richhotrain Dennis, I missed the first of your two most recent replies when I asked that question. Check back on my edit to see my further reply. I can't help but wonder if those two newly added track sections are really necessary now that you have corrected the PSX-ARSC wiring. My turnouts are controlled by Tortoises so I use the simpler PSX-ARs, not the PSX-ARSCs. But the PSX units should be fast enough to change the turnout routes instantly so that a short will not occur. At this point, you may decide to leave well enough alone, but it would be interesting to experiment by removing those two newly added track sections to see if it works without them. Rich
Dennis, I missed the first of your two most recent replies when I asked that question. Check back on my edit to see my further reply.
I can't help but wonder if those two newly added track sections are really necessary now that you have corrected the PSX-ARSC wiring. My turnouts are controlled by Tortoises so I use the simpler PSX-ARs, not the PSX-ARSCs. But the PSX units should be fast enough to change the turnout routes instantly so that a short will not occur.
At this point, you may decide to leave well enough alone, but it would be interesting to experiment by removing those two newly added track sections to see if it works without them.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Awesome! So it now works flawlessly? Rich
Awesome!
So it now works flawlessly?
Yes, flawlessly.
Dennis
Edit Note: Oops, I missed the first of your two most recent posts. Congratulations on your success. You did well to stick with it until the problem was solved. Yes, feel free to use the diagram as you see fit.
I am attaching a diagram that I drew up this morning showing the wiring connections in more detail.
richhotrain To make the area of your layout perform in the way that you described it, it seems that the wiring of the loop does not match the polarity of the straight through route of the turnout. Also, the wiring of the newly added track section between the loop and the divergent side of the turnout seem to be reversed from my diagram. If so, that is the problem. Reverse the loop wiring and the wiring of that upper track section between the loop and the divergent side of the turnout. Rich
To make the area of your layout perform in the way that you described it, it seems that the wiring of the loop does not match the polarity of the straight through route of the turnout. Also, the wiring of the newly added track section between the loop and the divergent side of the turnout seem to be reversed from my diagram. If so, that is the problem.
Reverse the loop wiring and the wiring of that upper track section between the loop and the divergent side of the turnout.
The big wiring mistake (which I missed at first because I was checking all the track wiring) was that I had the turnout connections to J9-3 and J9-1 back to front. Once I corected that I found my track wiring error quite easily. Thanks once again.
richhotrain This arrangement should work if wired correctly. When the loco proceeds on the straight through route of the turnout, the PSX-ARSC will be unaffected as the loco crosses the gaps into that new track section and remain unaffected as the loco crosses the gaps into the loop. That is because the turnout, the newly added track section and the loop are wired the same way (the polarities match). Only when the loco crosses the gaps to exit the loop will the PSX-ARSC be affected since the polarity of the loop will not match the polarity of the newly added track section between the loop and the divergent route of the turnout. The fact that the turnout is changing its route from straight through to divergent as the loco enters the loop indicates that the wiring is incorrect. In terms of wiring, the turnout should be wired with feeders that are connected to the main bus. The two newly added track sections should also be wired to the main bus, taking care to match the polarities shown in that upper diagram. The loop should be wired the same as the straight through route of the turnout, but the feeders to the loop should be connected to the output side of the PSX-ARSC. The input side of the PSX-ARSC should be connected to the main bus. In terms of gaps, all 8 of those gaps should be plastic rail connectors so that the loop and the two newly added track sections are isolated from each other and isolated from the turnout. Rich
This arrangement should work if wired correctly.
When the loco proceeds on the straight through route of the turnout, the PSX-ARSC will be unaffected as the loco crosses the gaps into that new track section and remain unaffected as the loco crosses the gaps into the loop. That is because the turnout, the newly added track section and the loop are wired the same way (the polarities match). Only when the loco crosses the gaps to exit the loop will the PSX-ARSC be affected since the polarity of the loop will not match the polarity of the newly added track section between the loop and the divergent route of the turnout.
The fact that the turnout is changing its route from straight through to divergent as the loco enters the loop indicates that the wiring is incorrect.
In terms of wiring, the turnout should be wired with feeders that are connected to the main bus. The two newly added track sections should also be wired to the main bus, taking care to match the polarities shown in that upper diagram. The loop should be wired the same as the straight through route of the turnout, but the feeders to the loop should be connected to the output side of the PSX-ARSC. The input side of the PSX-ARSC should be connected to the main bus.
