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Cnverting DCC locos to DC

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  • Member since
    March 2021
  • From: Vermont
  • 135 posts
Posted by Ablebakercharlie on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 8:35 AM

doctorwayne
DC may be "old school", but it's reliable, easy to troubleshoot and much more affordable than DCC

And that is why I am old school DC too!!

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 1:48 AM

gmpullman
Broadway Limited had their Stealth series, before Blue Line IIRC, back in 2005. You really can't blame them if they "ran it up the flagpole" and nobody saluted. It would seem there simply wasn't enough response to make it economically viable.

Sorry, my issues with BLI are personal because of how they handled my 2-6-6-4.

I had no problem buying a DCC and sound equipped model, I just wanted to know how to properly remove the decoder.

SoapBox

OK, I won't say anything more about it now. Sorry for ranting. I feel better.

Smile

-Kevin

 

Living the dream.

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 11:55 PM

SeeYou190
Are you listening BLI?

Broadway Limited had their Stealth series, before Blue Line IIRC, back in 2005.

You really can't blame them if they "ran it up the flagpole" and nobody saluted.

It would seem there simply wasn't enough response to make it economically viable.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/47369.aspx

 Even a little mud-slinging in that old thread Surprise

https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/060854/HO-BLI-1081-Broadway-Limited-Stealth-Series-ATSF-3800-Class-2-10-2-3877-No-Sound-or-DCC

 

Regards, Ed

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 11:52 PM

SeeYou190
SeeYou190 wrote the following post an hour ago: CSX Robert Some locomotives are only available with DCC and sound. That seems to be where the market is heading, so the upscale model train locomotive market has left me and "MikeyChris" behind.

Kindly count me in with your "left behind" group.  My layout is strictly DC, with no fake sounds (depending on what my last meal might have been, of course), and no lights on locos, and cabooses, and none in or on passenger cars and structures, either, as I don't do "night" operations.  I put a lot of effort into my layout, and want to see all of it, all of the time.
My locos are all self-speed matching...simply hang a substantial train on them and they cooperate just fine.  No bus wires, either - two wires to the track near the powerpack power every piece of track on the layout.

While I almost never run more more than one train at a time, I have run over a dozen locos at one time, as an amusement chase for my grandkids. 

 

DC may be "old school", but it's reliable, easy to troubleshoot and much more affordable than DCC.

As for DCC sound, I'd rate the diesel sounds to be pretty good, those for steam, less-so.  However, I do remember steam, and its sounds. 

I spent almost four decades in a steel mill...I don't need anymore sounds, real or artificial.

Wayne

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 10:39 PM

CSX Robert
Some locomotives are only available with DCC and sound.

That seems to be where the market is heading, so the upscale model train locomotive market has left me and "MikeyChris" behind.

That is OK. To get the locomotives I want, I would be willing to buy one with DCC and sound. I understand the realities of manufacturing.

I would buy one...

IF...

The manufacturer would provide the information and/or any parts needed to easily and correctly remove the decoder and convert the locomotive to basic silent DC operation.

Are you listening BLI?

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Christiana, TN
  • 2,134 posts
Posted by CSX Robert on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 9:36 PM

Lastspikemike
If you actually do prefer DC only, you're not just claiming to, then stop buying locomotives with DCC and sound. Simple solution. 

Some locomotives are only available with DCC and sound.

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 3:16 PM

Lastspikemike
The easiest way to run a dual mode constantly in DC is to unplug the decoder and plug in a "dummy plug" which restores the direct wiring between power pickup and power outputs.

Unless it is BLI's BlueLine, there is no provision for a dummy plug. More often manufacturers are phasing out the use of the NMRA 8 pin plug.

Good Luck, Ed

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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 3:07 PM

I’m somewhat confused, from your Bio you have the experience to convert your locomotives to DC operation easily.

I would just remove the decoders and wire them for DC operation and experiment with the lighting.

I too am a DC guy at hart but wanted sound and after dinking around with Mel added sound for years I decided to go DCC just for the sound.  I operate my layout dual mode, DC or DCC, DCC mode when I want to hear the chuff of my articulated locomotives.  About 60% DC 10% DCC the rest scenery.

