jfugate wrote:...COMPARISON OF STARTER SYSTEM EXTRA CAB EXPANSION OPTIONS The Zephyr has the advantage with regard to cabs ... it will take two additional cabs out of the box, and you can also connect two additional high quality DC power packs as throttles. You could run up to 5 separate trains with a fully loaded Zephyr. Not bad!Either system can get more sockets for additional cabs with the purchase of additional UTP panels (universal throttle plug panels) for $15 each. Of course, then you have to foot the cost of the additional cabs.NCE basic engineer cabs (Cab04p) costs about $70 street price ... while the Digitrax basic engineer cab (UT4) costs about $65 street price.The NCE full-featured throttle (ProCab) costs about $125 street price, and the Digitrax full featured cab (DT400) costs about $140 street price.So the Zephyr out-of-the-box has a one-DCC-throttle socket advantage over the PowerCab -- the Zephyr's DC powerpack option is nice, but I view it as transitory and don't recommend it as your long-term DCC throttle solution. As to individual add-on throttle prices, the two systems are basically a wash. P.S. It's interesting how all these trade-offs can work -- to me a lot of this is basically a wash, and you should just go with the system vendor you prefer. No matter what system you chose (Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, or EasyDCC), you should be pleased with the performance. They're all good systems.But the throttle slot issue is a case in point. Sure, the NCE PowerCab has one less DCC throttle socket out of the box than the Zephyr. But the NCE PowerCab typically sells at a street price of $140, while the Zephyr's street price is around $160. For $15 you can get a UTP panel to go with your PowerCab, and now it has three throttle slots to the Zephyr's two -- and you've still saved yourself $5 on the Zephyr's $160 street price.So it's largely a pitched battle, where things like user interface or amount of local support you can get will be the deciding factor. That's why I harp so much on these less obvious issues, because as far all the other more obvious considerations (price, capacity, etc), they're all so close it makes very little practical difference.
jfugate wrote: But the throttle slot issue is a case in point. Sure, the NCE PowerCab has one less DCC throttle socket out of the box than the Zephyr. But the NCE PowerCab typically sells at a street price of $140, while the Zephyr's street price is around $160. For $15 you can get a UTP panel to go with your PowerCab, and now it has three throttle slots to the Zephyr's two -- and you've still saved yourself $5 on the Zephyr's $160 street price.
But the throttle slot issue is a case in point. Sure, the NCE PowerCab has one less DCC throttle socket out of the box than the Zephyr. But the NCE PowerCab typically sells at a street price of $140, while the Zephyr's street price is around $160. For $15 you can get a UTP panel to go with your PowerCab, and now it has three throttle slots to the Zephyr's two -- and you've still saved yourself $5 on the Zephyr's $160 street price.
Tony list the Zephyr at $160.00 and the Power Cab at $150.00. If you add the cost of a UTP panel to the Power Cab you end up with a street price of $165 for the Power Cab and I am sure someone else will come up with different quotations.
What puzzle me is the third slot added to the Power Cab, with an UTP panel does it means you can have three throttles plugged to the Power Cab at once? I do own a Power Cab and I am sure two throttles are the maximum available.
Jack W.
Stevert wrote:Joe, I have to ask - Can you really plug 7 cabs into a PowerCab system to run those 7 locos at the same time?Steve
Joe,
I have to ask - Can you really plug 7 cabs into a PowerCab system to run those 7 locos at the same time?
Steve
Nope, only the PowerCab plus one extra cab in the basic PowerCab -- so two trains at once max with the out-of-the-box PowerCab.
You can, however, run multiunit diesel consists (not uncommon on a diesel era layout), and get up to 7 locos running at the same time spread across two trains. For instance, on my Siskiyou Line, I typically have 3 units on the point and a 2-unit mid-train helper -- and with two trains, that's 10 locos right there.
COMPARISON OF STARTER SYSTEM EXTRA CAB EXPANSION OPTIONS
The Zephyr has the advantage with regard to cabs ... it will take two additional cabs out of the box, and you can also connect two additional high quality DC power packs as throttles. You could run up to 5 separate trains with a fully loaded Zephyr. Not bad!
Either system can get more sockets for additional cabs with the purchase of additional UTP panels (universal throttle plug panels) for $15 each. Of course, then you have to foot the cost of the additional cabs.