In terms of gaps, all 8 of those gaps should be plastic rail connectors so that the loop and the two newly added track sections are isolated from each other and isolated from the turnout.
Denver richhotrain The first diagram below illustrates the straight through route into the reverse loop. Notice the red and blue color rails to indicate polarity. The polarity of the reverse loop matches the polarity of the straight through route. The circles indicate gaps. The diagram shows the addition of two powered track sections between the reverse loop and the turnout. The purpose of these two track sections is to provide a length of track to give the turnout time to change routes before the locomotive reaches the turnout. Note the polarity of these added track sections since that is critical to the operation without a short. As the locomotive exits the reverse loop, the PSX-ARSC detects a short created by mismatched polarities and reverses the polarities inside the loop. In the second diagram, the locomotive proceeds into that added section of track and the PSX-ARSC changes the route of the turnout. The next time that the locomotive approaches the reverse loop, the turnout is set to divergent so that the locomotive will enter the loop with the same polarity as the divergent route. As the locomotive exits the loop at the bottom of the diagram, the PSX-AR will detect a short created by mismatched polarities and reverse the polarities inside the loop and change the route of the turnout to straight through. See if that works. Rich Let me get this straight. In effect I divide the return loop into 3 separate isolated blocks and deliberately reverse the polarity of the two new blocks closest to the turnout. OK I will try. Dennis
richhotrain The first diagram below illustrates the straight through route into the reverse loop. Notice the red and blue color rails to indicate polarity. The polarity of the reverse loop matches the polarity of the straight through route. The circles indicate gaps. The diagram shows the addition of two powered track sections between the reverse loop and the turnout. The purpose of these two track sections is to provide a length of track to give the turnout time to change routes before the locomotive reaches the turnout. Note the polarity of these added track sections since that is critical to the operation without a short. As the locomotive exits the reverse loop, the PSX-ARSC detects a short created by mismatched polarities and reverses the polarities inside the loop. In the second diagram, the locomotive proceeds into that added section of track and the PSX-ARSC changes the route of the turnout. The next time that the locomotive approaches the reverse loop, the turnout is set to divergent so that the locomotive will enter the loop with the same polarity as the divergent route. As the locomotive exits the loop at the bottom of the diagram, the PSX-AR will detect a short created by mismatched polarities and reverse the polarities inside the loop and change the route of the turnout to straight through. See if that works. Rich
The first diagram below illustrates the straight through route into the reverse loop. Notice the red and blue color rails to indicate polarity. The polarity of the reverse loop matches the polarity of the straight through route. The circles indicate gaps.
The diagram shows the addition of two powered track sections between the reverse loop and the turnout. The purpose of these two track sections is to provide a length of track to give the turnout time to change routes before the locomotive reaches the turnout. Note the polarity of these added track sections since that is critical to the operation without a short.
As the locomotive exits the reverse loop, the PSX-ARSC detects a short created by mismatched polarities and reverses the polarities inside the loop.
In the second diagram, the locomotive proceeds into that added section of track and the PSX-ARSC changes the route of the turnout.
The next time that the locomotive approaches the reverse loop, the turnout is set to divergent so that the locomotive will enter the loop with the same polarity as the divergent route.
As the locomotive exits the loop at the bottom of the diagram, the PSX-AR will detect a short created by mismatched polarities and reverse the polarities inside the loop and change the route of the turnout to straight through.
See if that works.
No matter how it is wired the turnout always switches to Reverse as it leaves the lower block and enters the loop (not good if there cars behind the Loco) and when the Loco gets into the same block as the turnout the turnout switches back to Normal and the Loco freezes.
