I installed a Digitrax DZ123 DCC decoder in my Kato Mikado in the boiler. I followed all the instructions and isolated all the leads. I even followed through with checking resistance/continuity between wires.
I have been trying to run it to get it loosened up. The problem is that it keeps randomly stopping on my layout and my work loop with N scale Atlas Truetrack. Just before I ran the Mikado each time, I cleaned the track.
I have done the following things:
-Cleaned the track, so dirty track is not the problem
-Checked continuity/resistance of wires on DCC decoder
-Checked continuity of Atlas Truetrack on my work desk
-I added weight to the front of the locomotive to get more weight on the front of the drivers.
The random stopping happens on both curves and straight track. Something is wrong, otherwise it would not keep stopping. I'm not sure if it's me or the Digitrax decoder. I have NEVER had good luck with Digitrax. I hope it's not the decoder and it's something that I'm overlooking.
Any thoughts?
What DCC system are you using? Does the loco restart itself shortly after stopping or do you have to give it a push or do something with the throttle to get it moving again? Does the headlight (if equipped) go out when the loco stops or does it stay lit?
Reset the decoder just for the fun of it.
You may have an overloaded decoder.
I'd jumper from track power to the decoder input connections and try that with the wheels turning in the air. Then you would know if you have a power pickup problem.
Lee
gatrhumpyI have been trying to run it to get it loosened up.
How did it run before you put the decoder in it?? Was it brand new out of the box,never run??
Cheers,
Frank
gatrhumpy I have done the following things: -Cleaned the track, so dirty track is not the problem -Checked continuity/resistance of wires on DCC decoder -Checked continuity of Atlas Truetrack on my work desk -I added weight to the front of the locomotive to get more weight on the front of the drivers. Any thoughts?
Clean the wheels? or where power is picked up from the track?
Inspired by Addiction
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The loco light goes out. Most times it starts going again on it's own (about 80% of the time). The other 20% I have to help it. Every time though the light goes out and it just stops. Do I need a capacitor across the motor terminals?
I'm using the NCE PowerCab system.
I bought it from National N scale train show in Milwaukee, WI. I believe it was brand new. I ran it at one of the club layouts there and it ran fine.
I cleaned the wheels with both alcohol swabs and the bright boy. I took all the blackened neolube (or whatever was on the wheel treads) off the wheel treads, and they're shiny and clean.
That's a good idea. I just hate to do that with a Kato Mikado. I might have to.
I checked the drawbar and there are no obvious kinds, bends, or problems. I tried swiveling it and it seemed OK.
I just checked the resistance between the loco and the tender, and it varies from 30 Ohms to 150 Ohms.
Put another loco on the layout, idling with its headlight on. Watch that headlight as you run the problem engine. If it stays on, then you're losing power on the problem engine. If it blinks off, you are getting a momentary short. My guess is a loose wire inside the engine.
You did mention running it to get it loosened up. If the engine is really gummy, that could be your problem. The DZ123 is a small decoder and can't handle much of an overload. Have you cleaned and re-lubricated the gears? A never-run engine could have been in the box for years.
Stick with the alcohol swabs on the wheels, by the way. Don't use a Bright Boy. It's abrasive, and will eventually pit the smooth wheel surfaces.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I run it on an inside loop of my small layout. The other loco is a diesel, and it has no problems. I reset the decoder, and it only stopped once in about five minutes of running so far.
Maybe I'll take apart the.........
You know what? It's the loose weight inside the boiler that I cut off (the part you have to remove to install the decoder inside the boiler), that even though I insulated, apparently I didn't insulate it enough. I'll put Kapton on it and see if that fixes the problem.
Look at your locomotive's drivers. The early runs of the Kato Mike's had poor driver contacts from the tread to the axles.
If this is a early run unit you will find that the drivers have two very small tabs that run from the axle to the metal treads. Lots of times this tab does not make good electrical contact and therefor the locomotive does not pick up power. Kato has driver replacements that have improved power pick up.
Replace them and you will improve the operation. Replace them if your unit has the old style drivers.
For some reason they ran good on DC but with a DCC decoder the pickup problem shows up.
I checked the weight, and that's what it was. Even though I insulated the bottom of the removed metal weight when I added it back into the boiler, it was still shorting. So I wrapped the entire metal weight and secured it with a dab of hot glue. BAM! No more stopping.
The problem that I'm having now is that the front driver wheels are slightly out of round because I had to take them out to make sure the wheels were in gauge (proper distance apart from eachother). Having to take out the crank pins every time to try to adjust the wheels to make sure they're round and not wobbly is a royal pain in the butt.
The Model Power 2-8-2 that I have is heavier, runs quieter, and is very smooth. It's better than my Mikado from Kato.
WOW, having to adjust the front driver more than once, sounds like someone is using a heavy hand in adjusting the gauge of the drivers. Get a new set of drivers! Once you start to move the wheels on it axle is will become more prone to movement each time you adjust it. Really can't see how you would get the drivers out of round by adjusting the gauge of the driver.
It was actually easy to get them out-of-round. Once you take out the drivers, you have to twist them slightly to pull them apart to get them in gauge.
The Model Power Mikado my friend has did not have this problem. I almost want to trade mine for his. I would add a Bachmann medium tender to it (the Model Power Mikado) and add a Tsunami decoder to it.
You should not get the drivers out of round by adjusting the gauge by twisting them.
The drivers are pressed onto the axle and should turn in an concentric rotation.
Sure you don't have a bent axle?
Like I said earlier once you have twisted the driver on its axle it becomes very easy to move. The more you move it, the looser it becomes.
