Joe - maybe I will have the privilege to be the last contributor to this discussion. I am away from my home and reading this via WiFi. I wish to thank you so much for continuing this string so far.
I started 2 years ago in modeling and decided on a Zephyr which I am learning and hope to improve. Your forums sure add to that.
Look forward to seeing you in A\naheim if I can get back from Panama by then. I am missing my trains!
Cheers, Jake
MRC Wireless:
I have previously made very positive comments regarding the MRC Wireless system so it's only fair that I keep you posted regarding any negative experiences. Yesterday my LCD screen went completely blank and wouldn't come back on.So, today it's on its way back to MRC for repair. At the same time I'm asking for their free upgrade that will solve the 4-digit addressing problem that they have a fix for as I do want to start using 4-digit addresses. I've had the unit about 3 months.I still like how this system works for my operations but hope that this isn't a sign of on-going problems.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
joe, still got some questions on dcc systems. I appreciate everything you have doen so far. I am leaning between 2 different systems and have a question. How easy is it to program cvs. I have never used dcc before. I purchased bachmans dcc first .now I am installing decoders and the soundbug decoders I have require you to program cvs so bachmans out. I guess my question spans several systems. How easy is it to program and understand cvs.
edit---the 2 systems I have narrowed down to are digitrax zypher and nce powercab. leaning more towards nce right now mostly because I want a hand held throtle. and dont have the funds to go with the digitrax supercheif.
medic_149 wrote: I want a hand held throtle. and dont have the funds to go with the digitrax supercheif.
I want a hand held throtle. and dont have the funds to go with the digitrax supercheif.
My 2 cents.. even with my small 3x5 layout I -love- having a walk around throttle. I would make that a top priority. If you go with the Zephyr, price how much it would be to buy a small handheld throttle to go with it. More so since my small layout is divided into two scenes with a scenic divider.. but even without the divider its really nice being able to stand eye to eye with my locomotive as I operate it.
I have the Empire Builder for reasons which were compelling six years ago, primarily the cost and availability of a computer interface, a non issue now. I also mistakenly thought the computer interface would get around the lack of read back of CVs (not an issue with zephyr or chief) which was only partially true. If I was buying today I would probably have gotten the power cab. In fact, I am still considering the switch at some point when I can afford it, pending a test drive of the power cab, especially if I decide to go to radio control.
Chris
For starter DCC systems that have good growth potential, a couple of the two best choices are the Digitrax Zephyr and the NCE PowerCab.
To help you decide, here's some pros and cons for each.
Digitrax Zephyr
Pros -
Cons -
For modelers who need to move from DC to DCC slowly, the DC features of the Zephyr are handy. The fact going into programming mode doesn't shut down the layout on the Zephyr is a nice plus. Since Digitrax has done such a good job marketing their systems, it's very likely you will have someone nearby who can help you out if you get stuck.
My personal preference is for the NCE PowerCab. I find Digitrax products are more for those who don't mind reading manuals more frequently and have a bit more of a techy leaning. NCE's very friendly plain english button labels and their easy to follow prompts makes the learning curve for using the system quite quick -- you will have to study the manual a bit more with Digitrax, and keep it handy for things you don't do as often. Once you learn the PowerCab, you have also learned the ProCab, since 98% of the commands are the same.
I also personally find the "smart consisting" that NCE uses to be a dream come true if you model modern diesel lashups with locos that have full sound and lights installed.
However, in the final analysis, both systems will give you excellent service and it's hard to go wrong picking either one of them.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
jfugate,A slight correction: the Zephyr can handle two "jump" DC throttlepacks, not just one. Also, the 2.5 amp vs. 1.7 amp capacity difference is more than "slightly". The PowerCab has 2/3rds the power of the Z. I would agree that it doesn't matter for most home layouts, but when you're talking about a 33% difference, that's more than "slightly" (IMHO).
