Mark
I'm not quite local. We live in Bradford on the Holland Marsh. Point Pelee is about a 4 1/2 hour drive.
I hope you enjoy seeing the multitude of birds that come your way each spring.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Just so nobody thinks I am ignoring them on this thread, I am going to be gone for a few days after tomorrow (Monday) so I will reply once I get back. We are going bird watching (my other hobby, which I share with my wife) at Point Pelee National Park on Lake Erie, just southeast of Windsor, Ontario. Now stop laughing - it is a serious hobby! Point Pelee is one of the premiere birding sites in the world at this time of year. We may see 50 or 60 different species in three days. Each to his own, eh! And besides, I might get a new camera out of the deal! Hehehe! Dave
Just so nobody thinks I am ignoring them on this thread, I am going to be gone for a few days after tomorrow (Monday) so I will reply once I get back.
We are going bird watching (my other hobby, which I share with my wife) at Point Pelee National Park on Lake Erie, just southeast of Windsor, Ontario. Now stop laughing - it is a serious hobby! Point Pelee is one of the premiere birding sites in the world at this time of year. We may see 50 or 60 different species in three days.
Each to his own, eh! And besides, I might get a new camera out of the deal! Hehehe!
Didn't realize you were a local guy .... Point Pelee is only a few miles from me !
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Wow Randy, that is amazingly small and the price is pretty close to the Z2.
Darn it, now you have gone and spent more of my money again! Please don't tell my wife!!
I do recognize that I would have to maintain all of the components in the TCS Keep Alive unit but I thought there might be a possibility of making it a little longer and narrower, or of distributing the components throughout the engine a bit
Oh and here's a place in the US that sells the CT Elektronik decoders - with a nice picture for size comparison: http://store.sbs4dcc.com/ctelektronikdcx76z/fsub-microdccdecodernem6516-pinwiredplug.aspx
Yes, smaller than the head on a dime! Want to add DCC to a hand car? This is the decoder to use. This would be good for the Bachmann Speeder too, I think.
Oh and the product page has the specs translated into English, in case you lack even my very basic rusty German. And an English version of the manual, which I've seen before - kind of lacking on the advanced motor control stuff (lacking in explanation - not in capabilities), but other than specifics liek that they are NMRA compliant decoders and are listed in JMRI as well.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Wow, I haven't had much reason to play around with anything smaller than the TCS MC series (in my 44 tonner, coincidently) - everything else I have is bigger and fits a T1 size decoder. That IS amazingly small. My 44 tonner is the newer single motor one, so I don;t have a good reference on the size of that power truck, but a friend of mine scratchbuilds small N scalle steam locos with tender drive AND sloped tenders, for tiny decoders he uses a CT Elektronik one which I think is about the smallest decoder made, but that looks almost as small.
Edit - just looked it up. The CT Elektronik page is in German but dimensions in MM are given, as they are on the TCS web page. The Z2 is listed as 12.95mm x 6.65mm x 2.75mm. The CTE DCX76Z is listed as the smallest decoder in the workld and is HALF the size of the Z2 - 6.9mm x 6.1mm x 1.7mm. 0.8A max current, 1.6A peak: http://www.tran.at/Produkte/DCX76z.shtml
The TCS keep-alive modules can be reworked a little bit, but the overall volume will remain the same - you can;t cut out a capacitor, since they are low voltage and wired in series, remove any and the remaining ones will overvolt and Bad Things will happen. With that small of a decoder - perhaps a surface mount regular electrolytic along with a surface mount resistor and diode could be crammed in. It won't be the duration of the TCS kepp alive, but you likely don't need several seconds of power to keep it moving.
Hi Randy:
Neat videos. Thanks.
They were running a little fast. My Mack runs fine at those speeds too. However, higher speeds will mask momentary pickup problems, as I'm sure you know. I want to be able to run mine reliably at slow speeds and that is where I am having a few minor problems. Hence the effort to find a 'keep alive' solution, be it twinned engines or a wagon with circuitry inside and all wheel pickup.