Any more ideas - it almost worked this time.
richhotrain bavrail Denver Still no joy. This is what happens: when the power is turned on the turnout changes to “Normal” (proving that pins 1 & 3 are correctly wired). The Loco proceeds around the loop but once it crosses the insulated gap it shorts and stays that way until you manually change the turnout. Once you do that it moves off ok after a few seconds. In reverse the same thing happens. Just once it did move the turnout after a number of seconds. Not happened since. Dennis I have a real dumb question. After the trains goes into the reversing loop is there power to the piece of track between the second set of gaps and the turnout ? Are you sure you are getting a short after the train gets to the second set of gaps ? Almost sounds to me as if there is no power on the other side of the second gap and when you move the turnout the track between the turnout and the second gap gets power. We use all peco insulfrog turnouts and have no problems. I suspect that Dennis may be out touch during the day so let me take the liberty to jump in here. One thing to recall is that on Dennis' layout the turnout that controls entry and exit to the reverse loop is a Peco Electrofrog, not an Insulfrog, so there is an issue with the inner frog rail opposite the active route having the same polarity as its adjacent stock rail. That may well be at the heart of the problem. From Dennis' description of his wiring, it seems that all of the rails are powered at all times. What I would do is to disconnect the two wires from the J9 port on the PSX-ARSC and then run the locomotive into the reverse loop by entering the loop via the straight through route. Then, stop the locomotive before it reaches the gaps at the exit point of the loop. Manually flip the turnout point rails and then restart the locomotive. If it makes it through the turnout without a glitch, then we know that the reverse loop is wired correctly and that the turnout is not at fault. If the locomotive does not proceed through the turnout, then it is a wiring problem. If the locomotive does make it through the turnout without a glitch using the previous procedure, then it is likely a gapping problem associated with the use of an Electrofrog turnout. There is a relatively easy fix for that problem. I would rule out the PSX-ARSC as the problem because of the testing procedures that Dennis has already undertaken. Rich
bavrail Denver Still no joy. This is what happens: when the power is turned on the turnout changes to “Normal” (proving that pins 1 & 3 are correctly wired). The Loco proceeds around the loop but once it crosses the insulated gap it shorts and stays that way until you manually change the turnout. Once you do that it moves off ok after a few seconds. In reverse the same thing happens. Just once it did move the turnout after a number of seconds. Not happened since. Dennis I have a real dumb question. After the trains goes into the reversing loop is there power to the piece of track between the second set of gaps and the turnout ? Are you sure you are getting a short after the train gets to the second set of gaps ? Almost sounds to me as if there is no power on the other side of the second gap and when you move the turnout the track between the turnout and the second gap gets power. We use all peco insulfrog turnouts and have no problems.
Denver Still no joy. This is what happens: when the power is turned on the turnout changes to “Normal” (proving that pins 1 & 3 are correctly wired). The Loco proceeds around the loop but once it crosses the insulated gap it shorts and stays that way until you manually change the turnout. Once you do that it moves off ok after a few seconds. In reverse the same thing happens. Just once it did move the turnout after a number of seconds. Not happened since.
Still no joy. This is what happens: when the power is turned on the turnout changes to “Normal” (proving that pins 1 & 3 are correctly wired). The Loco proceeds around the loop but once it crosses the insulated gap it shorts and stays that way until you manually change the turnout. Once you do that it moves off ok after a few seconds. In reverse the same thing happens. Just once it did move the turnout after a number of seconds. Not happened since.
I have a real dumb question. After the trains goes into the reversing loop is there power to the piece of track between the second set of gaps and the turnout ?
Are you sure you are getting a short after the train gets to the second set of gaps ?
Almost sounds to me as if there is no power on the other side of the second gap and when you move the turnout the track between the turnout and the second gap gets power.
We use all peco insulfrog turnouts and have no problems.
I suspect that Dennis may be out touch during the day so let me take the liberty to jump in here.
One thing to recall is that on Dennis' layout the turnout that controls entry and exit to the reverse loop is a Peco Electrofrog, not an Insulfrog, so there is an issue with the inner frog rail opposite the active route having the same polarity as its adjacent stock rail. That may well be at the heart of the problem. From Dennis' description of his wiring, it seems that all of the rails are powered at all times.
What I would do is to disconnect the two wires from the J9 port on the PSX-ARSC and then run the locomotive into the reverse loop by entering the loop via the straight through route. Then, stop the locomotive before it reaches the gaps at the exit point of the loop. Manually flip the turnout point rails and then restart the locomotive. If it makes it through the turnout without a glitch, then we know that the reverse loop is wired correctly and that the turnout is not at fault. If the locomotive does not proceed through the turnout, then it is a wiring problem.
If the locomotive does make it through the turnout without a glitch using the previous procedure, then it is likely a gapping problem associated with the use of an Electrofrog turnout. There is a relatively easy fix for that problem.
