FORUM CLINIC: Picking the best DCC system

[pcarrell]

I'm all ears.

As many of you know, I'm moving very soon. I will be wanting to upgrade as I rebuild.

I've been out of the "whats new in DCC" loop just long enough to really screw up, so this is perfect.

You ALL have my undivided attention.

[bikerraypa]

Thanks, Mr. Fugate. This is exactly the kind of thread I've been looking for. Beyond basic information (type of throttle, ability to utilize sound, etc.), a lot of questions come to mind that I can't really find the answers for by reading manufacturer's websites. Things like, how much space will it take, how hot does it get, how many "accessories" do I have to shell out for to take advantage of the features, etc.

Again, thanks. I'm really looking forward to this thread!

Ray

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: How do you define "BEST" ?

When people post the question, "What the best DCC system to get?" what are they really asking?

If it was just a matter of best being what's cheapest, then that's simple math, so that's probably not the question.

If I could restate the question simply, I would say it would be more like this:

What DCC system has the most functionality for the least cost?

In other words, it can cost more if I get more.

Also, the question might be restated as:

"Which DCC features must I insist on regardless of cost, and which DCC features can I do without and thus save some money?"

In other words, can someone rank the DCC features for me, and tell me what systems have the important ones?

The problem, of course, is DCC feature ranking is highly subjective. And some important considerations may not even be features at all.

So let's attack the question of "best" by sticking to considerations and features without regard to specific systems at first. Then we'll embark on comparing various systems to our ranked list of features and considerations.

TOPIC NEXT POST: Important DCC considerations that are not system features

[Anonymous]

Just pick out which Digitrax unit you want and the search is over. NEXT

[fwright]

Thanks Joe

This is exactly what I wanted the Buyer's Guide to be - what is the best DCC system to buy given one's personal circumstances. Some of the criteria has already been mentioned by others. I especially liked kchronister's criteria - except that I'm not sure what a CTC capability is. Other criteria I might add:

total cost for a realistic configuration - or at least include the costs for each of the components to get to a wireless or tethered plus costs for each additional operator/locomotive.

scalability - not important for me as a lone wolf, but certainly for most others. The Buyer's Guide covered this somewhat - # of throttles, decoders, power before you have to upgrade components or expand. There may be more to this I don't know.

I respectfully disagree with Randy, I do need specifics about each system. Otherwise, I'm back to the inadequate comparison chart. The problem, as you pointed out Joe, is that most folks have only experience with one particular system, and most of the rest is "I heard" type of thing about other systems. I hope very much that posters will keep their comments specific and based on facts or first-hand experience; that by doing this we can avoid the flame wars Randy fears.

yours in learning about DCC
Fred Wright

[Anonymous]

Joe,

Boy, you really are brave aren't you? It will be interesting to see if this can not turn into a flame fest as Randy suggests.....

I think best is a subjective decision. I am curious what sort of consensus we can come to on the point.

My best would be:

1. Wireless
2. Easy to use
3. Reliable

I'm not sure how one can discuss no.3 without flames flying.......So perhaps we should presume they all work well and amend my list to two.

Joe, its your move........This should be fun

[selector]

As an IO Psych type, my interest would be in simple ergonomics. The human-machine interface must be intuitive and ergonomically sound. I think we would all agree that the range in these two dimensions is rather broad across the spectrum.

The aircraft industry went through this very early when they found that their cockpit feedback mechanisms were not serving the pilots well. Once they got their minds to the right way of designing the cockpit for the human, fewer pilots made fewer mistakes.

Personally, the tiny knobs on the DT400 work for me...I have small hands, but I know that others prefer larger ones. Maybe the manufacturers should offer a range of paddle types and sizes. Certainly the display on the DT400 leaves much to be desired. Sure, I know it now, but the learning curve is a real bi**h with Digitrax's ergonomics.

That is my [2c].

Thank-you to both you gentlemen for initiating this discussion. My compliments.

[rrinker]

Perhaps if we keep it at "how do you define" and leave out discussions of specific systems, this can succeed. Armed with a full discussion of what are "must haves" "like to haves" and "don't cares", one can look at a chart such at the MR buyer's guide and make a decision.
Because quite frankly, even with the best of intentions, if we start talking about which specific system is 'best', this will quickly turn into a flame war.