By the way, I got the TCS Z2 deoder and it is really tiny! It is intended to go into a Bachmann speeder but I am going to keep it as an option for the 15 tonner if the sound thing doesn't materialize. The Z2 could be squeezed into a couple of different spots by losing a bit of the lead sheet weight, leaving the top of the cab wide open. The top of the cab might then be able to hold a deconstructed (rearranged) TCS Keep Alive circuit.
Here are a couple of comparison shots between the TCS Z2 and a Digitrax DN135:
This is speculation at this point but worth a look. I do think I will buy a TCS Keep Alive module just to play with.
Problem now is I have almost too many options to weigh through! Goes to prove there is more than one way to pet a cat!
Here's a video I found of one running, DC. Same Bachmann 44-ton power unit. It's going a bit fast, but it seems to not have pickup issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn6VrQV5brA
There sure is a lack of information on those little Mack switchers available. Best guess is that that had a pair of 4 cylinder gas engines in them. There's a good bit of information about their plant switchers #4 and #5, but those were not built in-house, they are square boxcabs that were modofied with mack engines into gas-electric units, not steeplecabs like the little 4 wheel model. There's a 12-ton version not to far from me, non-operating and by one report basically been rusting away in storage for 30 years, although another says it is being cosmetically restored. That one looks exactly like the Jordan model. Only place you could get proper motor sounds for somethign like this would be an antique truck show, if there are any operational Mack model AC trucks with the original motor. There's no mention of what sort of horn or bell the little steeplecabs had, the boxcabs it is mentioned that the original air whistle was repalced with a truck air horn (these being modified around 1939), and the missing bell on them never replaced. The 10-20 year older steeplecabs - I don't know what they would have used. I lean towards an air whistle, dunno if they had air horns for trucks in the 1920's.
Mark:
I had assumed that the Mack was gas powered, and I believe that it had two engines. There are two exhaust stacks.
I thought originally that I could get away with a diesel sound but once I heard the files I decided that I wouldn't be happy with the result. I did notice that there was at least one European engine with twin motors but IIRC they were 12 cylinders each. That would certainly give me a critter with lots of bark, but not much bite. I think there would be a real disconnect between the 15 tonner and the sound it was making!
For now, I am going to work on ways to get it to run reliably (or 'them' if I gang two together). There is no use investing in sound if it doesn't run smoothly.
Thanks again
hon30critter Hi Mark: Thanks for the suggestion for the sound file. Unfortunately I can't get past the diesel rattle. I guess I could pretend that it was a really worn out gas engine but then I'd have to find space for a smoke unit to mimic the amount of oil the thing would be using. Dave
Hi Mark:
Thanks for the suggestion for the sound file. Unfortunately I can't get past the diesel rattle. I guess I could pretend that it was a really worn out gas engine but then I'd have to find space for a smoke unit to mimic the amount of oil the thing would be using.
Ah - So you're running gas instead of diesel, huh ? The Galloping Goose might be closer to what you're after ....
Look in the ESU European section. I used file number 54880 for my high rail truck. Would probably sound pretty good for your critter as well. There's a sound sample there for you to listen to ....
http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/generation-4/loksound-v40/?tx_esudecoderprojects_pi1%5Bpage%5D=3&cHash=2be90b8daa4c528a76aa9e8ee4880172
I also used a 4.0 Micro decoder and swapped out the horn.
(edit) - Just checked my customer files, and I also used file number 72443 (a converted 3.5 file) which is a CAT diesel in a number of client's On30 critters and they are thrilled with them !
Randy:
I know the sound of a VW slide valve engine very well and it just wouldn't cut it with me. I am not a VW fan, to put it politely.
Rich:
Thanks for the link to Marcus's information.
A Stay Alive link everyone should read and store in Favorites or Bookmarks. Helps prevent assumptions. A lot of this is experimenting.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm
Pay attention to the resistor and diode. Many who assume are not aware of this.
Marcus is very active in some of the Yahoo DCC Groups.
