Thanks for the comments Simon .... I do appreciate you taking the time to give me your 2c worth. It is good to hear that both systems are solid performers with few problems. Being a newbie reliablility is a MUST HAVE. I will have enough of a learning curve .... I don't need a system that is unreliable and will give me fits by not functioning properly.
I haven't completed reading the PowerCab manual yet, but it does seem to have more features than the Zepher. I'm hoping others will also leave comments ... good and bad experiences.
Thanks
Kent S
I have the Digitrax Chief. I love it, and the manual is clear, comprehensive and easy to understand.
I have never used the other brand, or the Zephyr.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Kent,
Simon has given you a well-rounded answer for both Zephyr and Power Cab systems. Either one will work very well for you and each one has it's pluses for going with it.
I bought my Bachmann E-Z Command in early 2005 and had it for a year. I then migrated to the Power Cab in February 2006 when it first came out because of it's greater capabilities. I later added the Smart Booster (SB3) to the Power Cab in November 2006 and have been very happy with that set up ever since.
With the SB3 installed, I now have total freedom to plug and unplug the Power Cab around my layout. If I want, I can also use the Power Cab at my bench for progamming, then take it over to the layout to run trains. I like the Power Cab because the throttle button configuration and programming menu is very intuitive...for me.
One big advantage Digitrax has over NCE is in the upgrade path. With Digitrax, you can pretty much incorporate everything from your Zephyr and use it with the Super Empire Builder (SEB) without losing anything. While the Power Cab can be used with the Powerhouse Pro (PH Pro) as an extra throttle, the SB3 can't. So, you are out the $$$ that you paid for SB3 if you upgade.
Bottom line: Either system will be very reliable and make your DCC experience an enjoyable one. You just need to determine which one is going to best meet your needs - both current and future.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Thanks Tom! Its great to hear from someone who has personal experience with one of the systems I'm considering. I did finish reading the PowerCab online manual... and it left me with a few questions. Hopefully you won't mind answering some for me.
1) At 2 amps, how many locos can you run? and with how many accessory items? I'm hoping to hear 4 locos. Plans are for a least 1 frieght and 1 passenger, both will probably have 2 locos.
2) Can the PowerCab control a DC loco or a DCC ready loco without a decoder installed?
The documentation for the PowerCAb didn't show a complete diagram (or photo) of track/accessory connections. The Zepher has mulitple connection points: Track Power : Programming Track DCC signal only : and seperate power for turnouts, and other accessories.
3) Does the PowerCab also have multiple power connections for these different uses?
Thanks again Tom for your comments. I do appreciate the education I'm getting here by reading this (and other topics) on the forums.
Kent
HOW MANY LOCOS CAN I RUN?
To determine how many HO locos you can run, here's a simple guideline:
Non-sound loco: 0.25 amps
Sound loco: 0.50 amps
So the Powercab can run about 6 non-sound locos, or about 3 sound locos.
WHAT ABOUT DC LOCOS (WITH NO DECODER)?
Sorry, the Powercab doesn't do DC locos, period.
Once you see how poorly DC locos perform on a DCC system (any DCC system) using this feature, you will realize running DC locos this way is a stop-gap feature at best. You get much better performance by running a loco with DCC and and decoder.
WHAT ABOUT A SEPARATE PROGRAMMING TRACK CONNECTION OR ACCESSORY POWER?
Sorry, the Powercab doesn't have a separate programming track connection. For that you need to upgrade to an SB3.
The Powercab also doesn't have a separate accessory connection for turnouts, etc. Any accessories you power with your system will cut into the system's loco running capacity, so it's not recommended that you power turnouts/accessories off your DCC system that provides the track power. Doing so is a stop-gap measure, and you should not plan on doing this long-term.