NCE basic engineer cabs (Cab04p) costs about $70 street price ... while the Digitrax basic engineer cab (UT4) costs about $65 street price.
The NCE full-featured throttle (ProCab) costs about $125 street price, and the Digitrax full featured cab (DT400) costs about $140 street price.
So the Zephyr out-of-the-box has a one-DCC-throttle socket advantage over the PowerCab -- the Zephyr's DC powerpack option is nice, but I view it as transitory and don't recommend it as your long-term DCC throttle solution.
As to individual add-on throttle prices, the two systems are basically a wash.
P.S. It's interesting how all these trade-offs can work -- to me a lot of this is basically a wash, and you should just go with the system vendor you prefer. No matter what system you chose (Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, or EasyDCC), you should be pleased with the performance. They're all good systems.
So it's largely a pitched battle, where things like user interface or amount of local support you can get will be the deciding factor. That's why I harp so much on these less obvious issues, because as far all the other more obvious considerations (price, capacity, etc), they're all so close it makes very little practical difference.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
I think the difference is even less substantial from a "does it matter" point of view in n-scale where loco will draw .2-.3 amps at most and likely won't have sound. You are talking, conservatively, around 5 locos for Powercab concurrently which seems plenty for a starter system. I think that if the current rating for either of these is an issue then maybe you should be looking at a more powerful system.
Still, I was surprised that both units had less then 5 amps which I had mistakenly thought something of a standard for HO/N boosters.. and I suspect the difference is less one of cost and more one of creating a gap between "entry-level" and "full" products. On the bright side, less chance of a short melting something. Indeed, I would like to find a way to turn my 5 amp booster down to 2 amps on my current (no pun intended) layout which will never have more then 2-3 locos.
I think the two biggest issues a user needs to decide in choosing these is ergonomics, do you prefer hand-held or the "power pack" format, and how the software/documentation comes off to you. Both require some time actually using the unit which, while not easy in this age of scarce under-supplied hobby shops, would be the best way to buy.
On a personal note, I had not realized Powercab didnt support DC. I have several locos I don't have decoders in that I like to run for friends. I don't like the buzzing noise and it can't be good for the motor, but for the occasional gee-whiz (which is all it is for my non MRR friends) its a handy feature.
Chris
jfugate wrote:Paul:Thanks for the clarifications.I feel system amp capacity is less of an issue than people make it out to be. Amp capacity, put simply, limits the total number of locomotives that you can have running on your layout at the same time.The 1.7 amp capacity of the PowerCab allows up to 7 non-sound locos to be run at once -- while the Zephyr will allow up to 10 non-sound locos. If all locos on your layout have sound, then it's 4 sound locos (just barely) simultaneously with the PowerCab, or 5 sound locos simultaneously with the Zephyr.Most people who go with a starter DCC system will have a small layout and most of the time will be running 1 or 2 trains at a time -- hardly the 7 locos at once that the PowerCab allows.So I consider the amps limit in practical terms to be "slightly more" on the Zephyr. If that extra 1-3 locos makes a big difference to you between the PowerCab and the Zephyr, then you need to move beyond a starter system.
Paul:
Thanks for the clarifications.
I feel system amp capacity is less of an issue than people make it out to be. Amp capacity, put simply, limits the total number of locomotives that you can have running on your layout at the same time.
The 1.7 amp capacity of the PowerCab allows up to 7 non-sound locos to be run at once -- while the Zephyr will allow up to 10 non-sound locos. If all locos on your layout have sound, then it's 4 sound locos (just barely) simultaneously with the PowerCab, or 5 sound locos simultaneously with the Zephyr.
Most people who go with a starter DCC system will have a small layout and most of the time will be running 1 or 2 trains at a time -- hardly the 7 locos at once that the PowerCab allows.
So I consider the amps limit in practical terms to be "slightly more" on the Zephyr. If that extra 1-3 locos makes a big difference to you between the PowerCab and the Zephyr, then you need to move beyond a starter system.
You're forgetting our N-Scale friends. Those differences can become quite substantial to them. And what about the guy (I forget his name) who drops in on the Digitrax list from time to time and runs his entire basement-sized layout with a single Zephyr and no boosters?
