So far this thread is definatly changing my mind... I thought athearn was good. Shows what I know.
What about Atlas Trainman? Those are a bit more expensive/cheaper (depends on car) than athearn, but do they look good/run well?
Don't ignore the used stuff that any good hobbyshop will have, either.
Train Miniature $4.00 (and a fair bit of enjoyable work)
Proto1000 - bodyshell only ($2.49 plus trucks and couplers, and quite a bit of mostly enjoyable work)
LifeLike (Proto-No-Thousand) - ($.98 plus trucks and couplers and the usual helping of fun)
You can get good deals on used stuff, including higher quality stuff if you're willing to do some work on building, fixing and/or detailing. I picked-up 3 Intermountain composite gondola kits at $9.00 each 'cause nobody wanted undec. I also got a half dozen undecorated Intermountain drop-bottom gondola kits at $8.00 apiece. I built them all, kept two, and sold the others at $35.00 a shot. Every el cheapo car that you work on should add to your capabilities to make silk purses (or at least decent freight cars) out of some old pigs. As you increase your skills and your knowledge of the prototype, you can also create models unique to your abilities. I learned this stuff when I didn't have the money to buy the best (or even second or third best), and I still practise it now because I find it enjoyable. I'll admit that it's not for everybody, but that's another reason why I find it so appealing.
Wayne
Hoople So far this thread is definatly changing my mind... I thought athearn was good. Shows what I know.
Don't turn-up your nose at Athearn, either. The car below is an Athearn that I picked-up used for a couple of bucks. I removed the roof, took about 6" off the height, then put the roof back on. I gave it new ends from Tichy, rebuilt the underframe, reworked the doors, and added brake gear from the parts box. Like almost all of my cars, I also added wire grabirons and drop steps, too. Some trucks and couplers, paint, and lettering from C-D-S completed the job. Probably $10.00 or $12.00 for a unique car.
Doctor Wayne, I'm not the Modify-it-yourself guy. I like to get some rollingstock, and run it. Maybe if it has coupling issues I'd change to kadees. If it doesn't, I'd just leave it as it is and run it.
Doc, I was reading your post about how you liked Athearn cars and had to chuckle to myself. By the time you get done with one, the only thing that's still Athearn is the name stamped somewhere on the underframe.
I thiink there are basicaly two different types of people here. There's one group (including me) that remembers when the only way you had a detailed engine, boxcar, or structure was when you did it yourself. Even brass usually required a good craftsman for paint and decals. I remember some of the first factory painted brass and some modelers saying this marked the beginning of the end of real craftsmen in the hobby. Wrong, of course, but I think what I'm trying to say is that we all took a lot of pride in what we alone did to a boxcar like Wayne's. It was unique and it was us.
The second group is younger and never had to paste paper sides on wood blocks to make boxcars. They've always had at least Athearn and then the Proto, Branchline, and now RTR items that are very well detailed right from the box. The point is to have a thing that looks real, not that it has to be something unique that only they could make. I can remember the days of visiting layouts and cringing at some of the junk that guys made. It wasn't bcause of lack of trying, they just weren't good at it. Now almost anyone can have a pretty nice looking layout even if they don't have the talent of a Doc Wayne. I think this is a really good thing. Doc can still make his "used to be" Athearn boxcars but a young person can run a train that looks almost as nice next to Doc at a club and not be embarrased. The best of both worlds
You're right: one size definitely doesn't fit all. The diversity in this hobby is one of the things that keeps it going.
Maybe I've got a different perpective on this question since I also semi-seriously colect older HO items. Perhaps I've grown nostalgic in my old age, but I get a kick out of tracking down and operating stuff I didn't have a chance to own 50 odd years ago.
As a result I've played around with a lot of older stuff and can offer some comments on the operational posibilities of older items. Most of the plastic cars can be made into excellently operating models simply by replacing the wheel sets and equiping them with new couplers, properly installed. This is nothing new. Back in "the day" we routinely pitched factory trucks, installed Central Valley trucks and k-d couplers. Today we've got much better wheel sets, and simply replacing the old ones with a quality product will cure 99% of rolling and derailment problems.
As far as painting and detailing are concerned, each modeler has to decide for himself what he can live with. No model is perfect, and most of us live with oversized flanges, couplers, rail, and other conventions of the hobby. If incorrect/lack of detail, and innaccurate paint, numbers or reporting data bother you, you've got two choices: Change it, or don't use it.
