Merry Christmas,all!
I received an NCE PowerCab system as a Christmas gift. Set it up on Christmas day, following NCE's instructions, and all worked well for the rest of the day. Did some programming on my one DCC-equipped locomotive and was very happy with the state of affairs.
All started out fine the following day. Since the system appeared to be working as advertised, I attached the plug-in panel to my layout's fascia. Then got out my DCC locomotive and some cars to run a switching session and things went wrong. Now when I power up the PowerCab, it won't go past the first screen:
That screen stays lit for several seconds, then it goes blank, the LED on the panel blinks and it tries to start again. It can't boot the PowerCab operating system.
I removed the cars and locomotives from the track. I checked for shorts. I tried starting the system with no track power connected. I disconnected everything and rebuilt the system. I removed the panel from the layout fascia. No change.
NCE is closed until January 4 so I hoped someone here may have some insights. Thanks for your patience.
Bill
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig"
Bill,
If the Power Cab cycles power repeatedly then there defintely is a short somewhere. Try connecting your Power cab to a single piece of track. If that works then add a locomotive to it. If that works then there's a problem with your overall track configuration.
Sorry if you've already answered all this in your analysis above. I just wanted to start asking questions with a clean slate, so to speak.
Lastly, you don't have a reversing loop on your track, by chance?
Thanks,
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Tom,
Thanks for your reply. I disconnected my PowerCab from the layout and connected the track power to a few isolated pieces of sectional track. Unfortunately, the PowerCab still repeatedly cycled power as before. Good thought, though, that one escaped me.
No reversing loop on my layout. It worked fine on day 1, not sure what happened on day 2. I had been turning the power off by unplugging the cable from the throttle. When I did that yesterday for the first time it started to power up, my fingers slipped and the cable slipped out, stopping the cycle. Could that have messed things up?
No reverse loops. My layout is a 1'x6' switching layout based on Scot Osterweil's "Highland Terminal". Atlas code 100 flex and sectional track with Peco Insulfrog turnouts
Thanks again for your reply.
alfadawg01It worked fine on day 1, not sure what happened on day 2. I had been turning the power off by unplugging the cable from the throttle. When I did that yesterday for the first time it started to power up, my fingers slipped and the cable slipped out, stopping the cycle. Could that have messed things up?
I wouldn't think so.
Okay, you should have a coily-cord that came with your Power Cab. The coily-cord is only a 4-contact cable and is used for extra throttles, as it doesn't provide power to the track. (That's why the 6-contact flat cable is used.)
Connect your Power Cab to the LEFT connector port of your PCP panel using the coily-cord. Does it cycle power - i.e. like it has a short? Or, does it stay on? That should tell you if something happend to your Power Cab or not.
Also, make sure that there is nothing (e.g. stray filing or thin wire) shorting on the bottom side of your PCP panel board. Sometimes shorts can be obvious and sometimes not.
alfadawg01 I tried starting the system with no track power connected.
If that is really true, then that rules out shorts, bad wiring, tools on the track. Not that I am doubting your inteligence or honesty. There is a way to reboot the Power Cab when you turn it on.
To access the cab set up mode:1) Turn on the system power.2) Unplug your cab from the Power Panel.3) Press and hold down the SELECT LOCO button while plugging in the cab. Thecab will now enter its internal setup program. At any time you may press PROG/ESC to leave set up mode.4) Press ENTER to accept the current cab address (unless you want to change it).To change the cab address, type in a new address such as 3 followed by theENTER key. If you make a mistake just unplug the cab and re-plug it while holdingdown the SELECT LOCO key.NOTE: If you program the address to zero the cab will reprogram itself to the original factory values, including the cab address, which will be set to 2.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Could have a stray strand in the screw connector that plugs in to the PCP. Pull that off to truly disconnect track power. With just the 6 wire cord plugged in the proper side, and the AC adapter plugged in the back, it should power up.
If not - inplug the cord and check the socket on both the PowerCan and the PCP and make sure one of the fingers int he 6 pin connector didn't get bent over out of place to touch one of the adjacent pins. That would cause a short that would keep the system from booting as well.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
tstageConnect your Power Cab to the LEFT connector port of your PCP panel using the coily-cord. Does it cycle power - i.e. like it has a short? Or, does it stay on? That should tell you if something happend to your Power Cab or not. Also, make sure that there is nothing (e.g. stray filing or thin wire) shorting on the bottom side of your PCP panel board. Sometimes shorts can be obvious and sometimes not.