And I have to ask - Can you really plug 7 cabs into a PowerCab system to run those 7 locos at the same time?
jfugate,A slight correction: the Zephyr can handle two "jump" DC throttlepacks, not just one. Also, the 2.5 amp vs. 1.7 amp capacity difference is more than "slightly". The PowerCab has 2/3rds the power of the Z. I would agree that it doesn't matter for most home layouts, but when you're talking about a 33% difference, that's more than "slightly" (IMHO).
As for pros/cons additions, apparently the Z can handle more DCC throttles than the PC.
I would also say that the Digitrax radio, while simplex, has a greater range (no need for repeaters). The NCE radio, while duplex, has a shorter range and can require the use of expensive repeaters. I have also heard (from an NCE owner at my club) that the Digitrax 9v batteries will last a lot longer in use than the NCE AAA's.
Also, I would mention that the PC's multi-line display is far superior to the Z's 4-digit LED's.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
For starter DCC systems that have good growth potential, a couple of the two best choices are the Digitrax Zephyr and the NCE PowerCab.
To help you decide, here's some pros and cons for each.
Digitrax Zephyr
Pros -
Cons -
For modelers who need to move from DC to DCC slowly, the DC features of the Zephyr are handy. The fact going into programming mode doesn't shut down the layout on the Zephyr is a nice plus. Since Digitrax has done such a good job marketing their systems, it's very likely you will have someone nearby who can help you out if you get stuck.
My personal preference is for the NCE PowerCab. I find Digitrax products are more for those who don't mind reading manuals more frequently and have a bit more of a techy leaning. NCE's very friendly plain english button labels and their easy to follow prompts makes the learning curve for using the system quite quick -- you will have to study the manual a bit more with Digitrax, and keep it handy for things you don't do as often. Once you learn the PowerCab, you have also learned the ProCab, since 98% of the commands are the same.
I also personally find the "smart consisting" that NCE uses to be a dream come true if you model modern diesel lashups with locos that have full sound and lights installed.
However, in the final analysis, both systems will give you excellent service and it's hard to go wrong picking either one of them.
medic_149 wrote: I want a hand held throtle. and dont have the funds to go with the digitrax supercheif.
I want a hand held throtle. and dont have the funds to go with the digitrax supercheif.
My 2 cents.. even with my small 3x5 layout I -love- having a walk around throttle. I would make that a top priority. If you go with the Zephyr, price how much it would be to buy a small handheld throttle to go with it. More so since my small layout is divided into two scenes with a scenic divider.. but even without the divider its really nice being able to stand eye to eye with my locomotive as I operate it.
I have the Empire Builder for reasons which were compelling six years ago, primarily the cost and availability of a computer interface, a non issue now. I also mistakenly thought the computer interface would get around the lack of read back of CVs (not an issue with zephyr or chief) which was only partially true. If I was buying today I would probably have gotten the power cab. In fact, I am still considering the switch at some point when I can afford it, pending a test drive of the power cab, especially if I decide to go to radio control.
joe, still got some questions on dcc systems. I appreciate everything you have doen so far. I am leaning between 2 different systems and have a question. How easy is it to program cvs. I have never used dcc before. I purchased bachmans dcc first .now I am installing decoders and the soundbug decoders I have require you to program cvs so bachmans out. I guess my question spans several systems. How easy is it to program and understand cvs.
edit---the 2 systems I have narrowed down to are digitrax zypher and nce powercab. leaning more towards nce right now mostly because I want a hand held throtle. and dont have the funds to go with the digitrax supercheif.
MRC Wireless:
I have previously made very positive comments regarding the MRC Wireless system so it's only fair that I keep you posted regarding any negative experiences. Yesterday my LCD screen went completely blank and wouldn't come back on.So, today it's on its way back to MRC for repair. At the same time I'm asking for their free upgrade that will solve the 4-digit addressing problem that they have a fix for as I do want to start using 4-digit addresses. I've had the unit about 3 months.I still like how this system works for my operations but hope that this isn't a sign of on-going problems.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
Joe - maybe I will have the privilege to be the last contributor to this discussion. I am away from my home and reading this via WiFi. I wish to thank you so much for continuing this string so far.