I would rule out the PSX-ARSC as the problem because of the testing procedures that Dennis has already undertaken.
Hi Rich: you are right, I am in Australia, which is why I generally write in your mornings. It is 8:30am here right now and i have not been out to the railway [in my garage] this morning. However I have already tested the turnout manually as you suggest and there is no problem - the Loco sails through.
What is your "relatively easy fix"?? Given that bavrail has no problems using an insulfrog turnout I am convinced that it is a problem with the frogs rails. I guess I could just buy an insulfrog turnout.
I am going to test the turnout with a frog juicer this afternoon. Will let you know how I get on.
WS
You mention that when you let the PSX-AR control the reversing loop it does very well. So, I assume that you have disconnected the two J9 wires on the PSX-AR and then the operation of the reverse loop works just fine - - - from either direction.
richhotrain Dennis, you do not need to mess with the turnout to gap the inner frog rails. Just use plastic rail joiners on those two inner rails as opposed to metal rail joiners. Rich
Dennis, you do not need to mess with the turnout to gap the inner frog rails. Just use plastic rail joiners on those two inner rails as opposed to metal rail joiners.
Rich, I misunderstood. Of course I have insulated the two inner frog rails (you have no choice with DCC but to do that with every turnout, or the trains will not run). I have also insulated the reverse loop from the turnout at both ends. I still can only conclude that it is a N scale problem as other people are not having my issues. I have also swapped out the PSX-ARSC so that is not at fault.
richhotrain rrinker If you use a Frog Juicer to power the frogs, and the gaps on the frog rails are also the gaps that isolate the reverse loop powered byt he PSX-AR, you now have back to back reverse loops (the Frog Juicer is effectively an autoreverser for the frog polarity and automatically matches the frog polarity to the route the train is taking through the turnout, vs using switch machine contacts which could be wired backwards, meanining instant short until you get the feeders right). Both products use fast acting electronic detection and switching for the short circuit condition, and this is a possible source of trouble. Since you are using a Peco Electrofrog, the frog is already powered so there is no need for a Frog Juicer. But, recall, the Peco Electrofrog is a power routing turnout. Depending upon the route selected, both rails beyond the frog will be powered with the same polarity. So, the two inner frog rails need to gapped. These same gaps can be used to isolate the reverse loop. Rich
rrinker If you use a Frog Juicer to power the frogs, and the gaps on the frog rails are also the gaps that isolate the reverse loop powered byt he PSX-AR, you now have back to back reverse loops (the Frog Juicer is effectively an autoreverser for the frog polarity and automatically matches the frog polarity to the route the train is taking through the turnout, vs using switch machine contacts which could be wired backwards, meanining instant short until you get the feeders right). Both products use fast acting electronic detection and switching for the short circuit condition, and this is a possible source of trouble.
If you use a Frog Juicer to power the frogs, and the gaps on the frog rails are also the gaps that isolate the reverse loop powered byt he PSX-AR, you now have back to back reverse loops (the Frog Juicer is effectively an autoreverser for the frog polarity and automatically matches the frog polarity to the route the train is taking through the turnout, vs using switch machine contacts which could be wired backwards, meanining instant short until you get the feeders right). Both products use fast acting electronic detection and switching for the short circuit condition, and this is a possible source of trouble.
Since you are using a Peco Electrofrog, the frog is already powered so there is no need for a Frog Juicer. But, recall, the Peco Electrofrog is a power routing turnout. Depending upon the route selected, both rails beyond the frog will be powered with the same polarity. So, the two inner frog rails need to gapped. These same gaps can be used to isolate the reverse loop.
Rich: By "So, the two inner frog rails need to gapped" do you mean modifying the turnout to make it "DCC friendly" as per Allan Gartner. If so I am afraid that that is not an option in N scale. Our turnouts are too small and I for one do not have the skills to attempt such a modification. And if you use a Tam Valley Frog Juicer the modification is not required. However as pointed out a Frog Juicer is unlikely to work with the PSX-AR as it will be in conflict.
On the surface my problem does look like a wiring issue. However I have (1) removed all but one of the feeder wires (there was 3) to the reversing loop thereby eliminating any wiring issues there; (2) replaced the original turnout and the Peco motor with a new set (after checking with my CDU that the point motor worked) and (3) I have moved the insulating gaps back a little bit to give the Turnout plenty of time to change after the Loco crosses the gap.