Connected the coily-cord in place of the flat cord. Same behavior, cycling power. Also checked the PCP panel board itself for stray stuff, but none found.
rrinkerCould have a stray strand in the screw connector that plugs in to the PCP. Pull that off to truly disconnect track power. With just the 6 wire cord plugged in the proper side, and the AC adapter plugged in the back, it should power up. If not - inplug the cord and check the socket on both the PowerCan and the PCP and make sure one of the fingers int he 6 pin connector didn't get bent over out of place to touch one of the adjacent pins. That would cause a short that would keep the system from booting as well.
Randy,
Unplugged the track power connector, pulled the wires and checked for unwanted stuff. Tried powering up with track power disconnected but same behavior. Also checked all inputs for bent pins but all were properly aligned.
Thanks for reporting back. Just for funnsies: Try plugging the Power Cab into the RIGHT (non-powered) connector port of the PCP panel using both the 6-connector flat and 4-connector coily-coil.
My guess is that it will still cycle power but...it's one more variable that you can eliminate in the troubleshooting process. And it's what you can report to NCE that you tried if and when you contact them in January.
only one of the connectors on the UTP connects to the track pins on the back of the UTP.
if the PowerCab cycles in both connectors, sounds like there's a problem with the PowerCab
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
And that's exactly why I asked Bill to test the other connector port on his PCP panel.
tstageJust for funnsies: Try plugging the Power Cab into the RIGHT (non-powered) connector port of the PCP panel using both the 6-connector flat and 4-connector coily-coil. My guess is that it will still cycle power but...it's one more variable that you can eliminate in the troubleshooting process. And it's what you can report to NCE that you tried if and when you contact them in January.
Thanks for your thorough replies. I tried powering up with the flat and coiled cables in the Right connector port. Same behavior except that the red LED didn't blink when the PC operating system failed to boot.
Thanks for all your help. Don't see any more stones to roll over.....
Yep, the red LED should not illuminate when the Power Cab is plugged into the RIGHT connector port.
Well...Sorry, Bill - I guess it's a call into NCE for you. Did you fill out the registration for your Power Cab? It's still possible that the PCP panel is the culprit. However, NCE will need both to evaluate them together.
Keep us posted...
Just a random thought....would the size of my layout's bus wires have any bearing on this behavior?
Not when the layout is totaly disconnected. There is either an issue with the OP's PowerCab Panel, or within the PowerCab itself causing a short.
I called NCE Technical Support this afternoon and had a nice chat with Matt. His diagnosis based on my description of the situation is that a fairly large short circuit fried a component within the PowerCab. So, two things will be taking place. First, the PowerCab starts it's long trek back to NCE in tomorrow's mail. Matt advised that it will be about 4 weeks once they receive it. Secondly, I need to check my layout for short circuits. That should be fun. I'm also suspicious of the freight cars that were on the layout at the time of the incident. They all have insulated metal wheelsets but they are one variable that was not ruled out.
I'm also planning to upgrade the bus wires and track power wires from the power sources to 14 awg. At least I've got 4 weeks or so to get it right.
NCE is good. Maybe nine years or so ago, the back light on my Cab failed. Since I had registered my Power Cab, they repaired it for free and sent it back to me.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Thanks for the update. I'm sorry you have to send back your Power Cab but NCE will make it good. Will you be shipping your PCP panel back with the Power Cab, as well?
In lieu of Matt's diagnosis about a "fairly large short circuit" frying a component on your Power Cab PCB, I have two questions for you:
The Power Cab should be able to handle a reasonable short and has built-in protection to handle that. However, a large short would seem more likely to come through the wall - like an electrical spike.
it's hard for me to imagine how a short can damage a PowerCab. how large a short is possible with the standard P114 (5240221) power supply, 1.8A. i believe the PowerCab circuitry can actually handle closer to 3A (see 6), but the heat generated would warp the plastic.
the problem i've had with trying to locate a short with a PowerCab is that it takes several seconds to cycle each time it detects a short. So i use a 211-2 bulb which draws just enough current to limit the current without exceeding the PowerCab short voltage. the bulb lights but the PowerCab doesn't cycle
if you have a spare power supply and a bulb, you could check for a short on you layout while your PowerCab is being repaired.