I too am somewhat of a collector, I’m really into restoring clunkers off eBay and train shows.  I have a bit over 70 locomotives all restored to as good if not better than original out of the box. I only have 12 decoders and swap them around, I wired all my locomotives for DCC operation using the standard DCC 8 pin sockets with DC adapter plugs for DC operation.

You could go dual mode easily without changing anything, run your DCC locomotives on DCC and the rest in DC mode.  A low priced DCC controller could be hooked up to your DC wiring using a DPDT switch.  I use a relay with the coil operated by the accessory terminals on my DC power pack.  When I turn on the DC power pack the relay pulls in and switches the track from the DCC controller to the DC power pack.

Good luck which ever way you go!


Mel


 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 2:57 PM

MikeyChris
Please, no comments on WHY I prefer DC.

--
Truly though it makes more sense to just switch over to a DCC system and add decoders to your DC only locomotives.

And there we go...

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 1:59 PM

MikeyChris
Please, no comments on WHY I prefer DC, I DO for many reasons.

I also prefer DC, and do get annoyed when people constantly ask why.

It comes down to these three factors for me:

1) I own an extensive fleet of DC locomotives that I do not want to replace or add decoders to.

2) I do not want sound at all.

3) I am 100% competent at wiring and troubleshooting DC systems with no help from others.

DC is right for me, and it sounds like for you as well.

I do wish that manufacturers would simply include a jumper plug with locomotives where we could unplug the DCC decoder and run on normal DC. I am also not happy with dual-mode decoders at all.

If this "DC mode jumper" was in there, I would certainly buy more locomotives.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 1:51 PM

MikeyChris
My question is: since they all have lighting features and some have DC sound, am I just trying to do something not worth doing?

The one "sure-fire" way to make your locomotives operate on DC rail power is to simply eliminate the decoder altogether.

A second method might require more experimentation and may, or may not, provide you with "DC sound and lighting effects", and that would be to clip the two motor leads and solder them to the right (+ for forward) rail pickup and left pickup.

This is "essentially" the way the Blue Line locomotives were wired, with a "dummy plug" substituting an additional motor-only decoder.

In the case for older QSI and also the BLI Paragon sound you will not get any steam "chuff" sound since the decoder relies on motor resistance or in the Paragon, a reed switch chuff sensor.

I'm presently ripping the guts out of several BLI steam locomotives. In my case I'm replacing older QSI decoders with more recent, aftermarket sound decoders.

Part of this process is stripping the locos to bare bones wiring. In the case of BLI steam you have (generally) rail pickup from both sides of the drivers and sometimes trailing trucks and one side of each tender truck.

Thus you can directly solder the motor leads (again motor + to the right rail will move the loco forward) and you'd be done.

Getting into lighting you have to determine weather your headlight is a 1.5 volt incandescent lamp or an LED. There are "constant brightness" diode lighting circuits out there you can use to at least maintain the headlight function.

Eliminating the decoder completely, of course, eliminates any source for sound. 

You could experiment with bypassing the decoder as in method one, wiring the motor directly to each rail pickup and see if you still have "some" sounds remaining in "DC mode" but without feedback from the motor you may not have any kind of "chuffing" or diesel prime mover reving sounds.

Good Luck, Ed

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Cnverting DCC locos to DC
Posted by MikeyChris on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 1:11 PM

Hi All,

I run old school DC but have some "dual mode" locos that really don't run well on DC. I want to remove the decoders and hardwire them for DC. My question is: since they all have lighting features and some have DC sound, am I just trying to do something not worth doing? Please, no comments on WHY I prefer DC, I DO for many reasons. The reason I bought the locos I did (mostly BLI, both steam and diesels) is because I wanted the road name/paint schemes. But if I can't run them decently, they will just sit on the shelf. The issues with running are: too much momentum, limited speed control range due to the limited voltage swing (seems like between 8 volts and full throttle is about it), the Rapido SW1200RS's and RS18's have the same issues along with weird lighting issues (like class lights on one side work, but not the other). But my main issue is limited speed range control. BTW I'm using MRC 9500 power packs. they perform beautifully on my older DC stuff. Thanx!

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