FORUM CLINIC: Picking the best DCC system

[gregmc]

Hey tpatrick,
I feel your pain concerning your NCE radio experience. My club ones one and a local private operating layout I attend also uses the system, and between the two I have pretty much experienced every thing you have mention above. The lack of a back space key on the procab is really annoying. Combine that with the fact that one time you push a button and nothing happens and the next time you press it and you get three of that digit you are ready to pull you hair out. I have found that doing much more than running a train with the wireless throttle is a recipe for disaster. Now I don't know if the new radio repeaters will help this function or not. Seeing as how my club just purchased our radio system last month, you would think we have the new base unit, but at our train show 4 weeks ago we still had the same problems. I would be interested in seeing if the repeaters will improve the overall operation.

Greg McCartney

[gregmc]

Hey Up-James2,

I use the LH90 as my primary engineer cab and have pretty much studied all its ins and outs. As I said in my earlier post, it is not as complicated as it looks. I feel that most of the problem is the lack of labeling on the unit. I photoshoped a picture of my LH90 and relettered the buttons to reflect their functions. When you think about this throttle analytically, there are not that many possibilities as there simply aren't enough keys. Take a look at my revised throttle.



Here is the link for a larger picture.

http://webpages.charter.net/g_mccartney/lh90.jpg


Greg McCartney

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

QUOTE: Originally posted by JPM335

Now, this is just opinion of course (every review-oriented post is), but I happen to like the object-action operation of digitrax.

So, JPM, if you like object - action, what would you grade the Digitrax Zephyr?

I would give it a B-. My big gripe is the lack of an LCD screen. You have to be confident that you kind of know what to do since there is no friendly little screen to tell you you are OK[:D]. Im happy with my zephyr though. Hopefully a DT400 for Xmas.

[knewsom]

Sorry it took so long, but here is my ease of use assessment of the MRC Prodigy Advance.

REVIEW: MRC Prodigy Advance
The main reason that I decided to go with the MRC PA was the handheld. I found it very intuitive for running trains. Pictured below is an Prodigy Advance Handheld:



Setting up a consist
The PA allows both Advance Consisting and Universal (old-style consisting), but the default is Advanced Consisting. Both of them are set up similarly so I will put any differences for universal consisting after I detail how to set up an advanced consist.

Looking at the handheld there is a button for Consist. Press the consist button until the LCD displays "Cons SET", then hit the enter key. The LCD will display "Cons #", so enter the consist address ( Short address [1-127]) that you want to create and hit enter. The LCD will display "Add Loco". Enter the address of the loco that you want to add and if you want to have the loco run in reverse hit the direction key, then hit enter. The "Add Loco" message will appear in the LCD. Repeat the above steps for all of the locos that you want to add to the advanced consist. To stop adding locos to the consist, do not enter an address and just hit enter at the "Add Loco" prompt.
[Universal Consist]
Press the consist button until the LCD displays "Old SET", then hit the enter key. The LCD will display "LEAd Loc", so enter the address of the Lead loco that you want to create, press the direction key if you want to reverse it and hit enter. The LCD will display "Add Loco". Enter the address of the loco that you want to add and if you want to have the loco run in reverse hit the direction key, then hit enter. The "Add Loco" message will appear in the LCD. You can add up to 4 locos (or advanced consists) to a universal consist. To stop adding locos to the consist, do not enter an address and just hit enter at the "Add Loco" prompt.

Running a consist
To run an advanced consist, hit the loco key and make sure "Loco" appears in the LCD. Then enter the short address that you assigned to the advanced consist. Then turn the throttle to control the consist. Accessory functions are controlled by the consist # or by the individual addresses of the locomotives.
[Universal Consist]
Press the Consist button and then the Loco button. "Cons" will appear on the LCD display. Enter the address of the lead loco and hit enter. The throttle will control the speed and the accessories for each loco will be controlled by their individual addresses.

Clearing a consist
To clear an advanced consist, press the Consist key until the "Cons cLr" shows in the LCD then press enter. "Cons #" will appear in the LCD. Enter the short address of the advanced consist that you want to clear and hit enter. All locomotives will now respond to their individual addresses.
[Universal Consist]
Press the Consist button until "Cons oLd cLr" is in the LCD then hit enter. Each loco will now be controlled by their individual addresses.

Ease of use
MRC made it very easy to set up consists, by just following the prompts on the LCD. If you need help, all you have to do is flip the handheld over to see the instructions (the manual is not really necessary). One of the things that I do not like about it, is that you can not just remove one loco from an advanced consist. You have to clear the whole consist and then create the consist again. The PA also only allows one universal consist per command station (not per cab). That is limiting if there is more than one operator that wants to use a universal consist. It would also be nice if you could access a universal consist by any of the locos in it.

Overall rating for the MRC PA with respect to consisting: B+

[Anonymous]

Notice: I am not trying to start a flame war about prodigy, just giving my personal experience.