CONCLUSIONS
The Zephyr gives you a lot for the money, including the ability to run DC locos and the ability to use a normal DC power pack as a throttle. If you already have a big investment in DC equipment, then the Zephyr's abilities will be handy as a stop-gap. But longer-term you will want to move to straight DCC because loco performance is better. The power pack form factor is a bit less useful than a true walkaround form factor would be.
The NCE system has the advantage that it uses the same user interface *exactly* as its big brother the Procab system, so once you learn the commands, you've learned the system for all-time. Digitrax uses a lot of somewhat different key labels and different command sequences in all their throttles, so you will have to learn the differences. NCE also uses true duplex wireless, so if you want to eventually move to total wireless DCC with no need to ever plug in, NCE currently has the best upgrade path.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
Burbank Bill wrote: You got that right. I have had my Digitrax Chief for a little over a year and have never been able to get the setting up of routes to work. Sent the whole works in twice and they tell me nothing is wrong. I use there DS64 stationary decoders and I believe that is the problem so I have to set up my routes through the DS64s instead of the DT400. If anyone has been able to work this feature I would like to hear from them. Got no help from the Digitrax forum. Bill
You got that right. I have had my Digitrax Chief for a little over a year and have never been able to get the setting up of routes to work. Sent the whole works in twice and they tell me nothing is wrong. I use there DS64 stationary decoders and I believe that is the problem so I have to set up my routes through the DS64s instead of the DT400. If anyone has been able to work this feature I would like to hear from them. Got no help from the Digitrax forum.
Bill
I have 5 DS64s and a Super Chief and I've programmed all of my routes in the DS64s. I prefer that as opposed to using the routes supported in the DCS100. I've got some routes that cascade across 3 DS64s and have up to 17 commands being executed. I'd save DCS100 routes them for stationary decoders like the DS44s etc, where routes aren't supported. With DS64s there is no reall reason to use DCS100 routes. For routes on your Super Chief system did you check Option Switch 26 on the DCS100 ? The default is thrown, which allows routes but it would be good to check. If it is closed routes won't work.
Maybe you can describe what happens when you try to enter routes in the DCS100 ?
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Well, it looks like Joe has already answered all your questions. I'll just add a couple of additional points.
1. The Power Cab is a throttle/command station/booster all rolled-up-into-one:
2. The Power Cab plugs into the left (powered) connector port of the PCP panel. An additional throttle can be connected to the right connector port. The wall transformer connects to the back of the PCP panel.
3. The Power Cab comes with a 7' (RJ-12) 6-connector cable. That makes it a tethered walk around system. If you want true walk-around capability, you'll need to add the Smart Booster (SB3) or upgrade to the PH Pro. For my small 4 x 8, the SB3 works just fine.
4. Before I purchased the SB3, I had the PCP panel connected to an Atlas slide switch so that I could switch between my programming track and the layout. (An SPDT - single pole, double throw - switch will do the same thing.) Now that I have the SB3, I have no need for the slide switch.
To run my layout, I merely plug into a UTP panel. And I can have as many UTP panels situated around my layout as I want because they are all daisy-chained together. The PCP panel is still needed for programming locomotives but is completely isolated from the rest of the layout.
Kent, if you'd like to read additional information on the Power Cab, click on my web site link at the bottom of this post and go to my Review page. You'll find an initial review of the Power Cab, as well as a review of the CAB-04 throttle and the Smart Booster. It's primarily my initial thoughts and impressions but does discuss some of the capabilities of each.
Hope that helps...
jfugate wrote:The NCE system has the advantage that it uses the same user interface *exactly* as its big brother the Procab system, so once you learn the commands, you've learned the system for all-time. Digitrax uses a lot of somewhat different key labels and different command sequences in all their throttles, so you will have to learn the differences. NCE also uses true duplex wireless, so if you want to eventually move to total wireless DCC with no need to ever plug in, NCE currently has the best upgrade path.
Joe, that's misleading.
In both cases, the manufacturer makes both "full-featured" and "engineer" cabs with different layouts.
