crossthedog If the switches are on a central panel, then how are they wired to the block's rails? Because the feeders have to be very short.
There is no need for the wires from the DPDT CO toggle to the track to be very short.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
7j43kYou've got a lot of what appear to be gapped rails--too many for me.
Woops. Sorry, Ed. None of the joints are gapped. I just drew them that way so we could talk about the joints and see the locations we were talking about. The turnouts from the main into the yard/branch and all the turnouts (curved and straight) inside the yard are so far joined only with rail joiners. The west side of the mainline is pretty much all soldered both rails at each joint, except the west siding turnout. I wanted to get all this good info before I added gaps or plastic rail joiners or dropped any feeders.
All these responses are very helpful, and especially your assesment of what blocks make sense.
In reading back all the way to Mel's response, I keep wondering if there's a piece of this I'm not correctly imagining, and it's about the location of the DPDT switches. If the switches are on a central panel, then how are they wired to the block's rails? Because the feeders have to be very short. So when we talk about block wiring, are we saying that each block has its own bus that runs out from the DPDT switch on the panel to where that block's feeders come down?
Yes, okay, I will read more books
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
crossthedogBelow is a crude drawing of my layout
By the way... BRAVO on the quality of your "crude" drawing.
It was easy to understand and interpret. The addition of an easy to interpret drawing will always get you better answers.
If you're going to run DC locomotives, the best thing to do is to wire the layout as two-cab DC. You power each block with a DPDT center off switch. Two wires run from each block to its own switch. You can assign any block to either cab, or shut it off. True, you can't run more than two trains at once. I don't like to run more than ONE train at once, so I don't see the point.
You've got a lot of what appear to be gapped rails--too many for me. For example, D, E, and F should be just one block. The pink "main" over on the left, should also include at least the two switches (G and A). C and B should be just one block. The two J switches should be a single block. That crossover setup in the lower left just might should be left alone. Some thought might resolve that.
One of the ways of figuring out block placement is to imagine running trains on it. Will it work?
Looks like you then have about 15 blocks. That's 15 switches laid out on a track map.
I wouldn't use the Atlas switches. They're too big and too limited. Just use "regular" toggle switches.
You can use really teeny wire as a drop from the rail above to down below. 22 gauge, or even smaller. That's because you will use a VERY short piece of it. Below, you will connect to the bigger wire, and run back to your DPDT's. 14 gauge is not a bad choice, though you could likely go smaller. This all assumes you're soldering the 22 gauge wire to the rail. You might also consider soldering SOME of the railjoiners. Every section of rail that ends in an unsoldered rail joint should hae the 22 gauge tap wire. You should never depend on slide-on rail joiners for electrical continuity.
When you want to run DCC, you replace one of the power packs with you command center. MOST people will also suggest you make sure to disconnect the other power pack, just in case.
I recommend getting a book on layout wiring. Kalmbach has one out right now:
https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/product/book/12491
I used Westcott's book from half a century ago--not much has changed for DC wiring:
https://www.amazon.com/Railroad-Wiring-Everyone-RAILROADER-LIBRARY/dp/B0028J0Z8I/ref=sr_1_6?Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=32&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=8&dchild=1&qid=1625427899&refinements=p_27%3Alinn+westcott&s=books&sr=1-6&unfiltered=1
And read them. Most everything we're telling you here is in there. And much more.
Ed
snjroyI use DCC and I would recommend feeders at each 36" of track
I use DC, and have also found that feeders every 36 inches even in the same block is a very good idea.
I use DCC and I would recommend feeders at each 36" of track - more if you have many joiners. So the simplest way to do this is to run a bus wire. But if you plan on having many DC blocks, then a common bus makes no sense. Looking at your layout I can see two locos running, one on the mainline and one on the yard. Three blocks should suffice. So 3 sets of bus wires maybe?
Simon
I’m old school and for a small layout like yours I would go with block wiring and forget buss wiring.When I wired my layout I went with two conductor twisted pair #19 AWG Bell wire home runs back to my control panel. Each block has a DPDT center off reversing switch.That will work with both DC and DCC. Each home run will handle 2 amps which is more than sufficient for two locomotives in each block.My layout has a total of 28 blocks, the mainline has 10 blocks the rest are yard and sidings. My mainline is 121' so about 12' blocks.
It has worked fine for me for over 30 years both on DC or DCC.EDIT:I thought I should explain the switches on my control panel. They are mini toggles with colored slip on covers on the handle.White is lighting – SPST, ON-OFFRed is turnout control – SPDT, On-OFF-On momentary.Blue is Block Control – DPDT, ON-OFF-ON (Reversing)Green is turntable control - DPDT, ON-OFF-ON (Reversing) & OFF-ON momentaryYellow is Special – DPDT, ON-ON (Track continuous 12 volts DC power for charging on board batteries)Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
I know you guys have missed me, so here's my next unbelievably Electronics 101 question. Yes, I could study wiring books, and I actually have been studying Atlas' Wiring Your HO Layout by Paul Mallery Associates, which is thorough enough and has great illustrations but was written in 1958. I thought it would be a good place to start and it's been useful. But a lot of water has gone over the dam since then, so I figured I'd see if I could rouse some of you guys from your Independence Day torpor.
Below is a crude drawing of my layout with (almost) all the turnouts lettered and each of the three joints for each lettered turnout given a unique identifier. (A1, A2 and A3 for turnout A, etc.) Some turnouts are back to back with others, or back to front, so some joints share a number (B1 and C1 are the same joint, for example, as are G3 and J3).
To see at max resolution, click open, then close, then click image open again. (I don't know why.)
Things to note:
I plan to run a bus line under the mainline, waggling it a little like a radio wave to enable shorter feeders from the branch, spur and yard tracks. I've got 14 gauge for the bus, and 22 for the feeders.
What I want to be able to do in DC is to isolate the yard and the branch from the mainline -- I guess we call that creating blocks -- so that I can run trains separately in all three at the same time, one mixed local up the branch, a bigger freight or passenger train on the mainline, and a switcher switchin' in the yard. The siding is not so important to isolate.
I need to know two basic categories of very specific info, and I wonder -- is it an easy thing to communicate them using the diagram above?
1. Which joints on this diagram should I use isolating rail joiners at to achieve the three main blocks?
2. What connecting wires would need to be added from one rail to another to power the sections that would lose power with the abovementioned isolation?
If trying to get specific wiring info on my layout this way is a fools errand, I'm able to hear and accept that. I'm also able to hear that I should just knuckle under and keep reading until I understand (and venture more recently published books). But I quickly get overwhelmed with discussions of bifurcating potentialities, and I thought, if the Forum Guys knew exactly what I'm trying to do and what my track looks like, it may be as simple as saying, "run feeders down north of turnout D, use isolating joiners at the east rail at B1 and the west rail at D3, and run a wire from this frog or that diverging rail," etc.
Another question is, should I even bother with a bus line for such a small layout (http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/287927.aspx)? I do have one DCC loco and plan to someday have more. Easy to do. I drilled holes for the wires to pass through the stringers when I built the benchwork, and I have all the wire and connectors.
Any help appreciated, with my advance thanks. I humbly submit my enduring ignorance in the service of one more functioning model railroad in the universe.
-Matt