I started 2 years ago in modeling and decided on a Zephyr which I am learning and hope to improve. Your forums sure add to that.
Look forward to seeing you in A\naheim if I can get back from Panama by then. I am missing my trains!
Cheers, Jake
I think the Digitrax Zephyr is the only entry level system that will allow you to run one DC loco at the same time with DCC locos. This would be a good way for you to keep running those old locos.
Also, your old DC power pack can be used as an extra throttle with the Zephyr. It would be limited to speed and direction controls only but could come in handy when running more than one train or with more than one operator.
Lenz also allows one DC loco but it would cost more than the Zephyr. Not sure about EasyDCC systems.
When I convert to DCC, budgetary constraints will probably force me to get an intro level DCC system and a couple of decoders. I currently have 4 "DCC-ready" locos, 2 fairly new DC locos, and 8 older (as in-1980 or earlier) pure DC models. Naturally, most of these older locos have sentimental value, and I wouldn't really want to quit running them completely. I know I can install decoders in the DCC ready ones, and can probably get the 2 newer DC ones up and running. However, I'm not convinced that I will ever be able to convert the old dinosaurs.
Ideally, I would like to run the old locos simultaneously with DCC locos, but I recognize that this may not be possible. Alternatively, I would like to be able to run the old DC locos at different times, without a lot of complicated block or A-B switch wiring.
So my question is, which is the most DC-friendly of the intro systems? Is there one that can run one DC loco along with one or two DCC locos simultaneously? Or am I stuck with, at a mininum, an A-B switch and keeping the old DC power pack.
Any insights would be appreciated.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Gav .... Which system have you decided on?
Kent
Mr Fugate
I would like to thankyou for starting this thred as it has helped me decide what system to go for.I'm not that sharp with computers or dcc but am going to take the plunge
thanks again
Gav.
Simon, Joe ....
Thank you both for your comments. As always they are appreciated.
As far as the number of trains (locos) I would have running; Ultimately, I would say 3 trains ... containing 5 locos. 3 with dcc & sound, 2 with dcc only. ( 1 steam & 2 sets of A/B desiels). Planned layout size is 4x16. It would be nice if the zepher or the powercab could handle all of it without needing additional boosters for having to get a larger system.
I would NOT be apposed to getting a Digitrax Super Chief or ProCab if I found a decent used one on e-bay at a reduced price ....... but Im not going to hold my breath on finding it! lol
Thanks again gentlemen....
I have owned and operated my Digitrax Super Chief system for about ten years. I started with radio and got one DT100R throttle with my set (still have it in operation). When I wanted to expand my layout and needed another booster, I purchased an Empire Builder set because I got a DB150 and another DT100. I sent the DT100 to Digitrax to be upgraded to radio. I have had only a few OPS sessions but several open houses where I permitted visitors to run trains with the DT100. I dialed up the loco and the visitors had no problems operating the controls with simple instructions.
For operating I also purchased two UT-1 throttles. These were very easy to use and my visitors liked them. They were limited to two digit addressing. I sold them because thy could not be upgraded to radio.
I have since purchased two DT300R throttles and find them as easy to uses as the DT100. Most visitors and/or operators do not program during an operating session so the throttle is used to stop and go, and most visitors can use them with a few simple instructions.
I purchased a DT400R throttle as I was advised it would be great for programing. I never learned to use it for programing as I migrated to Decoder Pro. I do keep it for an extra operating throttle.
All of my future digitrax throttle purchases will be DT4. They are easy to use. The entire DT4 throttle manual is only four pages long and can be downloaded for the Digitrax web site. I also have simple one page "cheat sheets" regarding the operation of the DT100, DT300 and DT400 throttles...hey sometimes I forget!
I do not believe the mix of throttles will be a problem. I have asked this question of other Digitrax owners with few complaints.
I have an off layout programing track with a computer interface. If a locomotive nends programing, I opt to remove it from the layout for the programing. My programing track is also a 6ft test track so work can be done on a locomotive without disrupting layout operations.