The PowerCab/Pro Cab may be the same, but the Cab04 and Cab05 aren't laid out the same as each other or as the PowerCab/Pro Cab.
How is that different from Digitrax's DT400 and UT4 ("all their throttles") not having the same layout?
And speaking of having to "learn the differences", don't some of the PowerCab's abilities (like the ammeter) go away when it's used as a Pro Cab? Aren't those "differences" you'd have to "learn"?
If you're talking about the Zephyr having a different layout, well sure, as a stationary system it has a completely different design philosophy. So of course it's different! After all, if NCE ever came out with a system designed for stationary use, I'd really hope it wouldn't be a(n even bigger) hammerhead with rubber feet.
But you know what? If you plug a DT400 or UT4 into that Zephyr, both the DT400/UT4 and the Zephyr will continue to work exactly the same as they did before they were plugged together. None of the abilities of either one changes or goes away, and there aren't different key labels or different command sequences, so there are no differences (as you describe them) to learn.
Steve
Steve:You always keep me honest, don't you? It's true that the NCE PowerCab and ProCab have a few minor command differences, but you'll have to study the manual really closely to find them. It's probably two or three commands out of a hundred or more, so it's maybe a 2-3% difference, and those minor differences are not common comands you use very much.On NCE to address a loco with your throttle:
For Digitrax systems, the differences are more significant, even for common commands like selecting a loco. The differences used to be really very different, but Digitrax is getting better with their newer products -- a point which I often make when discussing the user interface of the various DCC system. Here's a specific example.
jfugate wrote:Steve:You always keep me honest, don't you?
Steve:You always keep me honest, don't you?
Well Joe, somebody has to!
jfugate wrote: It's true that the NCE PowerCab and ProCab have a few minor command differences, but you'll have to study the manual really closely to find them. It's probably two or three commands out of a hundred or more, so it's maybe a 2-3% difference, and those minor differences are not common comands you use very much.On NCE to address a loco with your throttle:PowerCab: Press "Select Loco", type in the loco's digits and press enter.ProCab: Press "Select Loco", type in the loco's digits and press enter. Cab 04: Press "Select Loco", type in the loco's digits and press enter.Cab 05: Press "Select Loco", type in the loco's digits and press enter. For Digitrax systems, the differences are more significant, even for common commands like selecting a loco. The differences used to be really very different, but Digitrax is getting better with their newer products -- a point which I often make when discussing the user interface of the various DCC system. Here's a specific example.Zephyr: Press the LOCO key. Type in the loco address on the keypad. Press LOCO again.UT4: Dial up the loco number on the thumbwheels, then press the SEL key.UT2 (discontinued): Dial up the loco number on the thumbwheels, then press ACQ/DISP key.DT300 (discountinued): Click the throttle knob you want to use to activate it. Press the SEL key. Turn the left and right throttle knobs to select the loco address you want. Press SEL again once you have the address showing in the display.DT400: Click the throttle knob you want to use to activate it. Press the LOCO key. Type in the loco address on the keypad. Press LOCO again.If you move to other common DCC operations like consisting, the Zephyr and the DT400 command sequences differ, so Digitrax is more consistent than they used to be, but is still more inconsistent than NCE, and that was my point. If you want mimimal commands to relearn between throttles, NCE does a better job than Digitrax.
It's true that the NCE PowerCab and ProCab have a few minor command differences, but you'll have to study the manual really closely to find them. It's probably two or three commands out of a hundred or more, so it's maybe a 2-3% difference, and those minor differences are not common comands you use very much.On NCE to address a loco with your throttle:
If you move to other common DCC operations like consisting, the Zephyr and the DT400 command sequences differ, so Digitrax is more consistent than they used to be, but is still more inconsistent than NCE, and that was my point. If you want mimimal commands to relearn between throttles, NCE does a better job than Digitrax.
