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"A POSSIBLE TRACK CLEANING SOLUTION"

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  • Member since
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  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 7, 2021 4:42 PM

Doc Wayne swears/used to swear by lacquer thinner, and that is what CMX recommends.  I have just acquired that car and used a PCM Y6-b to shove a Walthers track cleaning car ahead of the two around my entire system.  From looking at both pads (went through three with the CMX), they're doing 'something', and my train performance has never been better.  

What remains to be seen is how durable the effect will be.  My train room is a mess now as I am finishing the yard and pouring dirt and spraying adhesives into it. It's generally not a dusty room, but....we'll see over the summer how things go.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 7, 2021 3:00 PM

SeeYou190
All this chatter about heptane, gasoline, and anti-knock additives, has not been helpful.

Says half of the mistaken 'experts' that got the dumb discussion going in the first place... Whistling

One thing helpful that came out of it is that you don't want to use a product containing substantial heptane as a cleaning solvent for model railroading!  As I recall that was being implicitly recommended -- in fact, I think actively advanced as a good choice -- at one point in the discussion... Angel

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, April 7, 2021 2:46 PM

This thread was about track cleaning for our model trains.

Spraying contact cleaner, in small amounts, onto a paper towel and wiping the rails is a usual and effective way to do this.

TrainsRMe and CNR378 shared stories how this was successful.

All this chatter about heptane, gasoline, and anti-knock additives, has not been helpful.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 7, 2021 2:42 PM

Once again, goddamned Kalmbach is erasing post after post as they screw with something, and I have no more family-friendly tolerance today for their demonstrated incompetence.

The one thing correct in this farrago is that it was not right to 'correct' Mike for posting that a product containing a considerable proportion of straight-chain heptane would not behave like 'gasoline' as a solvent.  Most gasoline does, in fact, contain a significant percentage of n-heptane, and many of the associated characteristics (and health risks) will be common between heptane and 'gasoline'.

Most of the rest is just wrong in a variety of ways.

Heptane is arbitrarily ASSIGNED a 'knock index' of zero, as a pure reference, representing propensity to knock if it were the only fuel fed to an engine.  Likewise the iso-octane with IUPAC name 2,2,4 trimethylpentane is assigned an index of 100, representing its behavior if it were the only fuel in an engine.

This does not mean that 'gasoline' bought as a fuel is a proportional mixture of those specific hydrocarbons.

Straight-chain octane is NOT the material used as the upper-end reference in these tests.

As with the Centigrade temperature scale, there are plenty of prospective 'fuels to be burned in a combustion engine' with detonation propensity far greater than heptane, or far greater than 2,2,4 trimethylpentane.

Additives are often provided in motor fuel that affect its "octane number" however that number is calculated or determined.  These may include promoters or 'antiknock additives' such as tetraethyl lead.  These of course have nothing to do with either heptane or any eight-carbon hydrocarbon.

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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, April 7, 2021 8:59 AM

Overmod

 

 
SeeYou190
I spray the CRC onto a paper towel and wipe the track with that.

 

Be sure you're wearing gloves impervious to the solvents (probably at least 4mil nitrile or chloroprene) and be very careful not to breathe the overspray and spent propellant that the paper towel doesn't catch.  And wrap the "applicator" up in something like a plastic grocery bag afterwards to minimize 'human contact exposure' Smile...

 

 

That is precisely why I avoid these toxic products. My solution: keeping tracks accessible (a design issue), using rubbing alcohol and a rag to clean the track, and running trains daily to remove corrosion.  The last technique is my favorite Smile.

Simon

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:40 PM

Lastspikemike
Literally, heptane has zero anti knock enhancement (duh) because it has no anti knock additives.

This is another one of the topics where you are talking like an expert when you obviously are not.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:41 PM

Is the CRC product in the Canadian Tire link the same stuff ? There is no mention of the 2-26 aspect on the can. I'm assuming it probably is, but we all know what can happen when we assume ....

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by TrainsRMe1 on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:11 PM

Cool My RailFriends                                                                                                  Here is the news, I'm happy to say that the CRC 2-26 is a suscess!!! I sprayed some on folded sheet on paper towels, wipe it on the track and vioa!! perfect connection!!!!!

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 12:36 PM

Overmod
Interesting that the link as posted is invisible -- that may be some ad blocker at work.

Perhaps, but it's visible to me and does work, too.  I wonder if the "upgrade" of this forum will address issues like this?

Wayne

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:58 AM

Interesting that the link as posted is invisible -- that may be some ad blocker at work.  There appear to be several redirects through information-harvesting sites before the information actually resolves.  The actual link is to this:

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/crc-electronic-cleaner-128-g-0381712p.0381712.html

Anazing the amount of tracking data presumably about Wayne and his preferences that I had to remove even from the final page URL to be able to post it 'non-doxxingly'... Angel

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:14 AM

hon30critter
Wayne, your 'Edit' to your last post apparently wasn't complete. It only said "Here's the" and nothing more.

