FORUM CLINIC: Picking the best DCC system

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gogetherus
Q.1 Is any of this onboard system salvageable to DCC?
Q.2 Can I get wiring specs for new "dcc - ready" locos so that I can wire the onboard thottles into these new locos? (Using existing circuit boards) I run N - HO and G locos.

Q1: No you can't use Onboard anything with DCC. Totally different technology.

Q2: DCC ready locos simply use a standard plug and socket arrangement to make installing and removing decoders quick and easy. If you are into soldering your own plugs, yes you could wire an Onboard receiver to a DCC plug and then have plug and play Onboard.

DCC ready locos typically have a little extra room around the loco weight for a decoder, but your Onboard receivers are far larger than most decoders, so you will still be cutting and fitting I'm afraid.

Since you can get an NCE Powercab for $139 from Tony's Trains and your basic decoder is now down to $15 in quantity, I'm not sure why you would want to keep going with 10+ year old technology at this point. One of these days your Onboard system's going to give up the ghost, and then you'll *have* to switch if you still want command control with sound.

[Anonymous]

Slightly off topic - I own an old " Onboard" system - 5 amp power supply - 2 tethered control pads - 4 loco thottles - all in excellent shape.
My 3 yrs. experience with the onboard system (in the 90's) was favorable except for the installation of the thottles in each loco - too much hacking and cutting.
Q.1 Is any of this onboard system salvageable to DCC?
Q.2 Can I get wiring specs for new "dcc - ready" locos so that I can wire the onboard thottles into these new locos? (Using existing circuit boards) I run N - HO and G locos.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jnichols

Joe,

I can't believe I haven't checked out your website before now. There's a ton of great stuff there! I will contact you via your railfan.net email address if that's ok with you. I will be out of town the next couple of days on business, but I'll contact you when I return.

I look forward to this little project!

Jeff

Jeff:

Glad you found my website helpful. Ideally, if you have some questions you would like me to answer, go join my forum and post your questions there. Then everyone who visits my website will benefit. [swg]

See:
http://model-trains-video.com/forum/index.php

[Anonymous]

TomyT: If I was going to get face to face with the MFGERs, I think I would try to get some hands on with the throttles, and ask questions on ease of programing from an intuitive stand point . I think the other areas to address would be computer interfaceing for programing ( althought I read recently a comment that the amount of programming is really not that much of a time consuming process if you are actually running trains) decoders, and to create a library of locomotive programming.
I think the consisting examples here are a good measure of the ease of use of the different systems, if they have a "running demo" putting a consist together would give you a good idea of ease of use.
Have fun at Springfield, and do some good reaearch. Let us know your impressions.
Will

[spidge]

One of the mosy important factors for me is if a non RR visitor asks to run trains can I give them a throttle and some simple dirrections and off they go. More focus on the layout rather than the controls.

[tomytuna]

Going to Springfield show on 28th...sole purpose is to purchase new DCC systems fof my layout...Hope to spend time with mfg's at the show and make finale decision...any last minute thoughts from anyone?

[jnichols]

Joe,

I can't believe I haven't checked out your website before now. There's a ton of great stuff there! I will contact you via your railfan.net email address if that's ok with you. I will be out of town the next couple of days on business, but I'll contact you when I return.

I look forward to this little project!

Jeff

[jfugate]

I've owned Lenz and EasyDCC. I've also used NCE quite a bit, and read their manuals extensively.

I'd like to see some postings of what evaluation criteria people would like to see that weren't in the MR review.

That would give me an idea of how to start making the list. I agree that the details ought to be worked out offline via email, then the "draft" posted here for comment and review.

I also am very busy, just having signed a contract for a whole bunch of new video work, not to mention I'm deep into the production of my how-to series volume 4 on Scenery.

[waltersrails]

don't know the best but i like bachmanns.

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

How about we take the chart as published in MR and fix the errors?

--Randy

Randy,

While this is a place to start, I think we need to include some of the more advanced stuff for people looking at all the different variables. That list from MR is only a small snippet of a features list in my mind.

Jeff

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Jeff:

I'm game.

What features would you list?

Joe,

I think a lot of people don't even realize all the things that can be done with most of the systems, so I think a comprehensive list is in order. My biggest concern is the jargon everyone is using right now. When manufactures say "my system supports consisting", you and I both know that could mean a number of things, and I think a better explanation of what actually does support would help a great deal.

What systems are you most knowledgable with? Having only had the MRC PA for a couple of months hardly constitutes me as an authority, but I have had Digitrax systems for more than a few years now. I've also got experience with Lenz and the CVP Airwire system, although I'm not sure the Airwire system applies here. My only other claim to fame is a background with the MTH DCS system. Again, I'm not really sure this one should be included either.

The only problem I have is time, and the limited amount I can devote to this. Maybe we could colaborate via email and put the list together off the forum and then just post the results?

Let me know what you want to tackle, and what systems you feel more comfortable with. Also if you know a fellow forumite that might have experience with a system we don't, see if you can enlist their help as well.

Jeff

[rrinker]

How about we take the chart as published in MR and fix the errors?

--Randy

[jfugate]

Jeff:

I'm game.

What features would you list?