First, we need to throw out your mention of the UT2 and DT300. Those are not produced any more, haven't been for years, so anyone buying one would presumably know what they're getting into. In other words, not the target audience for this thread. You even mention they're discontinued, so why even bother to list them other than to cloud the issue?
Considering current production throttles, we have the Zephyr, the DT400, and the UT4. Well, the Zephyr and the DT400 are essentially the same. You mention having to click the knob on the side of the DT400 you want to use, but that is merely to set the focus to that throttle. You don't need to do it unless your're running two locos at once. So unless you choose not to use the default (right-hand) throttle, there is no difference between the Zephyr and the DT400.
That leaves us with the UT4. Are you aware that it was designed based on LOTS of input from the Digitrax user community? Digitrax asked it's users what they wanted in a utility throttle, and those users spoke. All you have to do is check the Digitrax Yahoo! group archives since much of the discussion took place there. So yes, the UT4 is different, but the differences are the result of the UT4 being designed how the users wanted it to be!
Again, we're talking about three different throttles with three different primary usage patterns, so it's not unreasonable to have some format differences between them as well. That's especially true given that the throttle with the most differences, was designed with those differences in response to user preference.
For what it is worth, I have a Zephyr as my command station, a DT400 and a UT4 throttle, so one of each of the current production model Digitrax throttles. Indeed there are some subtle differences between them, however the basic method of operation is very very similar as one would expect. Myself, and my 8 and 10 year old boys have no problem operating these throttles and swapping back and forth between them. We also periodically run trains on a large layout with a selection of older DT100's thrown in for good measure and again, not an issue. I can not see how these minor issues could seriously detract from anyone's enjoyment of running a Digitrax system? We are talking about a learning curve here of less than 1 minute. So I grant you the point that there are differences, but you are really splitting hairs here on a minor issue.
Joe, I also take slight issue with the statement that the PowerCab has the best upgrade path. You have even mentioned yourself that if you take the logical upgrade path of PowerCab-PowerCab + Smartbooster then to Powerhouse Pro that you end up with a boat anchor for a Smartbooster. In addition you end up with useless ancillary parts, and for that matter the 1.7amp booster circuit that came with the PowerCab in the first place. I know that you were driving at the point about duplex v simplex radio, but I don't think it is a fair sweeping statement to cover all aspects of the upgrade path.
The Zephyr on the other hand has a very nice upgrade path where you are not left with a lot of redundant parts. I have added a 5A booster to my layout and still have the 2.5A booster of the Z powering a second power district. With the ability to add radio, detection and signalling one could make an argument that Digitrax actually has the better upgrade path.
In my opinion each company has taken a different approach to this. It is a matter of personal opinion which offers the best solution for any given user. I would respectfully suggest that anyone that likes the NCE product and seriously expects to end up with a Powerhouse would be better off just getting the full system in the first place.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Simon, I will only add to what you just wrote that all Digitrax DT throttles are two complete throttles in one handheld. Therefore it is possible to control two trains simultaneously, something I can't do with my Power Cab or with a PH Pro system. The recall button on NCE will let you control more than one train but one at a time not simultaneously.
I am a Digitrax Super Chief user at my local club, a NCE user on a huge PH Pro powered system. I also own a Digitrax Zephyr for my home modules and I own a NCE Power Cab that I use as a Pro Cab on the PH Pro layout.
For my home needs I prefer the Zephyr because it is much more powerful then the Power Cab, more cabs are supported right out of the box, 2.5 amp. versus 1.7 for the power cab etc.
Jack W.
Joe, I also take slight issue with the statement that the PowerCab has the best upgrade path. You have even mentioned yourself that if you take the logical upgrade path of PowerCab-PowerCab + Smartbooster then to Powerhouse Pro that you end up with a boat anchor for a Smartbooster. In addition you end up with useless ancillary parts, and for that matter the 1.7amp booster circuit that came with the PowerCab in the first place. I know that you were driving at the point about duplex v simplex radio, but I don't think it is a fair sweeping statement to cover all aspects of the upgrade path.Simon
Simon
Simon:
I agree with you, so if I said different somewhere, then I was mistaken or I mistyped something.