As for pros/cons additions, apparently the Z can handle more DCC throttles than the PC.
I would also say that the Digitrax radio, while simplex, has a greater range (no need for repeaters). The NCE radio, while duplex, has a shorter range and can require the use of expensive repeaters. I have also heard (from an NCE owner at my club) that the Digitrax 9v batteries will last a lot longer in use than the NCE AAA's.
Also, I would mention that the PC's multi-line display is far superior to the Z's 4-digit LED's.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Paul:
Thanks for the clarifications.
I feel system amp capacity is less of an issue than people make it out to be. Amp capacity, put simply, limits the total number of locomotives that you can have running on your layout at the same time.
The 1.7 amp capacity of the PowerCab allows up to 7 non-sound locos to be run at once -- while the Zephyr will allow up to 10 non-sound locos. If all locos on your layout have sound, then it's 4 sound locos (just barely) simultaneously with the PowerCab, or 5 sound locos simultaneously with the Zephyr.
Most people who go with a starter DCC system will have a small layout and most of the time will be running 1 or 2 trains at a time -- hardly the 7 locos at once that the PowerCab allows.
So I consider the amps limit in practical terms to be "slightly more" on the Zephyr. If that extra 1-3 locos makes a big difference to you between the PowerCab and the Zephyr, then you need to move beyond a starter system.
jfugate wrote:Paul:Thanks for the clarifications.I feel system amp capacity is less of an issue than people make it out to be. Amp capacity, put simply, limits the total number of locomotives that you can have running on your layout at the same time.The 1.7 amp capacity of the PowerCab allows up to 7 non-sound locos to be run at once -- while the Zephyr will allow up to 10 non-sound locos. If all locos on your layout have sound, then it's 4 sound locos (just barely) simultaneously with the PowerCab, or 5 sound locos simultaneously with the Zephyr.Most people who go with a starter DCC system will have a small layout and most of the time will be running 1 or 2 trains at a time -- hardly the 7 locos at once that the PowerCab allows.So I consider the amps limit in practical terms to be "slightly more" on the Zephyr. If that extra 1-3 locos makes a big difference to you between the PowerCab and the Zephyr, then you need to move beyond a starter system.
Joe,
You're forgetting our N-Scale friends. Those differences can become quite substantial to them. And what about the guy (I forget his name) who drops in on the Digitrax list from time to time and runs his entire basement-sized layout with a single Zephyr and no boosters?
And I have to ask - Can you really plug 7 cabs into a PowerCab system to run those 7 locos at the same time?
Steve
I think the difference is even less substantial from a "does it matter" point of view in n-scale where loco will draw .2-.3 amps at most and likely won't have sound. You are talking, conservatively, around 5 locos for Powercab concurrently which seems plenty for a starter system. I think that if the current rating for either of these is an issue then maybe you should be looking at a more powerful system.
Still, I was surprised that both units had less then 5 amps which I had mistakenly thought something of a standard for HO/N boosters.. and I suspect the difference is less one of cost and more one of creating a gap between "entry-level" and "full" products. On the bright side, less chance of a short melting something. Indeed, I would like to find a way to turn my 5 amp booster down to 2 amps on my current (no pun intended) layout which will never have more then 2-3 locos.
I think the two biggest issues a user needs to decide in choosing these is ergonomics, do you prefer hand-held or the "power pack" format, and how the software/documentation comes off to you. Both require some time actually using the unit which, while not easy in this age of scarce under-supplied hobby shops, would be the best way to buy.
On a personal note, I had not realized Powercab didnt support DC. I have several locos I don't have decoders in that I like to run for friends. I don't like the buzzing noise and it can't be good for the motor, but for the occasional gee-whiz (which is all it is for my non MRR friends) its a handy feature.
Stevert wrote:Joe, I have to ask - Can you really plug 7 cabs into a PowerCab system to run those 7 locos at the same time?Steve
I have to ask - Can you really plug 7 cabs into a PowerCab system to run those 7 locos at the same time?