That's what I see, no link.  

Mike.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 1:42 AM

hon30critter
Wayne, your 'Edit' to your last post apparently wasn't complete. It only said "Here's the" and nothing more.

Hmm....there is a working link after "the", but you're right, it doesn't show the correct product, even though my search included the correct data.  I can check here in town, to see if they carry the correct stuff, as we're not yet in lock-down.

Wayne

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, April 5, 2021 11:21 PM

I checked Canadian Tire's website. They carry several CRC products but they do not list CRC 2-26. That doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have it, but I won't be able to go to our local store for a couple of months or more, both because of Covid-19 and my ankle.

Wayne, your 'Edit' to your last post apparently wasn't complete. It only said "Here's the" and nothing more.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, April 5, 2021 3:18 PM

Overmod
Technically, heptane is almost like an anti-gasoline; it is the substance that is the reference for zero octane in fuel rating 

I always thought Propane was the reference for zero Octane, oh well. I don't miss trying to explain how the Methane Number is different for natural gas than the Octane Number for gasoline.

Lastspikemike
For when the duck tape runs out of stick. Which it does in sunlight and enough rain.

You need to buy better quality duct tape. Compromise elsewhere.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by John-NYBW on Monday, April 5, 2021 1:27 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
TrainsRMe1
Happy Easter MRRDERS.

 

I thought this was internet slang for Murderers! I do not like this abbreviation!

Surprise

Anyway... never spray WD-40 on your layout. Also, WD-40 is not a penetrating oil, which many people assume.

Do keep WD-40 on hand. It can be a miracle worker for all kinds of things.

Stuff you need in your house...

WD-40

PB-Blaster (penetrating oil)

Permatex Silicone Lubricant Spray

For track cleaning I will also state that CRC contact cleaner on a paper towel is great. Do not use CRC Brake and Parts Cleaner! It is not plastic safe.

-Kevin

 

Any self respecting man should be able to fix anything with either WD-40 or duct tape.

If it moves and it's not supposed to, use duct tape.

If it doesn't move and it's supposd to, use WD-40. 

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 5, 2021 12:11 PM

Technically, heptane is almost like an anti-gasoline [in the sense of 'gasoline' as effective fuel for internal-combustion automobiles]: it is the substance that is the reference for zero octane in fuel rating Laugh

The isohexanes in the CRC contact cleaner are closer to how gasoline would be expected to behave (isooctane is basically fancily-substituted pentane in the first place).

(Incidentally, gasoline without 'additives' like TEL or MTBE is an excellent solvent, much better than kerosene... but it still has, ahem, certain characteristics that make it less preferable than alternatives for most purposes... Whistling)

White mineral oil has little in common with white naft, and that's the closest you're going to come to any real comparison with naphtha: the constituents of naphtha are at most around six-carbon chains where the mineral oils by most definitions start around 16.

For fun look at the stated vapor pressure ... at 20 Centigrade! ... in that Radio Shack MSDS.  I would want that stuff far, far away from me.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, April 5, 2021 11:45 AM

Lastspikemike
WD40 specialist contact cleaner is basically gasoline

Um... no it is not. I did not see anything in common with EPA approved unleaded gasoline.

Not all hydrocarbons are "gasoline" by any means.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 5, 2021 4:31 AM

It appears that we have to be careful with CRC.  There is a formula 2-26 which contains an appreciable percentage of light mineral oil (up to 20%) and if you did not want an insulating hydrocarbon layer on your railheads this would not be good. It will leave a film.

The Canadian Tire link Wayne provided apparently shows the correct 'non-residue-leaving' product, their 'electrical contact cleaner'.  The MSDS for this shows as containing acetone, isopropyl alcohol, naphtha, and isohexanes (all listed equally as composing "10-30%" of the composition as supplied.  That would certainly be effective as a solvent, but be sure to think about and then use safe practices regarding these chemicals.

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Posted by selector on Monday, April 5, 2021 4:00 AM

It is second on the list of approved track cleaner fluids, just below kerosene.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, April 4, 2021 11:54 PM

ba&prr
I use WD-40 Specialist® Contact Cleaner

Joe, I had never heard of this product. I just did some reading, and it sounds like good stuff. According to the manufacturer it is safe for plastics and leaves no residue.