The PowerCab upgrade path to a ProCab is not very good, because you end up with extra parts. Now having said that, the other truth with NCE systems is they do not keep the main track powered when you go into programming mode, while the Digitrax systems DO keep the main track powered. If you start with a PowerCab, I recommend the next step be that you just go for the ProCab and don't go to the SB3.
What you end up with if you take this approach with NCE is you get a system for running a programming track (the PowerCab) and a system for running your layout too. You can wire a toggle switch to the programming track so you can connect it to the layout, run the loco you want to program on to the programming track, then throw the toggle to program and connect to the PowerCab. Meanwhile, your main track stays powered by the ProCab, so the layout stays up.
And when you're not using the programming track, the PowerCab dogbone throttle is a regular ProCab full-function dogbone throttle.
This way nothing is lost in the upgrade path and you get an NCE system with a separate programming track that's useable during an op session just like Digitrax does. However, it's also true that DCC has progressed to the point that Programming on the Main (POM) can be used for 99% of your programming needs and a programming track can be reserved for just the "tough debugging cases" when programming decoders. In this case, bringing down the layout while using the programming track is not as big a deal because you probably won't be debugging a loco decoder issue right in the middle of an op session anyway.
But I absolutely concede the initial point that the NCE upgrade path is not all that great, and Digitrax's upgrade path is better. If you go with an SB3 as part of your NCE upgrade path, you end up with having spent money for parts you can't use if you then move to a full ProCab system.
First, we need to throw out your mention of the UT2 and DT300. Those are not produced any more, haven't been for years, so anyone buying one would presumably know what they're getting into. In other words, not the target audience for this thread. You even mention they're discontinued, so why even bother to list them other than to cloud the issue?Steve
Steve, your point is quite valid that for people looking at getting into DCC, Digitrax has mended a lot of their older ways. The newer stuff is much better all the way around -- better manuals, more consistant user interface, and so on.
Yet, I don't feel it's fair to just sweep it all under the rug either. There are still differences between the command sequences to do the same thing with the Zephyr and a DT400 in other common functions like consisting. More differences than with NCE's starter system and their top of the line system.
Even though the older Digitrax throttles are no longer produced, people should also be aware they may encounter them on Digitrax layouts.
For example, when I go run trains on my friend Charlie Comstock's layout, he uses Digitrax. While I know how to read a Digitrax manual and understand how to use the system, I don't have the system so I don't commit the manuals to memory.
So I pick up a UT2 throttle and start looking for a select or loco button, but no dice. "Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?" is my cry. "Dial up the number and press ACQ" is the reply that comes back. Okay, after a couple tries I get it to work, then I'm off.
Next train I get a UT4 throttle. Hey, no ACQ button. Again the cry goes out, "Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?" The answer comes back, "Dail up the loco number and press the SEL key". Oh, okay, got it. Doesn't seem like this should be so hard, but oh well.
Next train, someone brought their DT400, so they hand it to me to use. Hmm ... no ACQ, no SEL ... and again I ask, "Hey, how to you assign this thing to a loco?" ...
I have a lot of guest operators on my HO Siskiyou Line, where we now use NCE. I tell everyone at the beginning of the session, "No matter what throttle you are using, press Select Loco, type in the number, and press enter". End of training and I get no questions during the op session asking, "hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?"
That's a real life (admitedly just a luck-of-the-draw worst case) personal example illustrating how this issue can play out in real life for a guest operator using Digitrax.
Digitrax is better than they used to be, to be sure. But NCE's system will need less handholding of guest operators than Digitrax ... although Digitrax is gaining on NCE. However, Digitrax is not neck-in-neck with NCE in ease of use -- yet.