We have the PA hooked up to the modules. I will agree that it is easy to use... when it works correctly (which isnt very often). We have had lots of problems with the original one, and the replacement we got from MRC. But I will only list the difficulties we had while displaying in the bush library last month. First of all, no matter what locomotive or consist is running, the PA does some wierd stuff with lights. When the speed is on an even number speed step, headlight is on. Odd number speed step, headlight turns off. Hmmm. I have an amtrak engine with full prototypical lighting (ie: headlights, flashing ditch lights, backup light, red lights on nose while in reverse etc.) While running it, it would usually perform normally. Sometimes though, one ditch light would be on steady, the other off, and the red nose lights on while moving forward. Later we were running all sound equipped engines. We put a 6th engine up on the layout, and as soon as it started moving every engine on the layout started blasting the horn. We couldnt turn the horns off so we had to shut down the layout and restart. That had never happened before, it was like the PA got confused and gave up[xx(]. Also, the PA has trouble with TCS MC series decoders. Mine work fine at home on digitrax, but on PA they run all herky-jerky and sometimes just take off out of control. I thought it might be dirty track, so we cleaned the whole layout but the problem persisted. Also, we have to used decoder-based consists. Every time we try to run a command station consist, the consist runs fine, but nothing else will respond.

Now, before there is a big arguement Im not bashing anybody who has the PA. If you like it and it works well for you, thats great[:D]. These are just my experiences and something to consider if you are in the market for a DCC system.

[knewsom]

JPM335,

I have never had any of the problems that you have experienced with the PA in the 16 months that I have been running mine. Maybe the two that your club got were built on a Friday afternoon of a holiday weekend. [:)]

I also do not know which decoder was in the engine that had the issues with the lights on in an even speed step and off on an odd, but I have read in other forums that if the decoder is set to 14 speed steps and the command station is sending out 28 or 128 speed steps, that this problem can occur. Just something to look into to try and remedy the problem.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by knewsom

JPM335,
I also do not know which decoder was in the engine that had the issues with the lights on in an even speed step and off on an odd, but I have read in other forums that if the decoder is set to 14 speed steps and the command station is sending out 28 or 128 speed steps, that this problem can occur. Just something to look into to try and remedy the problem.

Thanks for the tip, Ill relay that to the club.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JPM335

QUOTE: Originally posted by knewsom

JPM335,
I also do not know which decoder was in the engine that had the issues with the lights on in an even speed step and off on an odd, but I have read in other forums that if the decoder is set to 14 speed steps and the command station is sending out 28 or 128 speed steps, that this problem can occur. Just something to look into to try and remedy the problem.

Thanks for the tip, Ill relay that to the club.

Exactly my thoughts too. The issues you describe sound exactly like what happens when the command station and decoder speed step settings are out of sync.

Decoders have a 14, 28 or 128 speed step setting. Whatever you set the decoder to, the command station must be set to be sending out the same 14, 28, or 128 speed steps for that loco address or you will get erratic function behavior (lights, horn, etc) and rough loco speed handling (sometimes perhaps just two speeds - too slow and too fast, with nothing in between).

So it's probably not your MRC system itself that's acting buggy ... most DCC systems will exhibit this kind of odd or erratic behavior if you don't have the speed steps in the decoder and the command station in set the same for your loco addresses.

Most decoders default to 14 steps, which works okay. Modern decoders almost all do 128 speed steps which gives your loco very smooth speed performance, assuming you also set the command station to 128 speed steps for that loco address!

[CrazyDiamond]

Hi Joe!

Any Zimo reports coming soon? If you were to do another thread, perhaps a Zimo versus Digitrax report...that would be fine too.

I personally am very interested in the strengths, & weaknesses of Digitrax and Zimo when it comes to ABS, and CTC, with and without the use of an external Windows OS computer.

[jfugate]

Been really laid out with a bad cold this week and spending a lot of time in bed. Maybe if I can get back on my feet by the weekend, I'll see if I can post a Zimo review.

[CrazyDiamond]

Frig......take your time....get your rest....heal first...your health comes first!! [:)]

[selector]

We'll wait, Joe. I hope you're better by the time you read this. I'll bet you're glad to get this one out of the way before the holidays!

-Crandell

[Anonymous]

I've been looking for the right DCC system for a medium size but compact layout for several weeks. I would like to run up to 4 throttles either by computer (JMRI probably) or manual control and do not need radio or IR initially (but may do with my next layout). The NCE cabs look functionally the best but I have 2 concerns about NCE.

Firstly, from user comments on this forum the equipment seems not to be reliable.

Secondly, can you advise on the most suitable system for computer control, primarily computer-driven throttle control (I intend to run the turnouts, signals, etc with a non-DCC system of some kind). LocoNet seems to be well-supported by both Digitrax and other manufacturers but the Digitrax throttles are not functionally very attractive... Can you provide information about the NCE equivalent to LocoNet in respect to its operation and flexibility of use by non-NCE devices.