That said, for most of us, most of these cars are still useful for creating a reasonable impression of an operating railroad which is what we are after. Afterall everyone has different interests. If you really want to create the most accurate string of rolling stock, go for it, and I'll be glad to admire your accurate modeling. On the other hand I'll also appreciate the railroad put together by the guy running nicely weathered bachman and tyco cars rolling thru great scenery.
And for you new guys, it can't be said often enough, the object of the hobby is to have fun, not to please the critics. The most dedicated rivet counters started out with the same basic equipment as everyone else. Their particular interests led them to research and improve the detail of their models based on that research. If that type of thing appeals to you, that's great, but it isn't the whole hobby.
JBB
I;m surprised to see Bowser as a tiop company. EVERY kit I've gotten them has rattled itself apart on straight and levl peieces of track or otherwise fallen apart.
I prefer Walthers, a little expensive, and not allways trustworthy, but mostly good) Athearn RTRs are always a must, (and similar quality to Walthers but cheaper) and Kadee if you wanna spurlge. Otherwise a little pricey, but worth every cent. Broadway Limited and Prcecision have some frieght, they aren't always reliable in releasing what they say they will, but hope is good. If you want a good, fun, easy kit that looks good, look no farther than Accurail. Alsio reccomend the Atlas
backmann/Lifelike hasn't let me down yet either. I'll give you that that they aren't always the same quality next to an Athearn or Walthers, but they aren't bad, especially if you weather or retouch them.
Stay away from the B;ueprints. Decent quality when done, but I usually prefer a kit that I don;t have to assemble the basic shell on.
And, if you like your cars, it isn't too hard to run out and get a couple cheapy Blueboxes, and abrrow the floorings on them. (Athearn kits have recently changed their weights, requiring you to purchase a seperate washer. about .99.....................or a bottle of Superglue...)
-Morgan
JBB wrote: And for you new guys, it can't be said often enough, the object of the hobby is to have fun, not to please the critics. The most dedicated rivet counters started out with the same basic equipment as everyone else. Their particular interests led them to research and improve the detail of their models based on that research. If that type of thing appeals to you, that's great, but it isn't the whole hobby.JBB
I know all about the critics, I love the guys at thge club who tell me I can't just pick a car up so he can get around me whilst I wait to switch and my tail is hanging a half a truck in the way or complaining because my new Presidential Limited doesn't yet have car numbers or reporting marks despite the rest of the club complimenting me.
I like today's Red Caoose RTR because of the great amount of detail they come with from China including applied ladders, detailed grab irons, coupler levers, and brake rigging. These are expensive if you don't want this level of detail, but cheap enough if you do want it. Adding coupler levers is one thing, but carefully taking off molded-on ladders and grab bars with a modeler's chisel is daunting. It's a lot of work to see light under grab bars and behind ladder rungs, but it makes a difference. I don't even attempt it on car ends. Changing running boards if you car has them is time consuming and not cheap. So, I appreciate cars that come this way already.
I replace couplers with Kadees, and wheelsets with Intermountain. Some metal wheelsets appear to be good, but they may have different width treads or different flanges than Intermountain. Intermountain wheelsets seem to be a good compromise between scale and reliability, and I like the way that they roll.
As to weight, I never understood the one ounce per car plus one ounce per inch idea. To me, a consistent weight per inch is better. Why should two six inch cars be an ounce heavier than one twelve inch car? I measure centerline of coupler to centerline of couple for weight. I check each car's weight on a digital postal scale and leave it alone (so far) if it is close enough. I might think differently if I were pulling a scale 2,500-6,000 foot train.
billrowe wrote: I like today's Red Caoose RTR because of the great amount of detail they come with from China including applied ladders, detailed grab irons, coupler levers, and brake rigging. These are expensive if you don't want this level of detail, but cheap enough if you do want it. Adding coupler levers is one thing, but carefully taking off molded-on ladders and grab bars with a modeler's chisel is daunting. It's a lot of work to see light under grab bars and behind ladder rungs, but it makes a difference. I don't even attempt it on car ends. Changing running boards if you car has them is time consuming and not cheap. So, I appreciate cars that come this way already.I replace couplers with Kadees, and wheelsets with Intermountain. Some metal wheelsets appear to be good, but they may have different width treads or different flanges than Intermountain. Intermountain wheelsets seem to be a good compromise between scale and reliability, and I like the way that they roll. As to weight, I never understood the one ounce per car plus one ounce per inch idea. To me, a consistent weight per inch is better. Why should two six inch cars be an ounce heavier than one twelve inch car? I measure centerline of coupler to centerline of couple for weight. I check each car's weight on a digital postal scale and leave it alone (so far) if it is close enough. I might think differently if I were pulling a scale 2,500-6,000 foot train.