As far as I can tell the polarity from the main into the reversing loop on normal is the same and that is not an issue. And after all there are only 4 wires involved - 2 to the turnout and 2 to the track.
So my only conclusion is that it is an N scale issue as the turnout needs the HO "DCC friendly" modification . . .
Is there anyone out there using a PSX-ARSC with unmodified N scale turnouts?
I really do want to thank everybody who has responded to this tread, especially Rich, Randy and bavrail. I have learnt a lot but for now I am going to give in and use a pushbutton to control the turnout and let the PSX-AR control the reversing loop, which it does very well.
Randy, I am assuming that the solid state PSX-AR will perform both functions simultaneously. But, let's assume that there is a delay from one function to another. In that case, two sets of gaps would be required at either end of the reverse loop. The track between each set of gaps would maintain a fixed polarity. If that proves to be the OP's problem, we can provide a wiring and gapping solution for him. I drew one up that seems to work, at least on paper.
What I am implying is that the gaps required for the turnout (even if no reverse loop is involved) shouldn't be the ones isolating the reverse loop if the PSX is controlling the turnout. What I think would happen is the loco crosses the gaps, the PSX detects the short and flips the loop polarity, clearing the short. Then it throws the turnout, changing the polarity of the diverging frog rails. Which causes a short again, so the PSX reverse the loop polarity, and then throws the turnout.......
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Denver Rich: I am using Peco Electofrogs. Bavrail: I have an NCE 5amp ProCab Radio system. The layout is the same as the diagram in the manual - a simple reverse loop with one turnout. Shortly after my last post I had a win of sorts in that when the Loco approached the turnout the switch motor moved in the WRONG direction. At which point I decided to contact Tony's Train Exchange for support. Overnight I received a reply from Larry Maier, their Technical Support Specialist (and the designer of the PSX-AR series) who wrote: "The PSX-ARSC is correctly installed when the reverse loop gaps in the active point route are in phase. For example, if the engine path through the switch is in the Clear (straight) direction, when it gets to the reverse loop gaps, the normal and the reverse section track should be in phase. I suggest you align the switch clear (using the PSX-AR switch address 2044), and then check track polarity all the way into the reverse loop. Do the same for the Throw direction. I suspect that you have a wiring error. The second configuration (Pin 1 of J9 to the "Normal" route and Pin 3 to the Reverse) should work correctly. The fact that the engine stalls indicates there is a short that the PSX can't fix by reversing. The hint is that it works OK if you move the switch points. Any power routing you are doing to the switch should be normal power, and your reverse loop insulators should be at least your longest engine away from any track in the switch that changes polarity when you move the points." This is a helpful response (at least I now know which pins go to which route) and the manual also makes reference to three (3) Accessory Addresses and the following paragraph: "(3) The Third address (2044 default) controls the output to the stall motor or dual coil switch machine outputs by using a normal DCC accessory commands for a switch, throw(off) or clear(on) command." However I have no idea what either Larry or the manual are trying to tell me to do with switch address 2044. There is very little literature (I have all five of MR’s DCC books) on how and what to do with accessory decoders and until I received Larry’s email I did not realise that the PSX-AR was even an accessory decoder. Is 2044 like a Loco address? How do you access it? The NCE ProCab system wants CV values. How do I know what they are? As far as the wiring goes I have tried every permutation I can think of. I have a second PSX-ARSC and I plan to swap that one over and see if it makes a difference. Dennis
Rich: I am using Peco Electofrogs. Bavrail: I have an NCE 5amp ProCab Radio system. The layout is the same as the diagram in the manual - a simple reverse loop with one turnout.
Shortly after my last post I had a win of sorts in that when the Loco approached the turnout the switch motor moved in the WRONG direction. At which point I decided to contact Tony's Train Exchange for support.
