rrinker It took Atrhearn a while to realize that using a cheap decoder it what was otherwise a premium model, with excellent detail and a far better motor than any priot Athearn model wasn't doing them any favors.
This thread from 2007 already has many potential buyers steering away because of the MRC decoder.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/96016.aspx
Unfortunately, there are dogs out there and has been mentioned, the potential buyer has to do a little research to weed out the chaff.
Athearn may offer some relief but they may shy away from offering warranty repair on a thirteen year old product.
Good Luck, Ed
Well, I connected the Loco to the tender on a DC track.
The Loco does not move when I increase the speed on the throttle.
The tender has all the sounds and it works.
I guess the next step would be to remove the boiler, but from what I see on the poor schematic provided by Athearn and what I have read, I am not looking forward to it
Hawks Rule I doubt that it is an old decoder. There was an estate sale last week, 90 % of the model trains had been purchased in the last 10 years and almost all of them were still new in the box and never run, including the two that I purchased. There is still a bill of sale that is dated 2011!
I doubt that it is an old decoder. There was an estate sale last week, 90 % of the model trains had been purchased in the last 10 years and almost all of them were still new in the box and never run, including the two that I purchased. There is still a bill of sale that is dated 2011!
I recall Athearn stopped using MRC sound decoders around 2008 or 2009. Athearn engines easily could have had MRC decoders sold new with MRC sound a couple years after the change to Soundtraxx decoders.
I was aware of the short comings of the MRC decoders 15 years ago and purposely avoided buying any sound equipped Athearns during the MRC period.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
RR_Mel You will need to remove the boiler to get to the motor wires. They should be the same color all the way back to the decoder. You need to check the voltage on the motor wires at the decoder, no voltage with the throttle run up the decoder is defective. If there is voltage on the motor wires at the decoder measure the terminals on the motor, the voltage should be the same. If you measure voltage on the motor the motor should be running. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
You will need to remove the boiler to get to the motor wires. They should be the same color all the way back to the decoder. You need to check the voltage on the motor wires at the decoder, no voltage with the throttle run up the decoder is defective. If there is voltage on the motor wires at the decoder measure the terminals on the motor, the voltage should be the same. If you measure voltage on the motor the motor should be running. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Well, The Athearn exploded view instructions are so bad, I woudn't even know what screws to unscrew to remove the boiler for fear of damaging the engine.
Also, I have a multimeter. In order to check the voltage on the motor wires at the decoder, which part of the multimeter do I use?
The DC V, #s 10 50 250 500 or DC ma, #s 0.5 50 250?
So, do I use DCV or DC ma and which number?
Also, do I put the two jacks on the black wire and an orange wire that go from the decoder to the tender wheel or the yellow and blue wires?
DC Volts, 50. You need to measure at the two pins of the plug on the tender that get connected to the motor. That's the hard thing to figure out without opening the loco to track the wires from the motor into the connecing cable.
It's possible it's the motor, but it's far more likely the problem is the decoder not putting out anything. You could trial and error it, although you will probably blow out the headlight bulb.
Actually - looking at the second picture of the decoder, that is closer to the front, I can see the labels. I see the second solder pad in from the edges are labelked MT - those are the motor wires. They fo to the second pad in from the edges on the board that holds the socket for the loco connection. So try this - you'll need some small diameter solid wire so it can;t touch other pins by accident. Pieces of telephone wire would work. Hokk up to your DC power pack., Put the voltage on maybe half way. On the link to the loco- CAREFULLY touch the wires to the secodn pin in from each edge. The outer two go to the loco track pickups, accidently touching that will do nothing bad. The next two workign in go to the motor. The inner two go to the headlight, and if it's like most AThearn locos with 1.5 volt bulbs, it will pretty much blow the bulb out right away if you accidently touch those pins. If the motor is good and you touch the correct 2 pins, it will spin - hope you have a cradle or somethign to support the loco upside down, you're not going to be able to hold it and touch the wires to the plug all at the same time.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
You snuck in before my edit - you can test the motor, I can see which pins are which going to the loco, without taking the loco apart.