Red Caboose? Looked like a painful lot of parts to me.
Hoople wrote: So far this thread is definatly changing my mind... I thought athearn was good. Shows what I know.What about Atlas Trainman? Those are a bit more expensive/cheaper (depends on car) than athearn, but do they look good/run well?
Whats wrong with Athearn cars? Look closer at the photos posted in the weekly photo thread on this and other forums.You will see the majority of the modelers use Athearn cars.
The Atlas Trainman cars are good but,have molded on details and have metal trucks..I own several.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BaylorMax,
I saw your photo of a slope-back 0-6-0 in this forum (Freight Cars). I've been looking for a HO
engine of this type for some time. Who makes this type of engine?
Sorry to change the subject, but I don't know how to start a new topic.
Gene Lipnicky
Most Athearn is crap, and since you said you looking for good details, stay away from them. [very few roads], 34' Offset Hopper w/Peaked Ends and w/Flat Ends. Most of the paint schemes offered are inaccurate.
Some is bogus and some is pretty good. You can't make a blanket statement about Athearn. Their intermodel well cars are nice, the 57' mechanical reefers aren't bad. The upgraded MDC Thrall coal cars are quite nice and prototypical. I've been snatching them up left and right. Same for the 5-bay Ornter coal cars. Very nice. Some of the other Athearn stuff may not have etched metal roof walker but are pretty good copies of prototypes like the CF5250 4-bay covered hopper and the CF4740. Some of the box cars aren't bad either but you have to check your prototype.
Model Die Casting is now part of Athearn. Most of their models are as bad as Athearn.
Most? I don't know but some are and some aren't. The Thrall coal gons, 5-bay rapid discharage, 2-bay covered hoppers, FMC 3-bay low hip covered hopper, all are very nice.
Be careful of sweeping statements. Many makers paint bogus models but also have nice fairly accurate models too. Get a Color Guild to Freight Cars book by Morning Sun books for your favorite RR and start comparing them to the models out there.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
The OP was asking about car appropriate for the 1950s era. None of the cars you've mentioned are appropriate for that era. They're all modern cars. Athearn does quite well for post steam era equipment, say prototypes after 1960.
riogrande5761 wrote:Some is bogus and some is pretty good. You can't make a blanket statement about Athearn. Their intermodel well cars are nice, the 57' mechanical reefers aren't bad. The upgraded MDC Thrall coal cars are quite nice and prototypical. I've been snatching them up left and right. Same for the 5-bay Ornter coal cars. Very nice. Some of the other Athearn stuff may not have etched metal roof walker but are pretty good copies of prototypes like the CF5250 4-bay covered hopper and the CF4740. Some of the box cars aren't bad either but you have to check your prototype.
Again, your speaking about models that have a prototype built after the stated time period of the OP, and thus not germaine to the discussion.I'm not going to spend a couple of days going through every paint scheme and model and declaring it prototypical or not. According to RPI's NEB&W website, the vast majority of Athearn and MDC paint schemes are bogus, even on their prototypical model.
riogrande5761 wrote: Most? I don't know but some are and some aren't. The Thrall coal gons, 5-bay rapid discharage, 2-bay covered hoppers, FMC 3-bay low hip covered hopper, all are very nice.Be careful of sweeping statements. Many makers paint bogus models but also have nice fairly accurate models too. Get a Color Guild to Freight Cars book by Morning Sun books for your favorite RR and start comparing them to the models out there.Model Die Casting is now part of Athearn. Most of their models are as bad as Athearn.
trainnut57 wrote: My favorite rolling stock is whatever I have in my collection. I have a modest number of freight cars (about 220) in all makes-Athearn (my personal favorite), Bachmann, Tyco, AHM, IHC, Proto, Walthers, etc. I have a limited budget for my RR since retireing, so I am also conservative. ...I haven't met a cheap looking car yet that I couldn't make look good-another aspect of the hobby. THe bottom line is, "Best Cars" are whatever you decide they are and that they don't break the bank when you purchase either one or a set. I also find a lot of good cars cheap at Train Shows. ...Finally, proper maintenance can make or break any car, cheap or expensive. Keep them lubricated and wheels clean and the cheapest car will keep right up there with the expensive one.
Trainnut;
Truer words could never be spoken. I have cars from Mantua/Tyco, Marx, (yes 1 Marx),all the way to Westerfield, F&C and a number of scratchbuilts, so far over 300. To get a good looking and running car, RTR or Kits, a good maintanence checkup should be done. This would include all that you've mentioned, couplers, trucks wheels, and something I haven't seen much comment on are the bolsters, which can also cause more problems if they're not true.