Nope, only the PowerCab plus one extra cab in the basic PowerCab -- so two trains at once max with the out-of-the-box PowerCab.
You can, however, run multiunit diesel consists (not uncommon on a diesel era layout), and get up to 7 locos running at the same time spread across two trains. For instance, on my Siskiyou Line, I typically have 3 units on the point and a 2-unit mid-train helper -- and with two trains, that's 10 locos right there.
COMPARISON OF STARTER SYSTEM EXTRA CAB EXPANSION OPTIONS
The Zephyr has the advantage with regard to cabs ... it will take two additional cabs out of the box, and you can also connect two additional high quality DC power packs as throttles. You could run up to 5 separate trains with a fully loaded Zephyr. Not bad!
Either system can get more sockets for additional cabs with the purchase of additional UTP panels (universal throttle plug panels) for $15 each. Of course, then you have to foot the cost of the additional cabs.
NCE basic engineer cabs (Cab04p) costs about $70 street price ... while the Digitrax basic engineer cab (UT4) costs about $65 street price.
The NCE full-featured throttle (ProCab) costs about $125 street price, and the Digitrax full featured cab (DT400) costs about $140 street price.
So the Zephyr out-of-the-box has a one-DCC-throttle socket advantage over the PowerCab -- the Zephyr's DC powerpack option is nice, but I view it as transitory and don't recommend it as your long-term DCC throttle solution.
As to individual add-on throttle prices, the two systems are basically a wash.
P.S. It's interesting how all these trade-offs can work -- to me a lot of this is basically a wash, and you should just go with the system vendor you prefer. No matter what system you chose (Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, or EasyDCC), you should be pleased with the performance. They're all good systems.
But the throttle slot issue is a case in point. Sure, the NCE PowerCab has one less DCC throttle socket out of the box than the Zephyr. But the NCE PowerCab typically sells at a street price of $140, while the Zephyr's street price is around $160. For $15 you can get a UTP panel to go with your PowerCab, and now it has three throttle slots to the Zephyr's two -- and you've still saved yourself $5 on the Zephyr's $160 street price.
So it's largely a pitched battle, where things like user interface or amount of local support you can get will be the deciding factor. That's why I harp so much on these less obvious issues, because as far all the other more obvious considerations (price, capacity, etc), they're all so close it makes very little practical difference.
jfugate wrote: But the throttle slot issue is a case in point. Sure, the NCE PowerCab has one less DCC throttle socket out of the box than the Zephyr. But the NCE PowerCab typically sells at a street price of $140, while the Zephyr's street price is around $160. For $15 you can get a UTP panel to go with your PowerCab, and now it has three throttle slots to the Zephyr's two -- and you've still saved yourself $5 on the Zephyr's $160 street price.
Tony list the Zephyr at $160.00 and the Power Cab at $150.00. If you add the cost of a UTP panel to the Power Cab you end up with a street price of $165 for the Power Cab and I am sure someone else will come up with different quotations.
What puzzle me is the third slot added to the Power Cab, with an UTP panel does it means you can have three throttles plugged to the Power Cab at once? I do own a Power Cab and I am sure two throttles are the maximum available.
Jack W.