You will be measuring DC 0-14 volts. As for wire color ? as I don’t have any idea what colors Athearn uses. Use the 50VDC position in the meter.Blue is normally accessory voltage (+) as in the headlight but yellow is normally (-) the backup light in the tender, white is normal (-) headlight. Any wire going to a wheel will be rail power into the decoder. How many wires go between the locomotive and tender? Checking the locomotive using the Ω scale for continuity: one wire should be right rail, continuity between the right rail and a pin on the connector.The wires to the motor will read the resistance of the motor (20Ω or so).The wires to the headlight will read the resistance of the headlight (incandescent 2½mm GOW 70Ω) (LED 0Ω), a multimeter on the lowest scale will normally make a LED glow with the correct polarity). Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
rrinker DC Volts, 50. You need to measure at the two pins of the plug on the tender that get connected to the motor. That's the hard thing to figure out without opening the loco to track the wires from the motor into the connecing cable. It's possible it's the motor, but it's far more likely the problem is the decoder not putting out anything. You could trial and error it, although you will probably blow out the headlight bulb. Actually - looking at the second picture of the decoder, that is closer to the front, I can see the labels. I see the second solder pad in from the edges are labelked MT - those are the motor wires. They fo to the second pad in from the edges on the board that holds the socket for the loco connection. So try this - you'll need some small diameter solid wire so it can;t touch other pins by accident. Pieces of telephone wire would work. Hokk up to your DC power pack., Put the voltage on maybe half way. On the link to the loco- CAREFULLY touch the wires to the secodn pin in from each edge. The outer two go to the loco track pickups, accidently touching that will do nothing bad. The next two workign in go to the motor. The inner two go to the headlight, and if it's like most AThearn locos with 1.5 volt bulbs, it will pretty much blow the bulb out right away if you accidently touch those pins. If the motor is good and you touch the correct 2 pins, it will spin - hope you have a cradle or somethign to support the loco upside down, you're not going to be able to hold it and touch the wires to the plug all at the same time. --Randy
So, to recap what you said:
On the second solder pad it is labeled, Pk (track pickup) black and red MT (motor) yellow and blue FL (head lights) white and green.
Do I reconnect the engine to the tender or not?
Again I am assuming that I disconnect the NCE controller, when I turn on the DC power pack
I appologize for my confusion.
1. Disconnect NCE controller and connect DC power pack to track
2. Leave tender on track
3. place loco upside down on a craddle
4. take two telephine small diameter wire thin enough to go inside pins on the loco harness for the motor and touch Blue and yellow on decoder on the tender.
If wheels spin motor is ok.
Does that sound right?
No, the tender must be disconnected. DO not apply power to the motor output of a decoder, if it wasn't damaged, it will be if you do that. You need to apply DC power to the loco side of where those points on the decoder would connect, but with the decoder disconnected. Looking at the wire from the loco, there should be 6 pins inside: ****** The motor should be the second and 5th ones: *(*)**(*)*
The two middle ones go to the headlight. The two outside ones go to the wheel pickups on the loco.
The yellow and blue points ont he decoder are the ones marked MT, so that should be the motor output. If you use the DC 50V setting on your meter, and set the tender on DCC track with the address selected, you should get increasing readings ar you increase the speed. If it always reads the same no matter what the throttle setting, there's probably a decoder issue. If it reads -, change the direction on the DCC controller and it should go toa + reading, or if it is a + reading, it shoudl go - if you change the direction on the DCC controller. Assuming you keep putting the probes on the same points of the decoder and don't reverse those.
And for testing on DC or testing on DCC - yes, you must disconnect one to connect the other. NEVER connect DC and DCC to the same track at the same time. One or the other.
I did the above with the multimeter at DC 50V and the needle moved in both directions! So, it appears that the decoder is good.
As far as the 6 pin harness on the loco, I can't find a wire thin enough to go inside the number 5 and number 2 positions on DC, so I have to try and get one.
Use straight pins. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
RR_Mel Use straight pins. Hello Mel, Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Use straight pins.
Hello Mel,
Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
If I am not understanding what you mean, then I appologize.
From what you are saying, this is how I am interpreting it.
On the Loco, there is a 6 pin harness and if you are saying to use straingt pins, you mean to insert one pin in the #2 position and one pin in the #5 position, put both pins on the track and turn on the DC power pack?
If that is right, then as I mentioned before I do not have pins or wire thin enough to be inserted in the harness.
I’m only stating that a regular household .025” diameter straight pin will fit in the connectors for testing.Follow Randy’s info. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Hawks RuleFinally, I contacted MRC, again explained the issue and the Rep told me that in some cases, NCE will have a problem reading back the CV so he suggested I reprogram the engine with another DCC system like Digitrax.
I've tried reading CVs on an MRC sound decoder with a Digitrax Zephyr, and it doesn't work - although I haven't tried it yet with a programming booster.
BTW, just because you can't read the CV doesn't mean you can't program the CV on the programming track. On MRC decoders, I can still program just fine, just can't read back.
Decoder Pro will read the CVs just fine by the way, and shows you all the options available for each setting.
I was once able to read one with my PR3. One of my fellow club memebers wanted to set something on his loco but had no idea what decoder it had in it, when I read it with DecoderPro it identified it as MRC. Some of the MRC decoders actually don't have readback at all.
