Yet another "what were they thinking" from someone who wants to be a DCC alternative

[Paul3]

Sheldon,
You know he didn't say "stupid" yet you put it in quotes as if he said it.  That's not right, man.

And he's correct in that there are some people think that DCC costs a fortune, yet a good starter system costs the same as one Athearn Genesis SDP40F without DCC or sound.

We've debated many times the cost of your DC system, and IIRC you got your relays and other electronics at incredibly low prices, correct?  Hardly a fair comparison.  And BTW, DCC can have Automatic Train Stop, so you're incorrect about that one.  It's not easy nor widespread, but then neither are detection and working signals that are needed to make it work in the first place.

Is DCC right for everyone?  No.  Is it right for you?  Absolutely not.  Is DCC the best solution for the majority of model railroaders?  Well, I think the market has spoken on that with a resounding, "Yes!" 

FWIW, on my old 25' x 50' layout, the full retail value of my DCC system was just under $1200, plus the cost of my DCC decoders at $20 each for 30 engines.  Of course, I did not pay that; it was at least 20% off that price.  So I was probably out of pocket just under $1500 for a Zephyr, a radio receiver, 3 radio throttles, 5 panel plugs and 30 decoders.  Better still, my club friends would bring their own throttles that worked with my system, so I could easily have 7 more engineers and it didn't cost me a dime.  Yes, $1500 sounds like a lot, but not when you consider that I also bought $1500 worth of turnouts and $1000 of flextrack.

Best part is that my entire layout worked with just two 14AWG wires under the 200' long double track mainline (with 22AWG feeders every 9 feet) and a 6-conductor flat telephone cable behind the fascia.  And that's it.

[tstage]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Why I am on this little rant?

Because your opening line, and to some degree, your whole post is condescending to those who have decided not to use DCC.

You are saying this product is aimed at the "stupid" people who have not gone DCC.

Sheldon,

Sometimes I think you go looking for threads with the intent of finding "something" to be offended at - real or imagined.  You are reading an entirely different book than I am in betamax's response.   Yes, get some sleep.

Tom

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

betamax

They are probably targeting those who believe that DCC systems cost a fortune and that they'll have to convert every locomotive they have immediately.

So they can sell something that is like DCC but isn't DCC. They just omit that their product is lightyears behind what a current DCC decoder is capable of, and incompatible with the wiring of the lighting in a typical locomotive today. 

Being proprietary, it is all good until the maker loses interest in supporting the product or the software.

 

Well first off, I'm not interested in anything that uses a smart phone as a throttle, so that leaves me out.

And plug/polarity thing is stupid beyond stupid.

But DCC is expensive and you do have to convert all your locomotives if you plan to actually run them. I don't have any shelf queens, I don't have 20 locos and a shelf layout......

I have 140 powered units, I'm about ready to start a new layout that will fill 1500 sq ft, support the operation of 8 trains at the same time, and stage 30 trains.

It takes most of those 140 locos to "protect the schedule".

I still run DC, I have no interest in sound, and no use for ditch lights, consisting, etc.

I have wireless radio throttles with pulse width modulated motor control. I have CTC, detection and signaling fully intergrated with my turnout controls and I use an Advanced Cab Control system that makes the operator experiance much the same as DCC, especially with a dispatcher on duty.

Why I am on this little rant?

Because your opening line, and to some degree, your whole post is condescending  to those who have decided not to use DCC.

You are saying this product is aimed at the "stupid" people who have not gone DCC.

How much are 10 DCC wireless throttles and 140 decoders? My system did not cost that much.

And I have CTC, signals, one button turnout route control from multiple locations, and, drum roll, something you don't have in DCC, Automatic Train Control - run a red signal, your train stops.

Those of us who think DCC is expensive are not gullible targets for products like this, we just have different goals in the hobby.

Personally, I think a GOOD direct radio system would be better than DCC, reducing the under layout infrastructure. But I don't know that I would invest in that either. Even if it was an open access platform like DCC.

I'll go back to sleep now.

Sheldon 

[wvg_ca]

the power to the LEDs is backwards ??

so they aren't NMRA  compatible ...

seems kinda useless??

[betamax]

They are probably targeting those who believe that DCC systems cost a fortune and that they'll have to convert every locomotive they have immediately.

So they can sell something that is like DCC but isn't DCC. They just omit that their product is lightyears behind what a current DCC decoder is capable of, and incompatible with the wiring of the lighting in a typical locomotive today. 

Being proprietary, it is all good until the maker loses interest in supporting the product or the software.

[rrinker]

In the September MR (yes, I already got and read mine - digital subscriber!), the review the LocoFi system. It's direct WiFi control, the decoders can take power from batteries, DC, or DCC, so you can use this alongside DCC. Sounds good so far. Right now, they only have an app for Android, not IOS, so I'm already out. In the article they mention the huge flaw - their lated decoder has an 8 pin socket matching the NMRA DCC 8 pin connector - which might sound great at first, making it ewasy to connect. But they blew it - on their decoder, the function wires are positive and the commin is negative - exactly opposite the DCC standard! So you can't just plug these in to a loco that has LED lights. How on earth can you make that msitake? Granted, MTH does the same, but they aren't trying to make a product that plugs in to existing sockets to easily convert a loco.

 Their web site reveals additional details. These decoders have sound., Well, as stated on their weeb site - 8 bit, 3 channel sound. Making it the equivalent of the Loksound 3.5 and the original 8 bit Digitrax sound decoders of the early 2000's. My feeling is, if you are going to market a product against the current defacto standard, you need to be at least as good as the current products, and if you're going to use a compatible connector - make it electrically compatible as well, or people are going to be confused when their lights don't work. Given that the MSRP of an equivalent 8 bit sound Digitrax decoder is half the price of one of these - it's gonna be an uphill battle.

                                       --Randy