I'll add a few other items for consideration:

1. Local usage - unless you are a true "lone wolf" modeler and don't interact with other locals and clubs, it can be very helpful to use the same system as the majority of those around you - if not for operating session items like using your throttle on their layout, then for having good local support and help while you get your system going.

2. Third party support - I mean elements specific to a system, since any compliant system SHOULD be able to access any compliant accessory decoder. I'm talking add-ons compatible with specific systems at points where there is no NMRA standard, such as at the throttle bus and command bus levels. Can you do ie signalling without being tied to one vendor?

3. Local availability - sort of goes with #1, if your LHS has a knowledgeable DCC department, and they sell and support primarily Brand A, shoudl you really buy Brand B or C for yourself?

--Randy

[Stevert]

kchronister, that's a great list to start things off. I'd like to add one more item:

6) Expandability: If your DCC needs grow, or if you want to add additional features, can you expand your current DCC system without having to replace any of the equipment (command stations, etc) that you already have?

[IRONROOSTER]

Good topic and timely for me as I plan to get into DCC early next year.
My top 5 areas are:
1. Ease of use - I program computers all day at work, I don't want to come home and program the DCC system all night. Ideally I plug the wires into the system and the track, pick up the wireless throttle and start running trains. I understand that it's not going to be quite that simple, but how close to that is the system?
2. Technical support - when I call for help how good is it?
3. Expandability - can I start small and grow without having to dump parts that I started with?
4. Reliability - How well does the system work, especially the wireless?
5. How touchy is the system, that is can I install it myself and have it work even though some of my wiring connections may be less than perfect?

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Well, as chief instigator of a related thread, I'll throw down my 2cents. Here are the critical elements for me when considering DCC. In other words, my "best" system would be the one that has the most advantageous offering in these areas (several of which, especially "throttle" are highly subjective!)

1) Throttles. This is critical to me - it's the interface I use and whether I like it or not will determined a large chunk of how happy I am. Issues I'd want to know: Knobs, dials or buttons for primary speed control. Availability of simpler "engineer" throttles versus "dispatcher" throttles. Programmable buttons available, one-push function buttons, complexity of keying sequence to accomplish functions.

2) Wireless. Yes, a subset of Throttles, really, but critical. What wireless options does the system support. How well do they work? What are the limitations (i.e. changing locos without plugging in?) Are there technical issues reports (e.g. time lag). While it might not be a prerequisite today, I see this being like cordless phones. When they first came out, they were a gimmick, a luxury, a gadget. Now they're dominant. I'd guess that 10 years from now it will be unusual to run around a layout plugging and unplugging a tether. I know personally I won't go into a system that doesn't offer a wireless option.

3) Stationary decoders/non-train function control. I realize part of this answer is "that's about the decoder, not the system, and any system SHOULD in theory run any decoder." I'd suggest that A) that isn't true (not all systems will run all decoders) and B) the system itself does impact this issue: e.g. How does the system interface with other-than-loco controls. How complex is it to control signaling, switches/turnouts, accessories, etc. How does it interact with block detection. Does it support two-way decoders and if so, how. Etc.

4) Updateability. Can the system software be updated as standards change and/or new features come available. How? Download? Send the system in? Etc.

5) CTC. Does the system have a way to interface with a CTC functionality. Through a computer such as JMRI? Through a more hardware-based solution like a traditional CTC panel?

This is my top 5 (and I'm purposely limiting it to 5). These are simply MY key issues, and I haven't addressed things like full NMRA compatibility (or lack thereof), support for sound and how complete/effective that support is, etc. etc. Love to hear other people's inputs!

[jfugate]

Okay, my other DCC forum clinic assumed you had already selected your DCC system, and went from there.

The "What's the best DCC system to buy?" question comes up at least once a week in this forum, so let's address it head on. The MR DCC buyer's guide was useful to a point, but it didn't really address for newbies how to determine what matters and what doesn't matter when picking a system.

So let's do that!

But first, my disclaimer:
The postings I make in this clinic are my opinions, and not everyone will agree with me. I'll try to be as fair as I can when discussing various systems' strengths and weaknesses, but it is remember, my opinion. I do stand on the fact I have over 12 year's experience with DCC and that I have owned two different vendor's systems in that time, and that I have quite a bit of operating experience using the other vendor's systems that I will discuss at length. I have also downloaded and read through the manuals on all the systems I will discuss.

TOPIC NEXT POST: How do you define "BEST" ?