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Digitrax DZ123 in Kato Mikado Keeps Stopping Randomly

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  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 11:45 AM

I just did that, and the wheel rolled smoothly.

I'm beginning to think it's a pickup issue. I flipped over the loco, applied power to it, and put it on speed step 6. It started smoothly, quietly, and without issue. No whir-whir-whir or anything like that. Smooth like a Kato should be. I checked the wobbliness of the wheels, and none that would make it bind or slow down.

I flip it over, put it on the track, which I just cleaned, and it's uneven in how the motor whirs, ie. a little jerky. I checked continuity using a multimeter of each of the driver wheels on the same side to other driver wheels on the same side (i.e. left first driver to left fourth driver), and no matter how I touched the probes ot the wheels, there was no continuity like there should be. Tried other drivers too, and once again, no continuity.

Just for giggles, I took out the first wheel and the side rod, i.e the rod that connects the first wheel with the third. It glides around the oval much better than it did before, but still not to my satisfaction. It still slows down and is a bit jerky, and the light flickers ever so slightly, and I mean ever so slightly. So since I just cleaned the track, to me this is a pickup issue.

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:53 PM

I bit the bullet and bought the set of driver wheels from Kato. Hopefully it comes with the foward crank pins because I dropped one on my carpet.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:34 PM

 WHat about if you hold it upright but not sitting on the track? DOes it run as smoothly as it does holdign it upside down? That sort of thing can be an issue with the gear alignment, if it gets cranky when upright but no weight on it. If it onl does it when sitting on the track, then it could be somethign shifting when under load causing a bind - perhaps a bushing is missing on one of the axles, or the motor is loose.

             --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 693 posts
Posted by woodone on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:23 PM

Nope, the drivers don't come with the crank pins. Better get on line and get a spare or two.

These things are small, if you ever drop one it will be real hard to find.

I do repair work and keep spare pins just in case. I have replaced the old style drivers with the revised sets and have not lost one yet, but you never know. 

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:35 AM

If I take the engine off the track, upright, it runs fine. Runs smoothly and quietly.

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:39 AM

Wait, I spent $20 on a new set of driver wheels and only got the wheels, not the connecting rods, crank pins, or anything else? How the heck does one put this in quarter if the OLD set was out of quarter?!

If I get this new driver wheel set and replace it, and it's not GLASS SMOOTH around my layout, I'm returning it and swearing off Kato steam engines forever. They're already on my ****list.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 693 posts
Posted by woodone on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:50 PM

Did you not look at the parts you ordered. The Kato site shows what you get.

I don't want to seem negative here, but you are swearing off on a locomotive that is one of the best running units I have ever ran into.

I have 4 and they run like a smooth Swiss watch.

I have worked on over 60 of these guys doing DCC conversions and have not run into too many problems with them over the years.

You want to box it up and send it to me? If I can't make it run well, I will send it back and it will not cost you but the shipping.

I will PM my contact information if you are interested..   

.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:03 PM

woodone

You want to box it up and send it to me? If I can't make it run well, I will send it back and it will not cost you but the shipping.

wow, woodone, u da man.

What about it, gatrhumpy?

What say you?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:25 PM

Gatrhumpy,

One thing I forgot to mention,,,must be a old age thing,,,a light went on in my head,,when you mentioned,that,it runs good in your hands..Get a piece of glass pane,or mirror and place the engine on it and check to see if all the drivers are touching the glass,,lift the front slightly and rear and check for vertical movement of the drivers...It's a possibility,that you have a axle bearing issue,,out of round,or worn,,causing a bind,when sitting on the rails with weight on them....

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:42 AM

That was one of the parts that you could not click to see what you're getting.

Here is the site:

http://search.cartserver.com/search/search.cgi?cartid=s-1078&keywords=N282HVYREV&maxhits=100&bool=AND

Part 932031.

I'm going to see what the driver wheels will do when they arrive. It's currently for sale on eBay, so if it doesn't sell, I'll let you know and I will take you up on the offer if I can't get it to run right. Thanks for the offer man!