jfugate wrote:...COMPARISON OF STARTER SYSTEM EXTRA CAB EXPANSION OPTIONS The Zephyr has the advantage with regard to cabs ... it will take two additional cabs out of the box, and you can also connect two additional high quality DC power packs as throttles. You could run up to 5 separate trains with a fully loaded Zephyr. Not bad!Either system can get more sockets for additional cabs with the purchase of additional UTP panels (universal throttle plug panels) for $15 each. Of course, then you have to foot the cost of the additional cabs.NCE basic engineer cabs (Cab04p) costs about $70 street price ... while the Digitrax basic engineer cab (UT4) costs about $65 street price.The NCE full-featured throttle (ProCab) costs about $125 street price, and the Digitrax full featured cab (DT400) costs about $140 street price.So the Zephyr out-of-the-box has a one-DCC-throttle socket advantage over the PowerCab -- the Zephyr's DC powerpack option is nice, but I view it as transitory and don't recommend it as your long-term DCC throttle solution. As to individual add-on throttle prices, the two systems are basically a wash. P.S. It's interesting how all these trade-offs can work -- to me a lot of this is basically a wash, and you should just go with the system vendor you prefer. No matter what system you chose (Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, or EasyDCC), you should be pleased with the performance. They're all good systems.But the throttle slot issue is a case in point. Sure, the NCE PowerCab has one less DCC throttle socket out of the box than the Zephyr. But the NCE PowerCab typically sells at a street price of $140, while the Zephyr's street price is around $160. For $15 you can get a UTP panel to go with your PowerCab, and now it has three throttle slots to the Zephyr's two -- and you've still saved yourself $5 on the Zephyr's $160 street price.So it's largely a pitched battle, where things like user interface or amount of local support you can get will be the deciding factor. That's why I harp so much on these less obvious issues, because as far all the other more obvious considerations (price, capacity, etc), they're all so close it makes very little practical difference.
jalajoie wrote: jfugate wrote: But the throttle slot issue is a case in point. Sure, the NCE PowerCab has one less DCC throttle socket out of the box than the Zephyr. But the NCE PowerCab typically sells at a street price of $140, while the Zephyr's street price is around $160. For $15 you can get a UTP panel to go with your PowerCab, and now it has three throttle slots to the Zephyr's two -- and you've still saved yourself $5 on the Zephyr's $160 street price.Tony list the Zephyr at $160.00 and the Power Cab at $150.00. If you add the cost of a UTP panel to the Power Cab you end up with a street price of $165 for the Power Cab and I am sure someone else will come up with different quotations.What puzzle me is the third slot added to the Power Cab, with an UTP panel does it means you can have three throttles plugged to the Power Cab at once? I do own a Power Cab and I am sure two throttles are the maximum available.
Yes, I stand corrected. Just adding the extra slots isn't enough.
CSX Robert wrote:There is a very important difference between the extra cab capabilities of the Zephyr and the PowerCab. You can add several UTP panels to either system for about $15 dollors each, but with the PowerCab, you can only use one additional throttle at a time, and if you have the SmartBooster, you can use up to four throttles at a time. With the PowerCab, if you want more than 4 throttles, you have to upgrade to the PowerHouse Pro. With the Zephyr, you can use up to 10 throttles at one time(and one of those 10 does not have to be the built in throttle, so if you want to use 10 walk-around throttles with the Zephyr, you can).
Thanks for the corrections, Robert. So much for my ability to digest the manuals ...
Just so it's clear -- the Zephyr out of the box does have a much larger max throttle capacity (10) than the PowerCab (2).
I don't consider the Smart Booster to be a wise investment unless 4 cabs is all you ever will need. If you ever expect to need a full PH Pro system, you're better off to bite the bullet and go to the full PH Pro without stopping at the Smart Booster. Once you move to the PH Pro system, the Smart Booster becomes nothing but a boat anchor -- and a waste of money. You can't use it with the PH Pro system.
Digitrax has a cleaner expansion path with the Zephyr, clearly. You don't end up with stuff you can't use later.
The limitation on throttles, and the less than optimum upgrade path are why the PowerCab will probably not be on my short list. I think that at some point I will want the capability to have more than four throttles. At least the plan will easily support that! So, I will either start Zephyr, or just skip a step and fo Pro Cab/Powerhouse system.
I have to say, that the engineer in me really doesn't think much of the PowerCab's method of having the booster integrated into the cab, either. I guess one could say the Zephyr is the same, but without the portability, but I still don't like it. So many things to consider!