No because when I take the driver out of the wheel bearing, it rolls. I can see the axle, and it's smooth relative to the transverse motion of the wheel. What is NOT smooth is when looking at the wheel from the top down, it has a slight wobble to it in the horizontal plane. I have tried correcting this, but cannot.
It's very frustrating, because A Kato Mikado should run like a swiss watch. However, I get this wrrrrr, WRRRR, wrrrr, WRRRR sound, a slight wobble on two of the four driver wheels, and it slows down noticeably on curves. The bearing blocks that support the axles are also wobbling. I tried putting a small amount of Scotch tape on the bearing blocks, but that did not help the wrr-WRR-wrr-WRR-wrr-WRR sound nor the slowdown of the loco around curves.
Either the tip of the axle is bent or the driver center whole or axle end is egged shaped. What are you using to set the gage? A narrower wheel gage would help your problem.
I am sending you a PM.
I have several old style front drivers. I will send you one and you can see it that cures your problem.
PM on its way.
Thanks but I'm trying to sell this thing. However, one other problem is that this thing slows down NOTICEABLY on ANY curve, from 9 3/4" radius curves to 11" curves. Not sure what that's all about. When I first got it it ran around my inner loop of my layout just fine, which had 9 3/4" radius curves. Now it will run, but at like speed step 14 around curves. Any slower and it stalls around curves.
This is my second Kato, and I'm done screwing around with these things. I have not had any luck with Kato steam engines. This will be my last.
I'm sticking with Model Power from now on.
I can't even sell this thing on eBay! I've tried twice, at $120 and then at $110, and I can't sell this thing. Ugh. I've been tinkering with it to try to stop it from slowing around curves, and no luck. The wheels are all perfectly in gauge, the track is clean, I've checked the resistance between track sections to ensure electrical conductivity, and have cleaned the wheels. It's still jerky, even on straight sections, and I cannot for the life of me explain why.
You're not getting the drivers out of round by twisting them on the axles, you're getting them out of quarter, which can cause extreme binding. It used to be on N scale steam locos that the rods were mostly for show, and the drivers were all gear coupled together. Even so, if driver that is connected to the rods has its gear just a tooth or two off from the other driver that has a crank pin to the rods, it WILL bind. You have to be very careful in taking apart locos like this to get all the gears back in the right position. And twisting a wheel on the axle will do the same thing. This is true of ANY steam loco - technically if the wheels could twist on the axles of a full size stema loco it would cause the same problem. Older cheap N scale locos had more of an oval hole for the crank pin, so as to handle plenty of slop in the drive train, and the quartering wan't critical at all. Finer built models won;t have those sloppy holes to cover for other misadjustment. Out of quarter drivers, or misaligned driver sets, will cause random binds both on straights and curves.
If all the drivers on one side aren;t in the same position, at least the ones that are physcially connected to the rods, they will try to expand and compress the rods as the distance between the connections varies - causing binding and stalling. Run the loco slowly while closely observing the rods and you should see the trouble. Or remove the motor and worm and turn the drivers with your finger tips, you will feel the binding.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
What Randy is saying is true. I never gave a thought about the driver being out of quarter. The way the Kato Mikado is built is that the front set of drivers is driven by side rods from the third driver. There is no gear on the front driver. So if you twisted the front driver to make it gauge you have got it out of quarter from one side to the other. There is not very much play or slop in the way the rods are connected to the drivers pins.
gatrhumpy I can't even sell this thing on eBay! I've tried twice, at $120 and then at $110, and I can't sell this thing. Ugh. I've been tinkering with it to try to stop it from slowing around curves, and no luck. The wheels are all perfectly in gauge, the track is clean, I've checked the resistance between track sections to ensure electrical conductivity, and have cleaned the wheels. It's still jerky, even on straight sections, and I cannot for the life of me explain why. You are asking too much for a locomotive that does not run well. And I would guess that you are telling your bidders the problems the unit has? I saw a couple of Kato Mikes on e-bay for less than $100 and all said they ran well.
You are asking too much for a locomotive that does not run well. And I would guess that you are telling your bidders the problems the unit has? I saw a couple of Kato Mikes on e-bay for less than $100 and all said they ran well.
That's the funny thing. I'm looking at this thing, and the drivers all seem to be in quarter. When the left side counterweights is at top dead center, the right side is 90 degrees off from that (on the side). This thing used to make a whir-whir-whir-whir sound, but I adjusted the driver slightly to where it does not do that any more.
Ugh - I don't want to spend $20 to get another set of driver wheels for this thing. I want to get rid of it.
gatrhumpy That's the funny thing. I'm looking at this thing, and the drivers all seem to be in quarter. When the left side counterweights is at top dead center, the right side is 90 degrees off from that (on the side). This thing used to make a whir-whir-whir-whir sound, but I adjusted the driver slightly to where it does not do that any more. Ugh - I don't want to spend $20 to get another set of driver wheels for this thing. I want to get rid of it.
Spend another $20 and do it right.
Then, you may decide to keep or still sell it on eBay.
If you put it up for auction again on eBay, start the bidding at a lower price, the minimum you would accept, and go from there. Be aware that this is a poor time of the year to be selling locos on eBay. You will get more interest and better bidding if you relist in the late fall around or after Thanksgiving.
Rich
Alton Junction
At this point I'm not entirely convinced it's the drivers. Within the realm of the freeplay of the drivers, I moved the left side all the way to the front (moved them forward), and made sure the right side was 90 degrees off from that. Not sure what else is going on. I checked the resistance of the driver wheels to each of the other drivers on the same side, and even to the tender wheels, and they all came out fine.
I hope you realize,,that having the counter weights,adjusted to the way you say,,,has nothing to do with the drivers being in quarter..Take the drivers and roll them on a flat surface,,if they wobble,one wheel,or the other,then that means,it's out of quarter...