If you need say, 1000 to 2000 ufd for caps, they will take up some room.
Some sound decoders come with 250 ufd but only for sound.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The Goose one would probably be the closest to a small gas engine. They do have one for the V4 series that's a VW "Bus" but the 4 clylinder opposed VW motors are very distinctive sounding and anyone that's ever heard one will immediately recognize it. The V4 Micro is probably the best bet, over the Select Micro, since you cna easily mix and match sounds to get a decent motor mixed with a plausible whistle or some sort (I'm sure those little switchers didn;t have some big K5LA on them! Probably a single chime air whistle, not even a simple honker air horn). Of course, you'd need a Lokprogrammer to edit the sounds.
DCFIXER - this generally requires soldering on tot he decoder but thew latest TCS T series decoders have a plug to attach the keep-alive, and some others bring the required connection out to regular connection tabs on the decoder, same as things like track pickup wires and headlight wires attach, the new Loksound decoders are like that. The wire 'missing' on most motor decoders is a negative common off the rectifier, usually you have to go under the shrink wrap, if present, and attach a wire to the approriate spot on the decoder board. The blue headlight common is the positive side.
Mark R. The capacitor installs in parallel to the rectified input on the decoder and does not affect the overlayed signal what-so-ever. All it does is to continue to power the board after track contact is lost. The internal memory in the chipset will maintain the last signal received before power loss - there are no signal packets being received during a power loss. Mark.
The capacitor installs in parallel to the rectified input on the decoder and does not affect the overlayed signal what-so-ever. All it does is to continue to power the board after track contact is lost. The internal memory in the chipset will maintain the last signal received before power loss - there are no signal packets being received during a power loss.
That's makes sense. I misunderstood where the capacitance would be added. Does it require soldering on the decoder, or is there some kind of plug provided?
DC
http://uphonation.com
Hi Mark
I spent some time tonight listening to Loksound's available selections for their micro decoder, and there are indeed a couple that would work just fine. I am not a rivet counter so the differences between a small diesel and a small gas engine aren't going to cause me to lose any sleep.
By the way, I am assuming that the Mack 15 tonner was gas powered. I hope I am right on that but if not, somebody please kick my ........ OH, sorry, not to offend the moderators....... kick my shin!
I put a Loksound micro decoder, speaker, headlights / tail lights AND a stay alive module in a powered hi-rail truck .... so it is possible !
Loksound has some great small diesel sounds in their European section. I found a perfect one that sounded just like a diesel truck - even had the correct starter sound !
OK Randy!!! Enough already!!! How dare you spend my money like that!!!!!
Seriously, good idea re the sound. Do you happen to know if Loksound has an appropriate engine sound available? I looked into sound for my mini-goose but I couldn't find anything suitable on the market. Loksound has a Gallopping Goose sound decoder in the works but they don't seem to offer an availability date. It is possible to add your own sounds to a Loksound decoder but unfortunately for me at my current stage in electronic modeling, that seems to be a bit out of my reach.
EDIT: The Loksound micro will actually just fit into the 15 tonner cab! OK, now things are beginning to take shape! I now have to research their available sound files to see if there is anything that would even remotely sound like a Mack engine.
You wouldn't have to put a motor in the second one - just some weight and pickups. Oh and a keep alive capacitor. In fact there might be enough room for a keep alive capacitor and a speaker - with a Loksound Micro in the powered unit.
Two 15 tonners working together would look pretty neat in my opinion. I can see that if both were motored and there were power connections between the two engines running reliability should be pretty good. I will have to do an amp test to see if I could get away with running two motors on one decoder. If not its no big deal. I would have to speed match the two engines as well as possible.
Frank:
I have a gon behind the critter in my avatar which actually contains the motor, so I'm not averse to using a gon to carry a Keep Alive circuit. I could also wire the gon for power pickup which would theoretically make the consist a very reliable runner. By the way, my avatar critter has - get this - 12 wheel pick up! Four on the engine wheels and eight on the gon. The gon has four wheel trucks because it was originally an N scale coal tender.