Is Digitrax beter than NEC? I don't know, but my Digitrax system continues to serve me well....10 years and counting.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
jfugate wrote:First, we need to throw out your mention of the UT2 and DT300. Those are not produced any more, haven't been for years, so anyone buying one would presumably know what they're getting into. In other words, not the target audience for this thread. You even mention they're discontinued, so why even bother to list them other than to cloud the issue?SteveYet, I don't feel it's fair to just sweep it all under the rug either.
First, we need to throw out your mention of the UT2 and DT300. Those are not produced any more, haven't been for years, so anyone buying one would presumably know what they're getting into. In other words, not the target audience for this thread. You even mention they're discontinued, so why even bother to list them other than to cloud the issue?Steve
First, we need to throw out your mention of the UT2 and DT300. Those are not produced any more, haven't been for years, so anyone buying one would presumably know what they're getting into. In other words, not the target audience for this thread. You even mention they're discontinued, so why even bother to list them other than to cloud the issue?
Yet, I don't feel it's fair to just sweep it all under the rug either.
Nor is it fair to imply that folks will somehow be forced to use, or deal with the differences of, out-of-production throttles.
jfugate wrote: Even though the older Digitrax throttles are no longer produced, people should also be aware they may encounter them on Digitrax layouts.
Even though the older Digitrax throttles are no longer produced, people should also be aware they may encounter them on Digitrax layouts.
That's a personal choice of the layout owner, not any kind of Digitrax requirement.
Besides, didn't CVP make radio throttles for NCE at one time? I suppose you could still encounter those, too. But you'd be all over me if I said that's a good reason to avoid NCE.
jfugate wrote: For example, when I go run trains on my friend Charlie Comstock's layout, he uses Digitrax. While I know how to read a Digitrax manual and understand how to use the system, I don't have the system so I don't commit the manuals to memory.So I pick up a UT2 throttle and start looking for a select or loco button, but no dice. "Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?" is my cry. "Dial up the number and press ACQ" is the reply that comes back. Okay, after a couple tries I get it to work, then I'm off.Next train I get a UT4 throttle. Hey, no ACQ button. Again the cry goes out, "Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?" The answer comes back, "Dail up the loco number and press the SEL key". Oh, okay, got it. Doesn't seem like this should be so hard, but oh well.Next train, someone brought their DT400, so they hand it to me to use. Hmm ... no ACQ, no SEL ... and again I ask, "Hey, how to you assign this thing to a loco?" ...I have a lot of guest operators on my HO Siskiyou Line, where we now use NCE. I tell everyone at the beginning of the session, "No matter what throttle you are using, press Select Loco, type in the number, and press enter". End of training and I get no questions during the op session asking, "hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?"That's a real life (admitedly just a luck-of-the-draw worst case) personal example illustrating how this issue can play out in real life for a guest operator using Digitrax.
For example, when I go run trains on my friend Charlie Comstock's layout, he uses Digitrax. While I know how to read a Digitrax manual and understand how to use the system, I don't have the system so I don't commit the manuals to memory.
So I pick up a UT2 throttle and start looking for a select or loco button, but no dice. "Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?" is my cry. "Dial up the number and press ACQ" is the reply that comes back. Okay, after a couple tries I get it to work, then I'm off.
Next train I get a UT4 throttle. Hey, no ACQ button. Again the cry goes out, "Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?" The answer comes back, "Dail up the loco number and press the SEL key". Oh, okay, got it. Doesn't seem like this should be so hard, but oh well.
Next train, someone brought their DT400, so they hand it to me to use. Hmm ... no ACQ, no SEL ... and again I ask, "Hey, how to you assign this thing to a loco?" ...
I have a lot of guest operators on my HO Siskiyou Line, where we now use NCE. I tell everyone at the beginning of the session, "No matter what throttle you are using, press Select Loco, type in the number, and press enter". End of training and I get no questions during the op session asking, "hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?"
That's a real life (admitedly just a luck-of-the-draw worst case) personal example illustrating how this issue can play out in real life for a guest operator using Digitrax.
Again, that's a personal choice made by the layout owner, not a Digitrax requirement or limitation. It's not the way most layout owners (that I've met, anyway) operate. (And wasn't Charlie the guy who hated Digitrax, but installed it on his layout anyway? Somehow it doesn't surprise me that he's the one who put himself in this worse-case situation.)
Most layout owners settle on a single cab style for operations, or possibly two. And even those two are often variations of the same cab (eg, radio for mainline and tethered for yard).
