Does anyone have a sledge hammer that I could borrow?
I currently own 41 locomotives, some steam with only a headlight, lots of diesels, many with just a headlight and some with a Mars light as well.
I now have 40 locomotives working prototypically, leaving only that damm Proto 2000 PA #70. After screwing around with it all morning, I finally got the headlight to function properly. But the Mars light continues to elude me.
It is always ON, and I cannot turn it OFF, and it does not oscillate. The decoder is a brand new NCE D13SRP mounted on the DC light board via an 8-pin connector. I have an identical setup on its sister loco, a Proto 2000 PA #73. So, why the Mars light doesn't operate correctly totally baffles me.
The instruction sheet is clear. It reads:
Mars Light
What we want to do: Use output 3 (marked 3 on decoder) for a Mars light. It is to be on in the forward direction only
How to do it: Output 3 is already activated by F1 (factory default setting of CV35=4). Configure output 3 as a forward only Mars light. Set CV122 to 9. We get the value of 9 by using 8 (Mars Light) plus 1 (output operates only in forward direction).
Pretty clear cut and I have followed the instructions to the letter but no luck. I even moved the wiring to output 4 just in case there was something wrong with output 3, but that didn't change anything.
Interestingly, by changing the value of CV122, I can get other lighting effects to occur like strobe and double stroble, but not to oscillate. And, no matter what I do, I cannot toggle the Mars light ON and OFF. It always remains ON.
Any ideas, thoughts, suggestions? Should I borrow a sledge hammer?
Rich
Alton Junction
I found the problem. It turned out that the 8-pin connector was not fully seated. I guess that is why I could program the decoder when plugged into my decoder tester but not on the Programming Track when plugged into the light board.
I suppose that is one more reason to hardwire the decoder to the loco, bypassing the light board. I was surprised how much force I needed to apply to that 8-pin connector to seat it properly on the light board.
Now, it is on to the lighting. I will install two Golden White LEDs today and then hopefully be finished with this nightmare.
Don't wire track power to the motor tabs and ruin on DCC - first, it won't run, because NCE can't run a DC loco on DCC, and 2, if the decoder is also connected, it will fry the motor drive of the decoder by applying track power there.
If it doesn't run on DC witht he dummy plug installed, there has to be an issue between pins of the 8 pin socket and the traces between there and the track and motor tabs - the dummy plug simply shorts the track and motor connections together. It also links the track pickups to the headlight and Mars light circuit Not sure how that could have any bearing on it - failed open would just mean the lights don't work, failed shorted means the loco would cause a short.
I'm surprised the factory Mars light circuit can flash an LED - or do you mean you repalce th headlight with an LED but leave the dual filament incandescent bulb for the Mars light?
Honestly, I would have saved a lot of frustraction and had the loco running hours ago by bypassing the factory board. Not sure what the attaction is - this is one of the more complex factory boards out there because of the fancy flasher circuit and just begs to be removed. ANd all those other ones that require traces to be cut - if ytou have to cut the traces anyway, rendering the board unusable in DC - why not just remove it and hard wire the decoder, if you want to put it back to stock you then have an unmodified factory board to put back in place.
With the E units - you don;t have to take the factory board out - just disconnect the wires at the tabs along the edges and hard wire to the decoder wires. You can clip off the decoder and reconnect the wires to return it to stock condition if you save the original lights as well. The Mars light effect is any decoder is a better representation that that dual filament bulb, and will work with LEDs.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
It looks like a simple workaround would be to jumper power from the rail tabs to the motor tabs on the DC light board. But, is there any risk in such a workaround?
I am not familiar with how DCC ready locos are wired. Does power feed directly to the motor tabs from the rail power tabs via traces on the light board? Or, is there some intermediate step in which rail power is somehow filtered before reaching the motor tabs?
gmpullman richhotrain Ed, I may have to offer you a king's ransom to sell me a fully functioning one. Looks like the E-7/8s use the same boards. I'll dig through the shoebox and see how many are in there that have the Gyralight option. I'm always at odds over throwing away "good stuff" that I'll never use. (I'll bet I tossed at least a dozen of the dual-filament bulbs, too)
richhotrain Ed, I may have to offer you a king's ransom to sell me a fully functioning one.