Thanks for the tip.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ba&prr on Sunday, April 4, 2021 8:50 PM

I use 

WD-40 Specialist® Contact Cleaner     Joe

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, April 4, 2021 8:23 PM

hon30critter

Apparently CRC 2-26 is not available in Canada. I searched the CRC Canada website and they showed the product, but when I clicked on the 'Where To Buy' icon it said that no stores carry the product. If it is in aerosol containers I doubt that it can be shipped across the border.

Dave

Dave, I replied to this thread last night, around 5:00AM, and included a link - you can apparently buy that stuff at Canadian Tire.  I dunno where my post went, though.

EDIT:   Here's the LINK

Wayne

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Posted by TrainsRMe1 on Sunday, April 4, 2021 4:39 PM

CoolWell Friends

I went to Home Depot and found the CRC 2-26, I'll let you know how it works out, and yes, I will use gloves and paper towels!!

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 4, 2021 2:34 PM

SeeYou190
I spray the CRC onto a paper towel and wipe the track with that.

Be sure you're wearing gloves impervious to the solvents (probably at least 4mil nitrile or chloroprene) and be very careful not to breathe the overspray and spent propellant that the paper towel doesn't catch.  And wrap the "applicator" up in something like a plastic grocery bag afterwards to minimize 'human contact exposure' Smile...

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, April 4, 2021 12:51 PM

Overmod
but typical track use doesn't really favor spray from a can (as Ed noted).

I spray the CRC onto a paper towel and wipe the track with that.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 4, 2021 12:23 PM

Yes, not all products billed as 'conduction enhancers' leave a film.  I should have been clearer about that.  But much of this discussion invoked CRC 2-26, which will leave a film.  Elucidating the difference between that product and a 'contact cleaner' also happening to be provided by CRC is important.

I do suspect that where no special 'ingredients' affect the contact surface, a proper mixture of solvent and perhaps detergent would do the job about as well, or more cheaply, than a 'branded' proprietary mixture.  This might not apply to a cleaner preferentially packaged as a spray for more 'pinpoint' application, but typical track use doesn't really favor spray from a can (as Ed noted).

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, April 4, 2021 11:24 AM

Overmod
 Along with solvent cleaning they provide a mobile, thin, self-healing film which 'wets' the metal.

Several engine manufacturers specify the CRC contact cleaner as the final cleaning step for critical gasket surfaces because it leave no thin film or residue behind.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 4, 2021 11:07 AM

Lots of these traditional contact cleaners tacitly assume pressure on the 'contacts' in use after application.  Along with solvent cleaning they provide a mobile, thin, self-healing film which 'wets' the metal.  This excludes air and a range of corrosive contaminants, and displaces with pressure until (unlike a lubricant) the metallic asperities on the contact surfaces touch to allow current flow.

Incidentally many of these films happen to be insulative/dielectric for 'boring technical reasons'.  People who do not understand chemistry think that a "conductive lube" actually conducts electricity well.  They do not: they condition and maintain the surface so that with displacing pressure the underlying contact can be good.

In part this is why good 'gleaming' is important whether or not you are a "TOR application" aficionado.  In models without something like Magne-Traction or that British system with magnetic plates under the track, only rolling contact with the 'adhesive weight' of the model provides the electrical connection -- not spring pressure, wiping action, or forced 'spring-loaded' connection as in electrical switchgear or plugs and connectors.  This governs the type of 'film' best suited for model-railroad purposes.

Now, any self-healing film is likely to hold 'some' dirt or other airborne contaminants.  Key, regardless of chosen 'substance', is regular cleaning to remove this followed by re-establishment of the thin, mobile, self-healing layer.  That implies that if you use an actual cleaning solution you may need to re-apply your TOR -- but sparingly; it also follows that a pass with a John Allen-style weighted rear-side-of-Masonite pad might remove crud but leave enough of the dressing to self-heal.

There are true conductive lubricants -- they are usually heavily-loaded with conductive materials (such as silver particles) that touch in sufficient number as to give reasonable current path.  They are expensive and rare, but if used in model-railroading quantity, where 'a little goes a long way', they might be an attractive option in 'trouble spots' like some axle bearings.  Their use in place of something like De-Ox-It products for TOR might be interesting to test.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, April 4, 2021 9:33 AM

TrainsRMe1
Happy Easter MRRDERS.

I thought this was internet slang for Murderers! I do not like this abbreviation!

Surprise

Anyway... never spray WD-40 on your layout. Also, WD-40 is not a penetrating oil, which many people assume.

Do keep WD-40 on hand. It can be a miracle worker for all kinds of things.

Stuff you need in your house...

WD-40

PB-Blaster (penetrating oil)

Permatex Silicone Lubricant Spray

For track cleaning I will also state that CRC contact cleaner on a paper towel is great. Do not use CRC Brake and Parts Cleaner! It is not plastic safe.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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