It's simply not the norm for a layout owner (even Digitrax layout owners, Charlie notwithstanding), to search out one or two examples of every cab they can find just to confuse guests. And it's certainly not a Digitrax requirement that they do so.
kent s wrote: Simon ... since you are experienced with a Zepher, do you find the 2.5 amps enough power to handle your needs? How many locos can it handle at one time.
Kent, I have added a 5 amp DB150 booster to my layout. The booster handles all the main lines and the Zephyr booster handles the yard area. I never hit the limits of the Zephyr and probably did not need a booster. I wanted to get a DT400 throttle and got one in a low cost Empire Builder set that I purchased off e-Bay. I basically got the booster for $20 more than it would have cost me to get the DT400 from a web dealer. As to how many locos I can run in the Zephyr power district, I don't actually know for sure. I might try an experiment to see how many it will handle.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
kent s wrote:Thanks Jack, I did notice that before. In the advertisement brochure it says 2 amps, but in the technical info it does say 1.7. That is one of the reasons I'm leaning towards the Zepher with its 2.5 capability. Thanks,Kent
Thanks Jack, I did notice that before. In the advertisement brochure it says 2 amps, but in the technical info it does say 1.7. That is one of the reasons I'm leaning towards the Zepher with its 2.5 capability.
Thanks,
Kent:
I think the whole question of amp capacity is over blown on small layouts where 1-2 trains at a time is the norm.
That extra 0.8 amps on the Zephyr is only valuable if you plan to be running more locos at the same time. The PowerCab will let you run up to 6 non-sound locos at once, while the Zephyr will let you run up to 9 non-sound locos at once. Do you really plan to run 9 locos at the same time?
There may be many good reasons to go with the Zephyr on a small layout, but the amp capacity differerence between the PowerCab and the Zephyr should not be the one deciding factor unless you plan to run more than 2 trains at a time with sound.
kent s wrote: I've been off line for a couple of days ... come back and find lots of comments and great information. I do want to take the time to thank everyone for their input. Especially to Joe for the excellent responses to my questions.... they were very helpful. By giving me the amps used by the locos, I can now calculate the max number of locos each system can handle.I read a review about the PowerCab on another site (maybe tonys trains) and the author said when he added the 4th loco it would trip the breaker on the PowerCab. He didn't say if they had sound decoders or not ..... or if they were in consist or 4 singles. Kent
I've been off line for a couple of days ... come back and find lots of comments and great information. I do want to take the time to thank everyone for their input. Especially to Joe for the excellent responses to my questions.... they were very helpful. By giving me the amps used by the locos, I can now calculate the max number of locos each system can handle.
I read a review about the PowerCab on another site (maybe tonys trains) and the author said when he added the 4th loco it would trip the breaker on the PowerCab. He didn't say if they had sound decoders or not ..... or if they were in consist or 4 singles.
Kent when doing your maths with the Power Cab make sure you use 1.7 amp not 2 as it is listed on NCE web site. My own Power Cab is a 1.7 amps system.
Personally, for me ... Operating 5 locos (3 trains at once) would be an extreme. The track plan is for only 4x16 with 2 lines. More than a basic loop .... but nothing extravagant.
The more recent conversations about upgrading (adding power boosters or complete systems) has also been a learning experience for me.
Simon ... since you are experienced with a Zepher, do you find the 2.5 amps enough power to handle your needs? How many locos can it handle at one time.
I think the PowerCab control is great! But with some of the other features offered by the Zepher ..... I am leaning towards the Zepher and adding a ut4 for some walk around flexiblity. Who knows, next week I might change my mind! (I feel like a kid in a candy store, and I'm 58 year old!)
Thanks to all for the great forum and the comments. It is apprecated.
Jeff:
Absolutely ease-of-use is only one of the many criteria you should be using to decide on the system that's best for you. Ease and cost of expansion is another. What everyone around you is using is another (ease of getting support/able to buy fewer throttles because people can bring theirs).
And the list goes on ...
As has been said before, there is no "best" system, only the best system for YOU.
I looked and looked. I read a few manuals. I played with a few at train shows. Then I chose the Digitrax Chief. Not the radio version. Well, not yet. It's an easy enough upgrade.