Even if the capacitor did not interfere with the DCC signal I still have to find space for it. That clearly isn't going to happen in the 15 tonner if it runs by itself, but thanks for your input.
Everyone! Thanks for your help. There seems to be two choices - run two engines together, or hook up a gon or caboose to carry the Keep Alive circuit. I have enough kits and power trucks to do both actually, so I might just do that! I'll have critters running everywhere! May not leave any space for real trains!
dcfixer I think you are going to have trouble running it if you filter that track signal too much. The decoder relies on the pulse width modulation that is DCC. The modulating DCC square wave peaks from plus to minus at about 5 -10 KHz. I'm not sure about that freq range, but I don't think that you can put enough C on it to improve power pickup without "rounding off" that signal too much. The Booster may not like it, either. I think you need a special "keep alive" circuit designed for the DCC signal.
I think you are going to have trouble running it if you filter that track signal too much. The decoder relies on the pulse width modulation that is DCC. The modulating DCC square wave peaks from plus to minus at about 5 -10 KHz. I'm not sure about that freq range, but I don't think that you can put enough C on it to improve power pickup without "rounding off" that signal too much. The Booster may not like it, either. I think you need a special "keep alive" circuit designed for the DCC signal.
If you run two of them together, you might not even need the keep alive, as you would then have 8 wheel pickup. But that's pretty much the only option, even the smallest surface mount capacitors aren't going to be of sufficient value to give any effective keep alive ability when also small enough to physically fit. You could give it a try, wutht he highest value 16V rated surface mount capacitor that will fit - the resistor and diode aren't strictly needed, although you may have trouble programming it with just the capacitor. It may only give a fraction of a second of juice but that may be enough to keep it moving.
The only other option is to make sure all frogs are powered, and keep everything scrupulously clean - track, wheels, pickup wipers.
zstripe Dave, As I said in the beginning,,trying to get something to fit in that little,mouse,is going to be the tuff part..When I mentioned trailer,,,How about,the mouses,sister,a little work caboose,behind her brother?? Just a thought!! Don't give up,''Buddy'', I have confidence,in you.. Cheers, Frank
Dave,
As I said in the beginning,,trying to get something to fit in that little,mouse,is going to be the tuff part..When I mentioned trailer,,,How about,the mouses,sister,a little work caboose,behind her brother?? Just a thought!! Don't give up,''Buddy'', I have confidence,in you..
Cheers,
Frank
You can even,have,elect. pick-ups,on the mouse,caboose..
OK! I give up!!
I just spent a bunch of time searching Digi-Key's site for capacitors that would do the job AND fit, and as Mark gently suggested, there ain't no such thing!!
Oh well, now I have to explore other options. The concept of a trailer is becoming more interesting, or perhaps two 15 ton Macks hitched together with one powered and the other carrying a TCS Keep Alive decoder.
I'm going to have to think about this one a bit more.
Thanks for all of your input!
Thanks for the information about what capacitance I would need to get a reasonable amount of reserve power to keep the critter operating.
I looked at the NWSL Stanton drives and their model 1210 does offer the correct 6' 6" wheelbase. Unfortunately the width of the Stanton drive's body is just a bit too wide to fit inside the 15 tonner's body. It is very close but in order to get the wheels at the right height the Stanton motor has to go up into the shell a bit, and it is too wide for that. I could mount the body higher above the wheels I guess. I would have to do a mock up to see if the switcher still looked reasonably accurate.
There is another small issue and that is the price of the NWSL Stanton drives. I got the powered truck I am using for about $10.00 and I have eight of them to work with. (I bought four of the Bachmann 44 toners with the two motor drive through eBay for about $20 per engine). So, being a (something that starts with a B) for punishment, I have committed myself to working with the 44 tonner self powered trucks.
My next step is to see what size capacitors I can gang together to accomplish basically the same thing the TCS 2.5 volt capacitors do. Maybe I can, and maybe I can't, but I ain't quitting just yet!
Thanks for your help!