The Powercab was a Christmas gift. Was this a functioning layout before then or did you just complete construction and the Powercab was the first system to run the layout.
alfadawg01I'm also planning to upgrade the bus wires and track power wires from the power sources to 14 awg.
Power sources ? The Powercab is my source, what are you using?
tstageWill you be shipping your PCP panel back with the Power Cab, as well?
Yes, the PCP is keeping the PowerCab company. It's a long trip.
tstageDo you have your layout/Power Cab protected with a surge protector?
tstageDid a storm go through your area post-Christmas Day?
Interesting thought on the surge protector's capacity. I should check that.
Greg, I've seen the concept of the light bulb mentioned before, I will look into that.
BigDaddyWas this a functioning layout before then or did you just complete construction and the Powercab was the first system to run the layout. Power sources ? The Powercab is my source, what are you using?
This was a functioning layout with a DC power pack. I wired track power from the DC power pack and the PowerCab through a DPDT center-off toggle switch so I could use either one (but not both simultaneously!) to power the layout.
OK, that adds a new facet to the mix. Yea, between now and the time your Power Cab returns home, Bill, I would definitely double-check that DPDT switch with a multimeter to make sure that both DC & DCC wiring are TOTALLY isolated from one another BEFORE plugging your Power Cab back in again. If something bridged the gap between those two terminals on the switch then that would be enough to cook your Power Cab. DC & DCC do NOT place nice together and extra precaution has to be taken if those two systems are going to be used on the same layout.
I hadn't been following this thread until now. I read through the entire thread this morning, and I agree with Tom that the DPDT switch could be the problem.
When your PowerCab failed, were you flipping between DC and DCC operation?
Alton Junction
With the PowerCab, ensuring isolation between DC and DCC is easy - unplug the PowerCab. The circuitry that can be damaged is all in the PowerCab handheld, and the wires from the 2 pin screw terminals on the PowerCab panel go right to the outer pair of wires in the jack. It does go to the red LED, but that has a resistor good enough for full DCC voltage, so DC will not hurt it. With the PowerCab unplugged, even if DC somehow gets switched back to the DCC side of things, nothing will get damaged.
gregcit's hard for me to imagine how a short can damage a PowerCab. how large a short is possible with the standard P114 (5240221) power supply, 1.8A
it occurs to me that that the PowerCab can be damaged if an active ~2A DC power supply somehow gets connected across the PowerCab output. the combined short circuit current will be ~3.8A flowing thru the PowerCab output
it's also conceivable that the PowerCab can be damaged, even when turned off, if a higher power DC supply is connected across the Power Cab outputs. The Powercab short circuit protection doesn't prevent excessive power from coming from the track.
Tom and Rich,
The DPDT switch is on the list of things to test for anomolies. I may have switched from OFF to DCC at the time of the failure, but definately not from DC. On NCE's website a DPDT center off switch is the recommended method of having DC or DCC on a layout. Just need to check the electrical integrity of my switch and wiring.
Two discoveries have made life more interesting. The surge protector that the PowerCab was plugged into is behaving odd.....the protection cuts in and out. Replacement might be in order. I also found a turnout that was not fully closing in one direction. Something may have been knocked out of alignment during a track cleaning. The throwbar was hitting the end of a tie on a diverging track, preventing it from throwing completely. The offending tie has been trimmed and proper contact is being made again.
Never a dull moment....
alfadawg01The surge protector that the PowerCab was plugged into is behaving odd.....the protection cuts in and out.
I recommend getting a better grade of surge/transient protection, and making sure you have a good path to dissipate or redirect a good amount of surge energy (this is what is measured in joules in the documentation) all the way through a dioded (and perhaps lightning-arrested) ground connection. Some DCC equipment is too expensive to risk not carefully protecting -- just as Warsteiner says 'life is too short to drink cheap beer'.
I thought surge suppressors "burned out" with surges. Am I wrong?