I always think about the future, so I chose the one that could be expanded the most and the easiest.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I notice that all of the comparisons of minor differences in how locomotives are selected between different throttles and different manufacturers don't include the ability to recall previously selected locomotives. If someone has say 8 DCC locomotives and their throttle can remember more than 8 then they may choose to simply recall a previosuly selected locomotive and not reacquire one by punching or dialing in its address. Another thought which comes to mind about how much weight someone will place on this function vs. other things like overall features, expandability and such. I know when I chose my system I saw all of the less filling/tastes great debates over how user friendly one system is vs another. I took that into consideration but it was a minor consideration for me and I weighed it against all of the other evaluation criteria. Lastly, I often see discussions where folks will waffle over one system vs another, especially when looking at the higher end systems and will chose the lower end system to save $100-150. When I think of this over the life of the system, this becomes the cost of one DCC equipped sound locomitve. If I were making that decision I'd opt to put off the purchase of one locomotive, especially if I thought I might upgrade in the future anyway.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Steve, your point is quite valid that for people looking at getting into DCC, Digitrax has mended a lot of their older ways. The newer stuff is much better all the way around -- better manuals, more consistant user interface, and so on.
Yet, I don't feel it's fair to just sweep it all under the rug either. There are still differences between the command sequences to do the same thing with the Zephyr and a DT400 in other common functions like consisting. More differences than with NCE's starter system and their top of the line system.
Digitrax is better than they used to be, to be sure. But NCE's system will need less handholding of guest operators than Digitrax ... although Digitrax is gaining on NCE. However, Digitrax is not neck-in-neck with NCE in ease of use -- yet.
Joe, I also take slight issue with the statement that the PowerCab has the best upgrade path. You have even mentioned yourself that if you take the logical upgrade path of PowerCab-PowerCab + Smartbooster then to Powerhouse Pro that you end up with a boat anchor for a Smartbooster. In addition you end up with useless ancillary parts, and for that matter the 1.7amp booster circuit that came with the PowerCab in the first place. I know that you were driving at the point about duplex v simplex radio, but I don't think it is a fair sweeping statement to cover all aspects of the upgrade path.Simon
Joe, I also take slight issue with the statement that the PowerCab has the best upgrade path. You have even mentioned yourself that if you take the logical upgrade path of PowerCab-PowerCab + Smartbooster then to Powerhouse Pro that you end up with a boat anchor for a Smartbooster. In addition you end up with useless ancillary parts, and for that matter the 1.7amp booster circuit that came with the PowerCab in the first place. I know that you were driving at the point about duplex v simplex radio, but I don't think it is a fair sweeping statement to cover all aspects of the upgrade path.
Simon
Simon:
I agree with you, so if I said different somewhere, then I was mistaken or I mistyped something.
The PowerCab upgrade path to a ProCab is not very good, because you end up with extra parts. Now having said that, the other truth with NCE systems is they do not keep the main track powered when you go into programming mode, while the Digitrax systems DO keep the main track powered. If you start with a PowerCab, I recommend the next step be that you just go for the ProCab and don't go to the SB3.
What you end up with if you take this approach with NCE is you get a system for running a programming track (the PowerCab) and a system for running your layout too. You can wire a toggle switch to the programming track so you can connect it to the layout, run the loco you want to program on to the programming track, then throw the toggle to program and connect to the PowerCab. Meanwhile, your main track stays powered by the ProCab, so the layout stays up.
And when you're not using the programming track, the PowerCab dogbone throttle is a regular ProCab full-function dogbone throttle.
This way nothing is lost in the upgrade path and you get an NCE system with a separate programming track that's useable during an op session just like Digitrax does. However, it's also true that DCC has progressed to the point that Programming on the Main (POM) can be used for 99% of your programming needs and a programming track can be reserved for just the "tough debugging cases" when programming decoders. In this case, bringing down the layout while using the programming track is not as big a deal because you probably won't be debugging a loco decoder issue right in the middle of an op session anyway.
But I absolutely concede the initial point that the NCE upgrade path is not all that great, and Digitrax's upgrade path is better. If you go with an SB3 as part of your NCE upgrade path, you end up with having spent money for parts you can't use if you then move to a full ProCab system.