a 5 or 6, Atlas c83 a 7, with ME, Shinohara, etc. at an 8 or 9, and finally handlaid c70 a solid 10 out of 10.This hobby is filled with compromises. We're forced to make them at every turn. Why suddenly is nobody willing to accept them when it comes to the track?Does it take 2-3x the time (or more) to handlay, as opposed to installing pre-fab track? C'mon, lets be serious here.... BTW, how much are those Fast-Tracks jigs again??? The time and effort invested in handlaying is IMO worth plenty even if you don't want to put a dollar value on it. Also I think the man said it was his first layout, which will most likely be dismantled when he attains more room in the not so distant future. What exactly are the chances of salvaging hand laid track? ‘Cause it would surely make me want to cry to lose all that effort!Secondly if he attempts this and finds it beyond his skill level (or just gets frustrated by the apparent lack of progress) isn't he far more likely to throw in the towel on the whole hobby?Handlaying is an art, and its appearance and reliability are greatly appreciated and respected. But this is just not something that should be attempted by everyone. Did anyone see that thread about a certain member who had a friend that was, how shall I say this, a disaster waiting to happen? I've seen enough posts on this forum that would indicate it would be prudent not to give immediate encouragement for everyone to go for the gold right out of the gate. Actually I feel it's down right irresponsible...Sorry again about the long post, but I had to get that off my chest.P.S. You tell'em Magnus!
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