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Hi Joe,
A fellow at our club was getting rid of some older MRR mags and I picked up the entire 1997 edition. I'm sure you remember those issues as they outlined your Mushroom Siskiyou railroad.
In the article it mentioned you were using Lenz. I know you recently went from CVP to NCE so I was wondering, if you could contrast the three different systems and why you migrated. I've read alot about your move from CVP to NCE but have not seen anything on the Lenz. I'm a Lenz with CVP wireless and really happy with it. If I were to start over today, I'd probably go NCE, but I'm not entirely confident as to why.
Best,
Joe Daddy
PS got vol 5 in the mail yesterday, waitin til some qual time to take it in!
Joe:
I bought my Lenz system in late 1993 in preparation for displaying my layout in the 1994 National Convention in Portland, OR. Lenz wanted to have a prominent layout on the layout tours using DCC so I got a great deal!
THE LENZ SYSTEMI picked Lenz because at the time, a third party was building some simple engineer throttles with a large throttle knob -- and no other DCC system at the time had my desired super-obvious engineer throttles, so I went with Lenz.
From 1993 - 1997, we used the Lenz system intermittently to run trains during work sessions or to run trains while showing the layout, or to test some new equipment. But no serious operation sessions during this time period. I mostly experimented with new decoders, trying to find a decoder that gave me good loco performance tuning and good lighting effects.
At the time, I standardized on Digitrax decoders -- first DH120s, DH121s, and then DH142s, and finally DH163s. In later years, I started to get a few more buggy decoders from Digitrax, and I found their implementation of BEMF less than satisfying, so I started looking at decoder alternatives. I settled on the D13SRJ from NCE as a great fleet level decoder that gives excellent slow speed performance for $12 each. I have yet to find any better fleet level decoder for the money.
We started regular op sessions once the my layout's mainline was complete in 1997. The Lenz system allowed putting locos in more than one consist, so I created double-ended consists for my loco lashups and my operating crew loved them. I did find the Lenz system's command sequences for consisting and other common programming functions to be a bit hard to remember without consulting the manual, so I made myself a "cheat sheet" to make doing these key sequences easier to remember.
The Lenz system worked very well when we used it, and running locos with DCC was a dream-come-true. I never had to think about wiring the layout for cab control ... I just made sure we had a good #12 track feeder bus running around the layout and things worked great.
I started out using live frogs on my turnouts, and I sooned discovered that it was easy to short big chunks of the layout (a whole booster district) and shut it down. Other people running trains would start hollering "Okay, who shorted the layout?" whenever it happened.
I started looking for ways to solve this issue and that's when I began experimenting with the 1156 auto tail light lamps for short management. You can find more about what I discovered here in this online video.
I'll talk more about my move to EasyDCC in my next post.
MOVING TO EASYDCC WIRELESSBy 2000, the Lenz system was 7 years old and starting to malfunction more. Plus enough had changed in the DCC landscape, I elected to relook at what was available and consider options. To me my options were between a serious system upgrade of my aging Lenz system or change to an entirely new system to get major new features not available from Lenz.
At the time, wireless was making its debut, and only two systems were in the running: EasyDCC or NCE. NCE was getting bad press about promising delivery dates and their wireless throttle prices seemed higher than EasyDCC's. Lenz had no wireless offering at the time, and Digitrax's wireless was still "coming". EasyDCC's throttles looked simple, had a prominent speed knob, and were shipping.
So I sold my Lenz system and all my throttles, which made a nice dent in the price to install EasyDCC. In short order, I had wireless EasyDCC up and running.
At first, we would lose control of at least one train per session with the EasyDCC wireless. A few months into using our new EasyDCC wireless, CVP released an upgrade. I installed the upgrade and poof! Problem solved. Our EasyDCC wireless reception was rock solid and remained such throughout our use of the system from 2000 - 2007.
I'll discuss my recent move to NCE wireless in my next post.