Try pushing F8 three times to see what happens.
Hello All,
My last resort is to remove the boiler and check the motor wires.
After looking at the poorly written Exploded View schematic of the engine provided by Athearn, I wouldn't know what screw or what part to remove without damaging the engine.
You would think that Athearn would provide a better explanation other than just showing the schematic and part number!
Anyway, I am including the schematic link, if anyone out there can make sense of how to remove the boiler, when you open the link, scroll down to page 15 and see what can be done.
Thanks
http://www.athearn.com/ProdInfo/Files/Genesis_FEF_Northern_Manual.pdf
Hawks Rule Hello All, My last resort is to remove the boiler and check the motor wires. After looking at the poorly written Exploded View schematic of the engine provided by Athearn, I wouldn't know what screw or what part to remove without damaging the engine. You would think that Athearn would provide a better explanation other than just showing the schematic and part number! Anyway, I am including the schematic link, if anyone out there can make sense of how to remove the boiler, when you open the link, scroll down to page 15 and see what can be done. Thanks http://www.athearn.com/ProdInfo/Files/Genesis_FEF_Northern_Manual.pdf
Looks simple enough, from what I see on that drawing, the round 'vent' on the steam turret cover (just in front of the cab) pulls out and you will see a screw in the top. The sand dome snaps off and you will see another screw. Remove those screws and lift the boiler up.
Sheldon
Let me light up that link for you.
The drawing is a vector file and can be enlarged in the browser (but on my obsolescent system if you get much above 250% the left-hand side of the drawing with the boiler and screws of interest 'disappears'). You will find screws 23 and 42 to be the items Sheldon mentioned.
I agree, looks like screw #23 and #42. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
OK Guys. I will remove screws #23 and #42 and see what happens.
Thanks!
Ok. I managed to remove screw #42, no problem.
To get to screw #23, I have to remove the #22 small part, according to schematic. It won't budge and almost looks like it is part of the boiler. For fear of scratching and damaging it, I will not attempt it any more.
Besides, before the boiler comes off, I have detach #39 BODY HANDRAIL (FEF-2) L 1 and #66 WIRE FOR LONG HANDRAIL R.
You think that maybe they would include things like.
How to remove a boiler without damaging.
For Example
Step 1. etc
Step 2. etc
But no, they want you to go to a local hobby shop and pay more to fix the loco than it costs and they automatically asume that we are are all electronically gifted, which I am not!!
End of the line for me and this piece of crap, overpriced Loco!
It goes on the shelf for display!
Lessons learned. I will NEVER buy private again.
Thanks to all for your input and help.
Hardly anyone give detailed instructions on how to take apart their locomotives. Diesels are MUCH MUCH simpelr than any steam loco. Buyimng second hand has nothing to do with this. Learning how to take things apart is very nearly a requirement for this hobby. If you are unsure, just take pictures every time you take out a screw so you can refer back to where it goes.
Just noticed in looking at the instructions that this thing has smoke - That I guarantee is why it will never read CVs. Also it appears that they actualled used LEDs, and there is a PCB inside which more than likely has the resistors needed for said LEDs, so sticking the power in the back isn't going to blow it up.
As mentioned - a couple of needles would work., Lacking needles, the probe tips from your meter should work - it's OK if the outside AND the second pins are touched, the outside are the track pickups, so applying power there won't hurt anything. The most likely place for anything to be broken off would be the cable from the loco, from someone yanking too hard on it. Since you get varying voltage out of the decoder, it has to be something like that, or the motor not making good contact inside the frame. It's worth it getting some straight pins or similar thin pins at a craft store or office supply store to test putting DC power to the motr to see if it turns.
It doesn't look that awful to open up - just start removing screws, and take pictures so you know what came off where. Use an egg carton or some sort of partitioned container to keep the screws straight, if they aren't all the same.
Hawks RuleTo get to screw #23, I have to remove the #22 small part, according to schematic. It won't budge and almost looks like it is part of the boiler.
http://www.rcgrabbag.com/athearn-genesis-up-fef-3/
Unfortunately he does not describe the specific procedure he used to remove the 'small part'. I suspect it may have involved two X-Acto #1s gently positioned with their edges on either side, then rotated to lift the part up between the knife-edges.
I'm tempted to note that you could easily restore the appearance of this area with nothing much more complicated than a little blackened wax in the turret screw recess... this is not an important detail location to which all eyes will gravitate if the stock small part is not present.
Note the reference to four (4) handrails that must have one end each disconnected to take the boiler off. I believe the cab is attached to the boiler from the 'inside' with screw #75; this may be a little precarious with the boiler assembly off, so be careful handling it and setting it down.