I notice that all of the comparisons of minor differences in how locomotives are selected between different throttles and different manufacturers don't include the ability to recall previously selected locomotives. If someone has say 8 DCC locomotives and their throttle can remember more than 8 then they may choose to simply recall a previosuly selected locomotive and not reacquire one by punching or dialing in its address. Another thought which comes to mind about how much weight someone will place on this function vs. other things like overall features, expandability and such. I know when I chose my system I saw all of the less filling/tastes great debates over how user friendly one system is vs another. I took that into consideration but it was a minor consideration for me and I weighed it against all of the other evaluation criteria. Lastly, I often see discussions where folks will waffle over one system vs another, especially when looking at the higher end systems and will chose the lower end system to save $100-150. When I think of this over the life of the system, this becomes the cost of one DCC equipped sound locomitve. If I were making that decision I'd opt to put off the purchase of one locomotive, especially if I thought I might upgrade in the future anyway.
I looked and looked. I read a few manuals. I played with a few at train shows. Then I chose the Digitrax Chief. Not the radio version. Well, not yet. It's an easy enough upgrade.
I always think about the future, so I chose the one that could be expanded the most and the easiest.
Jeff:
Absolutely ease-of-use is only one of the many criteria you should be using to decide on the system that's best for you. Ease and cost of expansion is another. What everyone around you is using is another (ease of getting support/able to buy fewer throttles because people can bring theirs).
And the list goes on ...
As has been said before, there is no "best" system, only the best system for YOU.
I've been off line for a couple of days ... come back and find lots of comments and great information. I do want to take the time to thank everyone for their input. Especially to Joe for the excellent responses to my questions.... they were very helpful. By giving me the amps used by the locos, I can now calculate the max number of locos each system can handle.
I read a review about the PowerCab on another site (maybe tonys trains) and the author said when he added the 4th loco it would trip the breaker on the PowerCab. He didn't say if they had sound decoders or not ..... or if they were in consist or 4 singles.
Personally, for me ... Operating 5 locos (3 trains at once) would be an extreme. The track plan is for only 4x16 with 2 lines. More than a basic loop .... but nothing extravagant.
The more recent conversations about upgrading (adding power boosters or complete systems) has also been a learning experience for me.
Simon ... since you are experienced with a Zepher, do you find the 2.5 amps enough power to handle your needs? How many locos can it handle at one time.
I think the PowerCab control is great! But with some of the other features offered by the Zepher ..... I am leaning towards the Zepher and adding a ut4 for some walk around flexiblity. Who knows, next week I might change my mind! (I feel like a kid in a candy store, and I'm 58 year old!)
Thanks to all for the great forum and the comments. It is apprecated.
kent s wrote: I've been off line for a couple of days ... come back and find lots of comments and great information. I do want to take the time to thank everyone for their input. Especially to Joe for the excellent responses to my questions.... they were very helpful. By giving me the amps used by the locos, I can now calculate the max number of locos each system can handle.I read a review about the PowerCab on another site (maybe tonys trains) and the author said when he added the 4th loco it would trip the breaker on the PowerCab. He didn't say if they had sound decoders or not ..... or if they were in consist or 4 singles. Kent
Kent when doing your maths with the Power Cab make sure you use 1.7 amp not 2 as it is listed on NCE web site. My own Power Cab is a 1.7 amps system.
Thanks Jack, I did notice that before. In the advertisement brochure it says 2 amps, but in the technical info it does say 1.7. That is one of the reasons I'm leaning towards the Zepher with its 2.5 capability.
Thanks,
kent s wrote:Thanks Jack, I did notice that before. In the advertisement brochure it says 2 amps, but in the technical info it does say 1.7. That is one of the reasons I'm leaning towards the Zepher with its 2.5 capability. Thanks,Kent
Kent:
I think the whole question of amp capacity is over blown on small layouts where 1-2 trains at a time is the norm.