MOVING TO NCE WIRELESSBy 2007, a couple of my wireless EasyDCC throttles were malfunctioning, yet when I would send them to CVP, they would send them back telling me there was nothing wrong with them.
In the meantime, CVP released a major upgrade to the EasyDCC system that rendered my current throttles obsolete. Also, I was in need of moving beyond the current 8 throttle system limit. So to upgrade my now aging system to the latest stuff and get more than 8 throttles (the new upgrade moved the limit to 16 throttles on dedicated frequencies), I priced all the stuff I would have to replace (new command station EPROM, new receiver EPROM, add a second receiver, and replace my obsolete throttles), the price tag was pretty steep.
So I elected to go looking again at system options, since times had changed again in the world of DCC. Programming on the main was now main stream, so the EasyDCC power pack form factor for the command station was looking rather dated. Also EasyDCC had moved to really expensive display throttles ($230 a pop), or non-display throttles using keys like * and # to send commands. Finally, EasyDCC had continued to add annoying and unnecessary restrictions on consisting that threw a real clinker in my double-ended consisting.
It turned out that replacing all my EasyDCC system with NCE equipment was *cheaper* and a full-blown EasyDCC upgrade, and I could offset the cost of the NCE upgrade by selling off my EasyDCC system. As a bonus, NCE recently added "smart consisting" to their system, which meant my beloved double-ended consists were built in and included the ability to control functions on other locos in the consist (like sound locos) -- so yet another vendor change seemed like it was warranted.
Looking back, I have some definite observations on the three systems. I post those next.
COMMENTS ON THE THREE SYSTEMS I'VED OWNED - LENZ, EASYDCC, AND NCELenz continues to lag a bit in features compared to EasyDCC and NCE -- for example, Lenz offers no true wireless throttles (they offer an option that let's you adapt a wireless phone as a throttle). For someone like me who greatly prefers a simple engineer cab with a prominent throttle knob -- using a wireless telephone for a throttle isn't appealing.
You also have the option of the CVP wireless throttles with a Lenz system -- but that option was not available back in 2000 when I wanted to go wireless -- plus it still has the 8-dedicated frequency limit of the old EasyDCC wireless, so that wasn't an option in 2007 when I started looking at current system offerings again.
I do have to say that Lenz's service has been second to none. Debbie Ames, the head of Lenz US, has bent over backwards for me -- personally contacting me when I had an issue. She had me send in the bad part and within a week I had a free replacement. Now that's service!
The EasyDCC wireless system also was rock solid after the upgrade back in the early days when we had a few problems with the wireless. Only in the last year that I had EasyDCC did the wireless throttles begin acting up. I was a bit dismayed that CVP could not find anything wrong with the throttles, and because they were phasing out that particular throttle model, they were not eager to just replace the boards in my aging throttles. They preferred to protect their stock of replacement parts (so it seemed to me), so my only practical option appeared to be upgrade to newer throttle models -- models which I really didn't like as well.
EasyDCC, being a vendor who you must order from directly, has less price competition so I've noticed their prices have been edging up in recent years. For example, their wireless display throttle sells for a whopping $230, compared to $180 (street) for NCE full-featured dogbone throttle. With EasyDCC, to go beyond 8 dedicated throttle channels, you need to buy a second receiver.
And EasyDCC's constant eroding of the ability to do nested consists in their system made it increasingly difficult for me to do double-ended consists. I could hand program CVs directly and get the effect I was after, so their system complaining that what I wanted to do was not allowed just annoyed the bejeebers out of me.
Long story short, the EasyDCC system, while rock solid, was evolving in the wrong direction in both price and features to suit me. So I switched.
NCE wireless started out in 2000 being fraught with issues and whenever I would run on a layout with NCE wireless, I would be reminded that my decision to go with EasyDCC wireless was a good one.