Here is a good example. I took off all the molded on grabs, ladders, brake wheel housing and replaced them with A-Line grabs, some left over short ladders from the scrap box, new trucks, couplers, and paint and decals. Is it superdetailed/contest quality? No, I didn't want to do it that way. It is, however, a very nice Layout Quality car. It was a nice project for a Sunday afternoon. What's the make?
It started life as one of those yellow UP gons from Tyco! Car cost me nuthin'. A friend gave me a bunch of cars he wasn't gonna use, I picked the ones that had potential, and will probably get rid of the others.
And if you model the Southern, its the ONLY prototypically correct gon of this type available, kit or rtr. Decals were originally $1 when purchased many years ago, Floquil SRR freight car red, about $.50 worth. KDs were roughly $1-1.50 a pair.
The only limit to what you do in this hobby is just that, YOU! If you have more money than time, RTR would be your best bet, but I believe that you're also limiting yourself to what only you can buy! Do some work yourself, and not only is there the pride that comes from building/bashing it, you also have made it unique, but you also learn some very invaluable skills along the way.
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
I know that Bachmann makes an 0-6-0 with a sloped tender - just bought one (DC but it can be converted - if you can find room for the decoder)
Villy
I have to agree with Mike,
I have a real cross section of kits and RTR. All have good and bad points. One just adjusts to the level that you can accept. (I am no rivet counter) not enough time in this world for that and still have the fun and relaxation I'm looking for.
Lately my purchases as well have been Bachman Silver Series. They are high-middle-of -the -road quality and suit my needs well. Kits are fun as well as long as they are more involved than the shake the box ones and yet not so detailed that you are spending a week or two drilling holes and fitting wires that will never be seen. (For me that is not what I want out of the hobby)
But that is why this is the greatest hobby in the world. It can be whatever and to every extent that you want it to be. Take it to your limit and go from there. It is your hobby not mine that you are working on. Make sure you enjoy the trip. I sure am...............
James:1 Verse:5
The "Wobbly" wobbles on in the Great White North.
Johnboy out..
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
Again, your speaking about models that have a prototype built after the stated time period of the OP, and thus not germaine to the discussion.
It is "germaine" in that it addressed your blanket statement calling Athearn/MDC stuff mostly crap. The diservice that kind of statement does to new modelers is to steer them away from a source of models that may hold some value to them. Athearn and MDC do sell some "steam era" items, at least late steam era. I can't speak to the accuracy of them since I was born after steam was gone and prefer to model what I grew up seeing. However, even if many or most paint jobs are bogus on models which are fairly good copies of some steam era prototypes, it becomes a treasure hunt to match up some of those models which do match. That can actually be part of the fun and challenge of finding and aqcuring models for a RR and era.
I'm not going to spend a couple of days going through every paint scheme and model and declaring it prototypical or not. According to RPI's NEB&W website, the vast majority of Athearn and MDC paint schemes are bogus, even on their prototypical model.
Thats fine. I'll will suggest to anyone hunting down models that they need to get some good reference books and compare frieght cars of their era with those offered by all the manufacturers. I've been doing that for the last 10 years and still get shot down by the rivit counters sometimes but its been a learning process and I know that matching to the prototype isn't always possible due to what we have to chose from - we have some items which are stand-in's or close enough too the prototype.
Rio Grande fan in NYC territory.
riogrande5761 wrote: .... I'll suggest to anyone hunting down models that they need to get some good reference books and compare frieght cars of their era with those offered by all the manufacturers. I've been doing that for the last 10 years and still get shot down by the rivit counters sometimes but its been a learning process and I know that matching to the prototype isn't always possible due to what we have to chose from - we have some items which are stand-in's or close enough too the prototype.Rio Grande fan in NYC territory.
.... I'll suggest to anyone hunting down models that they need to get some good reference books and compare frieght cars of their era with those offered by all the manufacturers. I've been doing that for the last 10 years and still get shot down by the rivit counters sometimes but its been a learning process and I know that matching to the prototype isn't always possible due to what we have to chose from - we have some items which are stand-in's or close enough too the prototype.
A good suggestion, and, as a sometimes-rivet-counter (I often lose count ) , I'd say don't worry too much about criticism unless it's the constructive kind. Everybody takes their own pleasure from this hobby, whether it be slavish fidelity to prototype, acceptance of models that are "good enough", or "who cares, I like it". You need only be concerned if you are not having fun.