That extra 0.8 amps on the Zephyr is only valuable if you plan to be running more locos at the same time. The PowerCab will let you run up to 6 non-sound locos at once, while the Zephyr will let you run up to 9 non-sound locos at once. Do you really plan to run 9 locos at the same time?
There may be many good reasons to go with the Zephyr on a small layout, but the amp capacity differerence between the PowerCab and the Zephyr should not be the one deciding factor unless you plan to run more than 2 trains at a time with sound.
kent s wrote: Simon ... since you are experienced with a Zepher, do you find the 2.5 amps enough power to handle your needs? How many locos can it handle at one time.
Kent, I have added a 5 amp DB150 booster to my layout. The booster handles all the main lines and the Zephyr booster handles the yard area. I never hit the limits of the Zephyr and probably did not need a booster. I wanted to get a DT400 throttle and got one in a low cost Empire Builder set that I purchased off e-Bay. I basically got the booster for $20 more than it would have cost me to get the DT400 from a web dealer. As to how many locos I can run in the Zephyr power district, I don't actually know for sure. I might try an experiment to see how many it will handle.
jfugate wrote:First, we need to throw out your mention of the UT2 and DT300. Those are not produced any more, haven't been for years, so anyone buying one would presumably know what they're getting into. In other words, not the target audience for this thread. You even mention they're discontinued, so why even bother to list them other than to cloud the issue?SteveYet, I don't feel it's fair to just sweep it all under the rug either.
Yet, I don't feel it's fair to just sweep it all under the rug either.
Nor is it fair to imply that folks will somehow be forced to use, or deal with the differences of, out-of-production throttles.
jfugate wrote: Even though the older Digitrax throttles are no longer produced, people should also be aware they may encounter them on Digitrax layouts.
That's a personal choice of the layout owner, not any kind of Digitrax requirement.
Besides, didn't CVP make radio throttles for NCE at one time? I suppose you could still encounter those, too. But you'd be all over me if I said that's a good reason to avoid NCE.
jfugate wrote: For example, when I go run trains on my friend Charlie Comstock's layout, he uses Digitrax. While I know how to read a Digitrax manual and understand how to use the system, I don't have the system so I don't commit the manuals to memory.So I pick up a UT2 throttle and start looking for a select or loco button, but no dice. "Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?" is my cry. "Dial up the number and press ACQ" is the reply that comes back. Okay, after a couple tries I get it to work, then I'm off.Next train I get a UT4 throttle. Hey, no ACQ button. Again the cry goes out, "Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?" The answer comes back, "Dail up the loco number and press the SEL key". Oh, okay, got it. Doesn't seem like this should be so hard, but oh well.Next train, someone brought their DT400, so they hand it to me to use. Hmm ... no ACQ, no SEL ... and again I ask, "Hey, how to you assign this thing to a loco?" ...I have a lot of guest operators on my HO Siskiyou Line, where we now use NCE. I tell everyone at the beginning of the session, "No matter what throttle you are using, press Select Loco, type in the number, and press enter". End of training and I get no questions during the op session asking, "hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?"That's a real life (admitedly just a luck-of-the-draw worst case) personal example illustrating how this issue can play out in real life for a guest operator using Digitrax.
Again, that's a personal choice made by the layout owner, not a Digitrax requirement or limitation. It's not the way most layout owners (that I've met, anyway) operate. (And wasn't Charlie the guy who hated Digitrax, but installed it on his layout anyway? Somehow it doesn't surprise me that he's the one who put himself in this worse-case situation.)
Most layout owners settle on a single cab style for operations, or possibly two. And even those two are often variations of the same cab (eg, radio for mainline and tethered for yard).
It's simply not the norm for a layout owner (even Digitrax layout owners, Charlie notwithstanding), to search out one or two examples of every cab they can find just to confuse guests. And it's certainly not a Digitrax requirement that they do so.