However, circa 2005 NCE came out with their rev 2 wireless, which I was hearing improved things considerably. Based on this report, I went with NCE wireless instead of spending a small fortune upgrading my aging EasyDCC system.
I quickly found that rev 2 NCE wireless was reliable in the sense that you did not lose a loco easily while operating, but the system could lose keypresses, which 25% of the time would make blowing the horn or acquiring a loco a rather annoying process.
In the spring of this year, NCE announced their rev 3 wireless. The improvement is nothing short of amazing! Wireless NCE now operates just as if you were plugged in in all respects, and it has much better range than rev 2. I was able to walk out into my back yard with the basement door open and blow a flawless grade crossing horn sequence on one of my consists with my back turned to the house!
That's 75 feet through my body and at least two stud walls. NCE rev 3 wireless is easily now as reliable and rock solid as EasyDCC, so I am a very happy camper!
I love the ability to do smart double ended consists in NCE with just a few key presses, and the ability to do programming on the main (POM) from anywhere is a definite plus. For example, NCE throttles have a "momentum" button that uses POM to set the consist momentum decoder values on the fly, to simulate a heavy freight train.
As more ways to use POM are thought of, I expect the rich features mobile POM gives will become a highly sought-after feature of DCC. And NCE is one of the forerunners in exploring enhanced DCC features like this.
jfugate wrote:Thanks for the corrections, Robert. So much for my ability to digest the manuals ...Just so it's clear -- the Zephyr out of the box does have a much larger max throttle capacity (10) than the PowerCab (2).
Actually, it's 10 LocoNet throttles plus the two Jump throttles for a total of 12.
Plus, you don't have to use (or buy) power packs for those Jump throttles. If you have a little electrical skill, it's possible to build very low cost, tethered hand-helds that do the job nicely. Here are links to three examples:
http://www.tandre.net/Trains/Firebaugh/Current/JumpThrottle/index.html
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?=&p=82066
http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/zephyr-cab.htm
jfugate wrote: Digitrax has a cleaner expansion path with the Zephyr, clearly. You don't end up with stuff you can't use later.
Absolutely! And if/when you do need to upgrade, and you decide to use the Zephyr as a booster, you still retain the use of it's built-in throttle and the two Jump throttles.
Thanks for the chronology and rationale concerning your experiences with Lenz/CVP/NCE! Interesting reading.
Wonder why you stepped past Digitrax? My own limited operating experience with Digitrax Radio has been disappointing. 3 different layouts built by different people and no common hardware and I lost control of my locomotive on each of them multiple times.
Reviewing the NCE & Digitrax websites, it looks like NCE is focused on wireless and Digitrax is focused on transponding and signals. With my interest and determination to have computer controlled continious operation, Digitrax does apeal to me.
You commitment to this thead is laudable.
jfugate wrote: No matter what system you chose (Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, or EasyDCC), you should be pleased with the performance. They're all good systems.
No matter what system you chose (Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, or EasyDCC), you should be pleased with the performance. They're all good systems.
Hey Joe....you forgot MRC!!!
(Now let me step back and duck before you lob your grenade)
Seriously, MRC's Prodigy Advance Squared (PA2) offers a package that has appeal to both beginners and for those desiring a full-blown, feature rich system. For only $30-$40 more than a Zephyr here is what you get:
For $189 you get:
Prospective DCC users may want to give MRC some consideration and at least determine what PA2 can do that others can't, and likewise what others can do that PA2 cannot do. This would then allow an intelligent choice based on what one really needs.
P.S. For most users I would not recommend the MRC Prodigy Express. The PA2 offers so much more for not that much more money. The PA2 could well be the only system one might ever need, without the need for any upgrades.
Jerry:
Thanks for keeping me honest -- yes the MRC PA2 finally puts MRC in the running as one of the more serious DCC system vendors. Although I hope they come down on the price of their announced computer interface, since a price of $200 is about double that of the other 4 systems!