Thank you for sponsoring this very useful forum.

[Anonymous]

Hi All,

I like to follow this posting a lot, thanks Joe for putting so much time and effort in it.

I have been thinking of responding for several week now, still not sure wetter I should, but well here I go anyway.

quote]Originally posted by CrazyDiamond

Hi Joe!

Any Zimo reports coming soon? If you were to do another thread, perhaps a Zimo versus Digitrax report...that would be fine too.

[Anonymous]

bump

[DALCruiser]

bump

[tstage]

bumpity bump...

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

bumpity bump...

I think Joe is busy doing a "move" of his own web forum to another page. He can't still be sick...?

[tstage]

Crandell,

I wouldn't think so. I just wanted to get it back up onto page 1...

Tom

[ericboone]

Has anyone used a DCC system with Loco CE from Kam Industries? Just curious about experiences.

[CrazyDiamond]

KABUMP!!

Gee that musta been a pot hole! [:D]

[Anonymous]

Joe,

After re-reading this post again, i noticed you try to translate the Zimo manual from German!?
There are English manuals available at the Zimo site thought,

http://w3.zimo.at/web2003/index2E.htm

Then click application and manuals, sorry a direct link to the particular page doesn’t work.

Hope this might help you.
Brgds
Cor

[electrolove]

BUMP!

Looking forward to the rest of this.

Joe, is it comming soon?

[loathar]

Thanks for that reveiw. Coming from a one man operation that can't set his own digital watch, I'm sold on the PA system.(simple is good). I've listened to Digitrax people and it kind of makes my head spin. I understand how folks need a Digitrax system for a club layout or a large home layout, but it is over kill for what I'm doing.
Didn't MR say that Zimo system was starting at $950 to $1300.(I know that's MSRP) but WOW!!!
They also quoted the PA at $330 (MSRP) I've seen it for $189. I also like 4 amps stock power and $18/each for basic decoders.
I can't wait to buy this for myself to see what the fuss is all about.

[ramoutandabout]

ok if i go with a MRC express what type of decorder do i want to use i asume they make ther own but what about broadway limitied thanks
i have really enjoyed this foroum but man im not sure what i want lol
i think the ease of the mrc out ways most things
its between the mrc and the digitrax zephyr

[Anonymous]

First off, you definently want to go with Digitrax over MRC. But any decoders work with any DCC system as long as the adressing is supported. 2 digit adress locos will work on any system. 4 digit adress locos will work on only systems that support 4 digit adressing. But this has nothing to do with the decoder. When you program the adress you decide if it is 2 or 4 digit. Also dont use MRC decoders, theyre junk.

[ramoutandabout]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JPM335

First off, you definently want to go with Digitrax over MRC. But any decoders work with any DCC system as long as the adressing is supported. 2 digit adress locos will work on any system. 4 digit adress locos will work on only systems that support 4 digit adressing. But this has nothing to do with the decoder. When you program the adress you decide if it is 2 or 4 digit. Also dont use MRC decoders, theyre junk.

ok joe why go digitrax over mrc

[jfugate]

I'm a different Joe, but I'll comment since I'm the one who started this topic way back when.

It all depends on what's most important to you. If cost counts the most and DCC features set is definitely secondary, the MRC's an okay system. However that's going to change very soon here once NCE gets their PowerCab product released. The PowerCab will be in the $140 range, which is only $20 more than an MRC Prodigy Express system. The Digitrax Zephyr starter system is about $160, and is available today, which is another option for $40 more than a Prodigy Express. The Zephyr is a whole lot more system and worth the extra $40, IMO.

MRC systems tend to be rather limited and somewhat of a dead-end if you expect to live with the system for a long time and expand it as your interests grow. MRC systems do not have a computer interface, which immediately rules out a whole crop of *free* software tools you might otherwise use to program decoders and other system setup aids.

If you don't plan to run more than two trains at a time, have no desire to ever move to wireless throttles, and expect your layout will always remain in the realm of a 4x8 in size and scope, then an MRC system might be an okay choice. Not a great choice if you care about feature set, but an OK one if *cheap* is at the top of your list.

[jnichols]

Joe,

You and I should get together and post a feature by feature comparison for people looking into the different DCC systems. While my experience is limited to Digitrax, Lenz and MRC, I'm sure there are others who could help fill in the blanks. I'll bet 10% or better of all the questions asked on this forum are about DCC, and I'd wager most of them are about what DCC system and componnents to buy.

Let me know if this is something you would be interested in. I realize you've already donated a ton of time explaining things in this post, but I've enjoyed reading the responses from you and others a great deal and think a good non biased comparison would really help people who were out shopping!

Jeff

[jfugate]

Jeff:

I'm game.

What features would you list?