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 693 posts
Posted by woodone on Thursday, July 25, 2013 3:04 PM

Sorry about that. They used to show the drivers. I think? I have ordered several of these and maybe I am mistaken has I know what I have received.

 You wonder what goes on sometimes. They will show you a picture of a part that you can't order because it is no longer being made, but no photos of some thing you can buy. Go figure? 

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:37 PM

Yeah, it's kind of annoying. Oh well. I hope this fixes the problem. If it doesn't, I'll send it to you and the drivers, or I might actually send the drivers back. If the drivers work, I'll hold onto the engine. I certainly can't sell it.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 693 posts
Posted by woodone on Friday, July 26, 2013 12:31 PM

When you install the drivers don't install the side drive rods. Leave them off. This way there is no chance of the side rods and drivers to cause any binding. Just a thought. 

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:43 PM

I did that with the current set of driver wheels and it runs fine upside down.

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 7:08 AM

I got the new set of driver wheels. I installed all four, but there was a clicking sound on one of them that was bugging me. So I took off the second and fourth set, and the clicking was still there. Plus, the third set of driver wheels was slightly binding at very slow speed. So I took off the third set and replaced it with the original third set, and it ran better, but not up to my OCD perfect standards.

I then checked the width of the wheels on the engine and tender, and the third wheel on the tender was a tenth of a MM too tight. So I adjusted that, and the thing runs like a swiss watch now.

I have learned my lesson: if a set of driver wheels need to be adjusted, just get a new set that has already been balanced and adjusted for me and don't try to adjust it myself. I've ruined probably close to $350 worth of steam engines by checking the clearances of the driver wheels and adjusting them myself, or I'll use a tool to do it.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 693 posts
Posted by woodone on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:53 AM

All I can say is,  HIP HIP HURRAY!!

Glad to hear you got it running well.

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 5:19 AM

Yeah, thanks for your help woodone. Means a lot to me.

Now I'm thinking about a sound decoder.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 5:35 AM

gatrhumpy

I have learned my lesson: if a set of driver wheels need to be adjusted, just get a new set that has already been balanced and adjusted for me and don't try to adjust it myself. I've ruined probably close to $350 worth of steam engines by checking the clearances of the driver wheels and adjusting them myself, or I'll use a tool to do it.

So be it, but in the greater scheme of things, it was money well spent because it gave you an opportunity to build up a wealth of knowledge that you can use going forward.  Congrats.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, August 1, 2013 7:33 AM

This Kato has restored my faith in Kato a little more. With the traction tires, this thing pulls very well, although not as well as my Model Power 4-6-2 Pacific. Now I have to decide if I want to run wires to the tender for a sound decoder.

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Thursday, August 1, 2013 8:24 AM

Does that mean,,you won't be trying to sell it now??LOL...

Glad you got it working..

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 693 posts
Posted by woodone on Thursday, August 1, 2013 9:35 AM

If you go to a sound unit you can put back the weight that you removed to install the non- sound decoder and it might help a bit in the pulling department. I have several of these units and they pull about 17 cars up a 1.5 % grade through a 15 inch radius 90 degree curve. For the wires I suggest you use a super flexible wire from North West Short Line. It is called 29 51 I believe. You will need five wires. Two for the motor and two for the pickup and one more for the H/L. There is no need to run the blue wire from the decoder to the H/L for power, you can power if from the light board in the boiler. This is a tight fit if you use the SoundTraxx Tsunami decoder. To get capacitors to fit I use two surface mount 20 volt 100uF caps in place of the original cap that comes with the decoder. Wire them in parallel, which will give you 200uF.A 14X25 MM speaker will fit under the coal load.

 

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 913 posts
Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, August 1, 2013 11:16 AM

After three separate times of trying to sell it, I will not be selling it now. I'll be keeping it and trying to stuff a sound decoder in the tender.

Digikey does not have SM 100uF 20V capacitors, unless I missed something. They have 16V, which would work for my DCC system, but not MRC's DCC system which is 16.2V.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 693 posts
Posted by woodone on Thursday, August 1, 2013 10:03 PM

send you a PM as to where to get a few 20 volt ones.

Digikey should have the 20 Volt ones too. Sometimes they are hard to find in the catalog. 

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