NCE and EasyDCC's full systems both come with the computer interface included, so to compare apples to apples, bumping the price of the MRC PA2 by $200 is enough to put them out of consideration for use on larger layouts -- especially given the lack of history MRC has of being a DCC vendor with quality products that last.
HE:
We're talking HO, right?
How many locos do you anticipate running at the same time?
Do you expect to be running sound locos routinely?
Generally, you want yards or major switching areas to be their own booster power district. Beyond that, you break up the other areas based on how many trains will be running and the total current needs of the other areas.
Jerry SP FOREVER http://photobucket.com/albums/f317/GAPPLEG/
GAPPLEG wrote:... I'm ordering an NCE Power Pro any day now and a bunch of decoders, I plan on getting the USB interface so I can use JMRI software as well.
CSX Robert wrote: GAPPLEG wrote:... I'm ordering an NCE Power Pro any day now and a bunch of decoders, I plan on getting the USB interface so I can use JMRI software as well.If you are getting the PowerHouse Pro and not the PowerCab, then I would suggest that you not get the USB interface. The USB interface is really designed for the PowerCab. It can be used with the PowerHouse Pro, but it has several limitations when used with it(you can read what they are here:http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/hardware/nce/NCE.shtml). The PowerHouse Pro has a serial port built in. The easiest thing to do is use a PC with a serial port, but if you don't have one, you'll need to get a USB to serial adapter.
Actually, depending on what you plan to do, you might need both interfaces. That's because the PowerHouse Pro doesn't echo to the serial link any information about what handheld throttles are doing. Obviously then, the computer can't act on throttle commands it never sees.
So, for example, using the NCE serial port you can't trigger a route in JMRI by entering a switch command on the throttle. For this you'd need the USB interface, which plugs into the throttle buss (and I believe uses a throttle address).
But that may introduce another element of complexity. I know that JMRI can currently handle up to four concurrent layout connections, but I believe it's based on the assumption they'll be to different control systems (eg, DCC and C/MRI). I'm not sure how it would handle two connections to the same control system. You may have to define them to JMRI as two different NCE systems, then keep track of which commands/responses/devices belong to each.
That would be a question for the JMRI developers on the Yahoo! list
GAPPLEG wrote:Specifically asking Joe , but all can jump in if info is available for me, Which NCE decoder would be the best one for converting older Athearn units (SD7 especially) also is there a source where I can find 2-56 nylon screws for some units that need them for isolation of the motor. I'm ordering an NCE Power Pro any day now and a bunch of decoders, I plan on getting the USB interface so I can use JMRI software as well.
GAPP:
Kadee sells nylon 2-56 screws. I always try to keep some on hand for projects such as yours where a nylon screw works better than a metal screw.
I'm running an Athearn SD7 that's been detailed to be an SD9E as my yard switcher SP 4326. It's using an NCE D13SRJ decoder and it runs very nice, with excellent slow speed performance. In fact, it runs better the the P2K SD9s on my layout, with power pickup performance being better than the P2Ks.
Athearn SD7 detailed out as an SP SD9E and running in yard switching duty on the Siskiyou Line (click image to enlarge)
The install itself is nothing fancy. I just remove the two motor clips, solder a wire to each clip, then put the bottom motor clip (the one with the prong protrusions) on top of the motor and put the top smooth motor clip on the bottom of the motor. I put some electrcial tape on the chassis where the motor seats to insulate it from the frame, and push the motor back in place using the rubber motor mounts.
With the motor isolated from the frame, I hard wire in the decoder and simply taped the decoder in place on top of the motor with some transparent tape. By using the jumper wire harness that comes with the D13SRJ, you can unplug the decoder and replace it later if you want with any decoder that uses the 9-pin edge connector design (about 60% of the HO decoders on the market today use the 9-pin decoder edge connector design).
Let me know if you'd like to see the CV settings I'm using and I'll post them.