Looks like the E-7/8s use the same boards.
I'll dig through the shoebox and see how many are in there that have the Gyralight option. I'm always at odds over throwing away "good stuff" that I'll never use. (I'll bet I tossed at least a dozen of the dual-filament bulbs, too)
I just recently completed converting two newly purchased E6s to DCC, but I left the light boards in place and installed TCS T1A decoders with special E6 harnesses with 8-pin connectors that plug into the light boards. That made the decoder installation so easy, and the Mars lights work separately from the headlight.
That is what I want to do on my troublemaker Proto 2000 PA. I am trying to match the installation on my other Proto 2000 PA in which I kept the DC light board in place.
I never throw away light boards that I have removed when converting DCC Ready locos to DCC. I simply remove the light board and put it in the loco box. I also keep the dual filament incandescent bulbs which are intended to operate Mars lights when I remove them and replace them with LEDs.
richhotrainEd, I may have to offer you a king's ransom to sell me a fully functioning one.
I'll dig through the shoebox and see how many are in there that have the Gyralight option. I'm always at odds over throwing away "good stuff" that I'll never use. (I'll bet I tossed at least a dozen of the dual-filament bulbs, too )
The other day I was making some repairs in a bathroom that I tiled some twenty years ago. Needed six tiles to fill in a spot. Wife says, "we'll never be able to match those tiles".
Two minutes later I had six exact tiles in my hand. So that's what was in that cigar box on the top shelf in the garage!
I'll just put it on your "tab"
Cheers, Ed
Here is a photo of the DC light board.
Ed, I may have to offer you a king's ransom to sell me a fully functioning one.
I did some more testing.
I programmed the decoder on the Programming Track using my NCE DTK (Decoder Tester Kit). So, I know that the decoder works.
Without the decoder installed, I can get the loco to run on DC but only if I jumper the rail power tabs to the motor tabs.
I did some continuity tests. There is continuity on the DC light board between the 8-pin connector and the motor tabs. With the decoder connected to the 8-pin connector on the DC light board, there is continuity between the 8-pin connector, the decoder and the motor tabs.
So, for some reason, I am not getting rail power to the motor via the motor tabs on the DC light board.
Now, some will say, the heck with the light board. Pull it out and hardwire the decoder. But, I am extremely reluctant to do that because I would have to cut off the 8-pin connector which works so well on the other PA locomotive. I want that damm Mars light to work independently of the headlight.
Somewhere in this pile there's about a dozen PA Life-Like boards. In every L-L install I scrap the boards.
DCC_PCBb by Edmund, on Flickr
Life-Like used a dual filament bulb triggered by a timer on the board. I much prefer the choices offered by the lighting effects offered by most mid- to high end decoders. There's usually a choice between the Mars light or Gyralight. The Mars light makes kind of a "double-dip" in the appearance of the light whereas the Gyra is pretty much a gradual rise and fall of the light intensity, as viewed from trackside.
IMHO, the more electronics you can eliminate between the decoder and the driven device the better. Some LEDs respond to the Mars/Gyra effect better than others but in any case they're better than the dual-blinking filaments of the original L-L bulb.
I usually add another LED that illuminated the number boards alone, usually driven off F5. I like to park an engine with headlight and Mars light off but the number boards still illuminated.
Hardwiring to the decoder isn't difficult, especially with all that room inside a PA shell.
Good Luck, Ed
MisterBeasley Did you change any CV settings? On the engine that works, do you use one or two function keys to turn on the headlight and Mars light? I'm a Transition Era guy, so I don't have any of those.