I have owned and operated my Digitrax Super Chief system for about ten years. I started with radio and got one DT100R throttle with my set (still have it in operation). When I wanted to expand my layout and needed another booster, I purchased an Empire Builder set because I got a DB150 and another DT100. I sent the DT100 to Digitrax to be upgraded to radio. I have had only a few OPS sessions but several open houses where I permitted visitors to run trains with the DT100. I dialed up the loco and the visitors had no problems operating the controls with simple instructions.
For operating I also purchased two UT-1 throttles. These were very easy to use and my visitors liked them. They were limited to two digit addressing. I sold them because thy could not be upgraded to radio.
I have since purchased two DT300R throttles and find them as easy to uses as the DT100. Most visitors and/or operators do not program during an operating session so the throttle is used to stop and go, and most visitors can use them with a few simple instructions.
I purchased a DT400R throttle as I was advised it would be great for programing. I never learned to use it for programing as I migrated to Decoder Pro. I do keep it for an extra operating throttle.
All of my future digitrax throttle purchases will be DT4. They are easy to use. The entire DT4 throttle manual is only four pages long and can be downloaded for the Digitrax web site. I also have simple one page "cheat sheets" regarding the operation of the DT100, DT300 and DT400 throttles...hey sometimes I forget!
I do not believe the mix of throttles will be a problem. I have asked this question of other Digitrax owners with few complaints.
I have an off layout programing track with a computer interface. If a locomotive nends programing, I opt to remove it from the layout for the programing. My programing track is also a 6ft test track so work can be done on a locomotive without disrupting layout operations.
Is Digitrax beter than NEC? I don't know, but my Digitrax system continues to serve me well....10 years and counting.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Simon, Joe ....
Thank you both for your comments. As always they are appreciated.
As far as the number of trains (locos) I would have running; Ultimately, I would say 3 trains ... containing 5 locos. 3 with dcc & sound, 2 with dcc only. ( 1 steam & 2 sets of A/B desiels). Planned layout size is 4x16. It would be nice if the zepher or the powercab could handle all of it without needing additional boosters for having to get a larger system.
I would NOT be apposed to getting a Digitrax Super Chief or ProCab if I found a decent used one on e-bay at a reduced price ....... but Im not going to hold my breath on finding it! lol
Thanks again gentlemen....
Mr Fugate
I would like to thankyou for starting this thred as it has helped me decide what system to go for.I'm not that sharp with computers or dcc but am going to take the plunge
thanks again
Gav.
Gav .... Which system have you decided on?
When I convert to DCC, budgetary constraints will probably force me to get an intro level DCC system and a couple of decoders. I currently have 4 "DCC-ready" locos, 2 fairly new DC locos, and 8 older (as in-1980 or earlier) pure DC models. Naturally, most of these older locos have sentimental value, and I wouldn't really want to quit running them completely. I know I can install decoders in the DCC ready ones, and can probably get the 2 newer DC ones up and running. However, I'm not convinced that I will ever be able to convert the old dinosaurs.
Ideally, I would like to run the old locos simultaneously with DCC locos, but I recognize that this may not be possible. Alternatively, I would like to be able to run the old DC locos at different times, without a lot of complicated block or A-B switch wiring.
So my question is, which is the most DC-friendly of the intro systems? Is there one that can run one DC loco along with one or two DCC locos simultaneously? Or am I stuck with, at a mininum, an A-B switch and keeping the old DC power pack.
Any insights would be appreciated.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I think the Digitrax Zephyr is the only entry level system that will allow you to run one DC loco at the same time with DCC locos. This would be a good way for you to keep running those old locos.
Also, your old DC power pack can be used as an extra throttle with the Zephyr. It would be limited to speed and direction controls only but could come in handy when running more than one train or with more than one operator.
Lenz also allows one DC loco but it would cost more than the Zephyr. Not sure about EasyDCC systems.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!