Overnight I received a reply from Larry Maier, their Technical Support Specialist (and the designer of the PSX-AR series) who wrote:
"The PSX-ARSC is correctly installed when the reverse loop gaps in the active point route are in phase. For example, if the engine path through the switch is in the Clear (straight) direction, when it gets to the reverse loop gaps, the normal and the reverse section track should be in phase. I suggest you align the switch clear (using the PSX-AR switch address 2044), and then check track polarity all the way into the reverse loop. Do the same for the Throw direction. I suspect that you have a wiring error. The second configuration (Pin 1 of J9 to the "Normal" route and Pin 3 to the Reverse) should work correctly. The fact that the engine stalls indicates there is a short that the PSX can't fix by reversing. The hint is that it works OK if you move the switch points. Any power routing you are doing to the switch should be normal power, and your reverse loop insulators should be at least your longest engine away from any track in the switch that changes polarity when you move the points." This is a helpful response (at least I now know which pins go to which route) and the manual also makes reference to three (3) Accessory Addresses and the following paragraph:
"(3) The Third address (2044 default) controls the output to the stall motor or dual coil switch machine outputs by using a normal DCC accessory commands for a switch, throw(off) or clear(on) command."
However I have no idea what either Larry or the manual are trying to tell me to do with switch address 2044. There is very little literature (I have all five of MR’s DCC books) on how and what to do with accessory decoders and until I received Larry’s email I did not realise that the PSX-AR was even an accessory decoder. Is 2044 like a Loco address? How do you access it? The NCE ProCab system wants CV values. How do I know what they are? As far as the wiring goes I have tried every permutation I can think of.
I have a second PSX-ARSC and I plan to swap that one over and see if it makes a difference.
You should be able to simultaneously use the PSX-AR to reverse polarities inside the reverse loop and alternate the route of the point rails so that the train will not derail as it exits the loop. The key is to gap the reverse section properly so that it is fully isolated from the rest of the layout and to wire the reverse section properly. Larry Meier is suggesting that the reverse loop be wired to match the polarities of the Electrofrog in the straight through position.
Denver I then installed the PSX-ARSC on the other return loop as a reversing unit it worked 100% ok. But then I wired it to the Peco switch motor and at first it just did not work................ When the front wheels of the Loco goes over the gap - and the turnout is against that track - a hard short occurs and remains until the turnout is manually changed. Then the reversing circuit kicks in and the Loco continues on its way. I have tested the Loco entering the Reverse Loop on both tracks and the same thing happens, regardless of whether the turnout was "normal" or not when the Loco entered the Return Loop.
I then installed the PSX-ARSC on the other return loop as a reversing unit it worked 100% ok. But then I wired it to the Peco switch motor and at first it just did not work................ When the front wheels of the Loco goes over the gap - and the turnout is against that track - a hard short occurs and remains until the turnout is manually changed. Then the reversing circuit kicks in and the Loco continues on its way. I have tested the Loco entering the Reverse Loop on both tracks and the same thing happens, regardless of whether the turnout was "normal" or not when the Loco entered the Return Loop.
Where are your gaps, and where are the power feeds for the reverse section, and for the area outside the reverse section? With Electrofrogs, you cna have no power applied to the rails that join together at the point of the frog (the two inside rails on the diverging end). Reverse loop or not, these rails (at least) need gaps. Those gaps can be right at the turnout, with insulated joiners or cut rails, or they can be several inches (or even feet) beyond the turnout - however the only power to feed those diverging rails comes from whatever you power the frog with. If you have robust frog power, such as with switch machine contacts or a Frog Juicer, it's fine for the gaps to be set way from the turnout.
Now here's apossible interesting problem. If you use a Frog Juicer to power the frogs, and the gaps on the frog rails are also the gaps that isolate the reverse loop powered byt he PSX-AR, you now have back to back reverse loops (the Frog Juicer is effectively an autoreverser for the frog polarity and automatically matches the frog polarity to the route the train is taking through the turnout, vs using switch machine contacts which could be wired backwards, meanining instant short until you get the feeders right). Both products use fast acting electronic detection and switching for the short circuit condition, and this is a possible source of trouble.
Denver
On your controller press the SEL ACCY key.
Enter 2044 for the address.
Press ENTER
You should see something like this:
ACC: 2044 02:00PM
1=N(ON) 2=R(OFF)
Press 1 and the turnout should align for the straight route.
Press 2 and the turnout should throw for the diverging route.
If the turnout does not get set correctly reverse the connections (J9-1 and J9-3).
Also when the PSX-ARSC powers up it will always set the turnout to the N (or normal route) and the loop will be the same polarity as the mainline.