Did you change any CV settings? On the engine that works, do you use one or two function keys to turn on the headlight and Mars light? I'm a Transition Era guy, so I don't have any of those.
After changing the CV settings, you are supposed to be able to control the Headlight with the FL or F0 key on the throttle. And, you are supposed to be able to control the Mars light with the F1 key on the throttle. That works on the D13SRP, but I cannot get it to work on the D13SR.
For that reason, I began to assume that you need to retain the DC light board to plug in the D13SRP through the 8 pin connector. On the D13SRP decoder, there are separate function output tabs on the decoder for the Mars light and Headlight.
On the D13SR decoder, both lights are controlled by the same function output, but the CV settings are supposed to remap the two lights to separate function outputs. But that doesn't seem to be working for me on the D13SR decoder, and that is why I switched to the new D13SRP decoder that I just bought.
But, now my problem is no power to the motor tabs on the DC light board.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Honestly, my Proto 2000 PA will be the death of me yet.
This loco is the one that constantly derailed until I finally solved the problem of a pinched wire holding the front truck off the rail at the spot of an ever so slight dip in the track.
Once that was fixed, I moved on to a new project, testing the operation of the lighting on all of my locomotives that have both Mars lights and headlights. I got that all done except for the obstinate PA loco.
I think that a bit of history is in order here to better explain my current problem. I actually have two Proto 2000 PA locomotives, #70 and #73.
The #73 PA operates the two lights as intended. The FL/F0 key toggles the Headlight on and off, and the Headlight goes off in reverse. The F1 key controls the Mars light which strobes in forward, but goes off in reverse. Perfect. But on the #70 PA, both lights are always on, forward and reverse, and I cannot turn them off.
#73 PA Locomotive - When I first bought this locomotive 5 years ago, it was DCC Ready and I installed an NCE D13SRP decoder, keeping the DC light board to plug in the 8-pin connector from the decoder. When I did that, the incandescent headlight immediately burned up, but the incandescent Mars light was unaffected. So, I removed both incandescent bulbs and installed LEDs. Everything has worked fine ever since.
#70 PA Locomotive - I also bought this locomotive 5 years ago, and I followed the same procedure as I did for the #73, using an NCE D13SRP decoder and retaining the DC light board, but I replaced the incandescent bulbs with LEDs based upon my experience with the #73 PA.
Fast forward to the recent derailment problems with the #70 PA locomotive. In searching for a solution to the derailment problems, I swapped the front and back trucks and, as a result, had to essentially rewire the locomotive.
In the process, I committed a newbie error and fried the light function output on the NCE D13SRP decoder. I had an NCE D13SR decoder on hand, so I used that decoder but, unlike the D13SRP, the D13SR didn't have the 8-pin connector. So, I pulled the DC light board and hardwired the D13SR directly to the loco and lights wires. I have tried everything, but I cannot separate the Mars light from the Headlight.
So, I ordered a new D13SRP decoder (almost impossible to find since it has been retired), re-installed the DC light board and wired it all up. But, when I put it on the Programming Track, the DCC command station couldn't even read the Manufacturer ID or Version No.
I got out my multimeter and checked all of the wiring connections. I get power to the light board. I get power to the 8-pin connector. But, I do not get power to the motor tabs on the light board. I removed the decoder and tested as a DC loco. Same problem, no power to the motor.
However, if I jumper the rail power tabs on the light board to the motor tabs, I can operate in DC. So, something is wrong on the DC light board. I don't see any evidence of the traces being cut or damaged.
A couple of questions.
One, do I risk damage if I jumper the rail power tabs to the motor tabs and operate in DCC? Or, is there a way to restore power to the motor tabs through the traces?
Two, if I hardwire the D13SRP directly to the locomotive wiring, will I be able to operate the Mars light and the headlight separately? I ask that question because I thought that I could separately control the Mars light and the headlight with the D13SR decoder and without the DC light board but, as I previously mentioned, I was not able to do that.
I look forward to any and all help and suggestions.