[jnichols]

Joe,

You and I should get together and post a feature by feature comparison for people looking into the different DCC systems. While my experience is limited to Digitrax, Lenz and MRC, I'm sure there are others who could help fill in the blanks. I'll bet 10% or better of all the questions asked on this forum are about DCC, and I'd wager most of them are about what DCC system and componnents to buy.

Let me know if this is something you would be interested in. I realize you've already donated a ton of time explaining things in this post, but I've enjoyed reading the responses from you and others a great deal and think a good non biased comparison would really help people who were out shopping!

Jeff

[jfugate]

I'm a different Joe, but I'll comment since I'm the one who started this topic way back when.

It all depends on what's most important to you. If cost counts the most and DCC features set is definitely secondary, the MRC's an okay system. However that's going to change very soon here once NCE gets their PowerCab product released. The PowerCab will be in the $140 range, which is only $20 more than an MRC Prodigy Express system. The Digitrax Zephyr starter system is about $160, and is available today, which is another option for $40 more than a Prodigy Express. The Zephyr is a whole lot more system and worth the extra $40, IMO.

MRC systems tend to be rather limited and somewhat of a dead-end if you expect to live with the system for a long time and expand it as your interests grow. MRC systems do not have a computer interface, which immediately rules out a whole crop of *free* software tools you might otherwise use to program decoders and other system setup aids.

If you don't plan to run more than two trains at a time, have no desire to ever move to wireless throttles, and expect your layout will always remain in the realm of a 4x8 in size and scope, then an MRC system might be an okay choice. Not a great choice if you care about feature set, but an OK one if *cheap* is at the top of your list.

[ramoutandabout]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JPM335

First off, you definently want to go with Digitrax over MRC. But any decoders work with any DCC system as long as the adressing is supported. 2 digit adress locos will work on any system. 4 digit adress locos will work on only systems that support 4 digit adressing. But this has nothing to do with the decoder. When you program the adress you decide if it is 2 or 4 digit. Also dont use MRC decoders, theyre junk.

ok joe why go digitrax over mrc

[Anonymous]

First off, you definently want to go with Digitrax over MRC. But any decoders work with any DCC system as long as the adressing is supported. 2 digit adress locos will work on any system. 4 digit adress locos will work on only systems that support 4 digit adressing. But this has nothing to do with the decoder. When you program the adress you decide if it is 2 or 4 digit. Also dont use MRC decoders, theyre junk.

[ramoutandabout]

ok if i go with a MRC express what type of decorder do i want to use i asume they make ther own but what about broadway limitied thanks
i have really enjoyed this foroum but man im not sure what i want lol
i think the ease of the mrc out ways most things
its between the mrc and the digitrax zephyr

[loathar]

Thanks for that reveiw. Coming from a one man operation that can't set his own digital watch, I'm sold on the PA system.(simple is good). I've listened to Digitrax people and it kind of makes my head spin. I understand how folks need a Digitrax system for a club layout or a large home layout, but it is over kill for what I'm doing.
Didn't MR say that Zimo system was starting at $950 to $1300.(I know that's MSRP) but WOW!!!
They also quoted the PA at $330 (MSRP) I've seen it for $189. I also like 4 amps stock power and $18/each for basic decoders.
I can't wait to buy this for myself to see what the fuss is all about.

[electrolove]

BUMP!

Looking forward to the rest of this.

Joe, is it comming soon?

[Anonymous]

Joe,

After re-reading this post again, i noticed you try to translate the Zimo manual from German!?
There are English manuals available at the Zimo site thought,

http://w3.zimo.at/web2003/index2E.htm

Then click application and manuals, sorry a direct link to the particular page doesn’t work.

Hope this might help you.
Brgds
Cor

[CrazyDiamond]

KABUMP!!

Gee that musta been a pot hole! [:D]

[ericboone]

Has anyone used a DCC system with Loco CE from Kam Industries? Just curious about experiences.

[tstage]

Crandell,

I wouldn't think so. I just wanted to get it back up onto page 1...

Tom

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

bumpity bump...

I think Joe is busy doing a "move" of his own web forum to another page. He can't still be sick...?

[tstage]

bumpity bump...

[DALCruiser]

bump

[Anonymous]

bump

[Anonymous]

Hi All,

I like to follow this posting a lot, thanks Joe for putting so much time and effort in it.

I have been thinking of responding for several week now, still not sure wetter I should, but well here I go anyway.

quote]Originally posted by CrazyDiamond

Hi Joe!

Any Zimo reports coming soon? If you were to do another thread, perhaps a Zimo versus Digitrax report...that would be fine too.

[Anonymous]

I've been looking for the right DCC system for a medium size but compact layout for several weeks. I would like to run up to 4 throttles either by computer (JMRI probably) or manual control and do not need radio or IR initially (but may do with my next layout). The NCE cabs look functionally the best but I have 2 concerns about NCE.

Firstly, from user comments on this forum the equipment seems not to be reliable.

Secondly, can you advise on the most suitable system for computer control, primarily computer-driven throttle control (I intend to run the turnouts, signals, etc with a non-DCC system of some kind). LocoNet seems to be well-supported by both Digitrax and other manufacturers but the Digitrax throttles are not functionally very attractive... Can you provide information about the NCE equivalent to LocoNet in respect to its operation and flexibility of use by non-NCE devices.

Thank you for sponsoring this very useful forum.