Our connections are J9-2 to both contacts on one side of the peco motor. J9-2 and J9-4 are connected internally. You only need one common wire.
J9-1 to one contact on the other side and J9-3 to the other contact.
The way ours operate is:
When the PSX-AR powers up the turnout is set to straight and the reverser is in normal state. (Mainline and loop are same polarity). As the train comes in it goes through the turnout and across the first gap. Since mainline and loop are same polarity nothing happens.
As the train hits the second set of gaps to exit the loop a short is detected. The turnout throws and polarity in the loop is reversed. It now matches the mainline and the train can exit. Led on PSX should be blinking.
When the train comes back it will take the diverging route, polarity of mainline and loop matches so nothing happens. As train gets to second set of gaps it again detects the short, throws the turnout and goes back to normal state. Led on PSX should go out.
We are having a show for the next four days and our PSX's will get a good workout.
richhotrain bavrail Which DCC system are you using ? Could you include a diagram of how you are using the PSX-ARSC's. We are using two of them with Peco turnouts and have no problems. It did take a few tries to figure out how they worked. Also, are the Peco turnouts Electofrogs or Insulfrogs? Rich
bavrail Which DCC system are you using ? Could you include a diagram of how you are using the PSX-ARSC's. We are using two of them with Peco turnouts and have no problems. It did take a few tries to figure out how they worked.
Which DCC system are you using ?
Could you include a diagram of how you are using the PSX-ARSC's.
We are using two of them with Peco turnouts and have no problems. It did take a few tries to figure out how they worked.
Also, are the Peco turnouts Electofrogs or Insulfrogs?
richhotrain Dennis, the best of luck. Keep us posted. Rich
Dennis, the best of luck. Keep us posted.
I was hoping to post a success story but I am afraid the end game - of moving the Peco switch motor from side to side - has been a failure. First I decided to take everyone’s advice and use a second device for the second reverse loop. As it does not need to move a Peco switch motor I was able to use two of the outputs on a Tam Valley Hex Frog Juicer. It worked 100% ok and works out at only $26 per reversing unit.
I then installed the PSX-ARSC on the other return loop as a reversing unit it worked 100% ok. But then I wired it to the Peco switch motor and at first it just did not work. So I tested the motor directly with a CDU unit and it fired with no problems. Then I tried switching wires (just in case pin 1 was in fact pin 4). But no that did not help, but I did verify that pins 2 & 4 are linked and so go to the common side of the motor. I swapped over the wires from pins 1 & 3 but that made no difference so I then wondered if it was the distance of the gaps from the turnout. One set of gaps was right up at the frogs and the other was about 9" away. So I rewired so that they were both about 6" away from the turnout. No change.
I am only running a single locomotive to do the test although the return loop itself is about 184" and will hold about 46 N Scale 40' boxcars. When the front wheels of the Loco goes over the gap - and the turnout is against that track - a hard short occurs and remains until the turnout is manually changed. Then the reversing circuit kicks in the Loco continues on its way. I have tested the Loco entering the Reverse Loop on both tracks and the same thing happens, regardless of whether the turnout was "normal" or not when the Loco entered the Return Loop.
The PSX-ARSC however does appear to be correctly wired because from time to time the Peco switch motor will flip, but not when a train approaches it. I think it happens sometimes when the Loco moves into the reversing section and away from the turnout. That would be a disaster if it was pulling a train!
I have to say that the DCC Specialties documentation leaves a lot to be desired. The manual is great for explaining what a wonderful product it is and what features it has but does tell you how to install the device or give you any troubleshooting suggestions if things do not work. And they try to make one manual work for every combination that the device is sold for. I suspect most people use the device with a Tortoise switch motor and they may not have done a lot of testing with Peco snap coil motors. Their diagrams are also not clear and the size of the print is too small.
I am interested in buying 3 Jack Wabbit Quad devices to automate 12 Peco Turnouts on my 7 stagging tracks. However on YouTube there is just one video of the Jack Wabbit and the guy has bought the Peco snap coil version. However apparently the manual does not explain how to wire Peco switch motors at all! Consequently he has had to install relays to make them work. Weird. However if I cannot make a single Peco switch machine work with the PSX-ARSC I am certainly not going to be buying any Jack Wabbits.
Clearly I am doing something wrong but I have run out of ideas and feel that I have tested everything. Any ideas????