I made mine too, and went with NCE. If I had the money I'd have chosen Digitrax, and I'm sure I'd have been happy with that.
If you haven't already seen it, check out this video of basic operation of both Digitrax and NCE.
I've made my decision. I want to thank everyone for their comments and recommendations. I've decided to go with Digitrax. While I liked the ease of use of NCE, I feel that LocoNet was the tie breaker. I'm looking forward to the learning experience that goes with Digitrax.
Thanks to everyone for their help.
Bruce
What problems are you having witht he radio? Even in public shows, our club radio system works quite reliably, and I know they never updated anything to the newer firmware which would make it even better. Heck until the last show they had the Loconet ID on the default, but another club set up next to us and already were using it, so they FINALLY had to change it off the default (you shoud ALWAYS change things off the default as the first step - be it the radio ID or a board ID on something like a DS64). There haven't been reports of any serious radio issues since the last firmware update, a few that were having issues have reported them now solved. And that was still only a few out of all the users, for most people it works fine, just plug it in and go.
--Randy
wjstix I have to admit I've been very disappointed with the Digitrax radio-throttle system. It seems to work worse then their infra-red did. Otherwise I'm happy with Digitrax, but if I were doing it over would probaby try a different system to see how their radio control worked.
I have to admit I've been very disappointed with the Digitrax radio-throttle system. It seems to work worse then their infra-red did. Otherwise I'm happy with Digitrax, but if I were doing it over would probaby try a different system to see how their radio control worked.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The bottom line is you really can't go wrong with either system (or most DCC systems). There are just too many variables to consider, not the least of which is the individual's specific layout needs (scale, size, type, what the local club uses, future needs etc etc). It is just so subjective...as evidence by the responses here. A person in the market for their first DCC system could listen to testimonials all day for weeks on end and never get a clear or definitive answer as to which system he/she needs to buy/should buy. NCE users are solidly loyal to their brand and there is no convincing them otherwise...vice versa for Digitrax fans. If possible, go to a club and test as many systems as possible, or find a hobby store that allows for testing, or some fellow modelers willing to let you test drive their systems. In the absence of being able to test, you can't go wrong with NCE or Digitrax or pretty much any system mentioned in this thread. Perhaps it will come down to cost, choosing a system that fits your budget? But whatever system is chosen WILL work, work WELL, and make you a happy model railroader.
Besides, the REAL debate is Coke vs. Pepsi...
Regards, Don
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
I've had my new Digitrax Super Chief system over three months now and after studying pro's and con's of other systems before making my choice, I would buy Digitrax again in a heart beat. Coming from 30 years of DC operation the manuals with the Digitrax system have taught me step by step about operating and understanding DCC. Doug
Funny how NCE users think Digitrax users are geeks, whereas Digitrax users think NCE users must be utter morons because they can't figure out the simple controls of a Digitrax system.
It is totally a matter of personal choice. Notice how few users would choose to switch? Once you settle on a system you stick with it. They are all simple to use, they just have the emphasis on different features. It is up to the OP to decide what is important and base their decision on that.
Not that it is remotely relevant, but yes I am a geek and will happily stay in geekdom, at least that is what I must be based on previous posts?
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I've used both Digitrax and NCE on some moderately large layouts, and I'd still go with Digitrax if I were starting over again.
Once we retired our DT100 throttles, it has been simple to use-- I'm amazed that Digitrax survived that series of throttles. They still work, but the current throttles (UT4, DT402) are so much easier to use.
There are far more options to expand Loconet than for any other system out there. And I've been able to use that variety to advantage on a couple of layouts.
On the two large-ish layouts I run on regularly that use NCE, there are really only two things that annoy me that are related to the DCC system, and they're fairly minor:
1) I generally find myself frustrated by how slowly the system responds to keypresses, especially when creating consists. And those ProCabs are tethered.
2) The 20 minutes that we always seem to spend at the beginning of each session on one particular layout, changing throttle addresses so there aren't any duplicate throttle numbers (or throttle numbers that overlap Mini Panels and AIUs) among the throttles people bring. That last one is really more a function of the operations culture in the area, but is a side-effect of the system design..
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
I've had my Lenz system for about 8 years now, and I still love it.
Why? Big buttons. More than anything, the Dispatcher's throttle is easy for large-handed people to operate, even in low light. (I'm one of those guys who hates laptop keyboards, and doesn't text very fast.)
The "Engineer's throttle," the one with the big analog knob, is not user friendly.
The Dispatcher's throttle holds 32 locomotives on its "stack." The basic System 100 comes with 5 amps, so I've never needed to upgrade for more power.
Yeah, Digitrax and NCE are the big guys, but don't overlook the other options.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I only read the OP, but offer the following
1. No company/system is perfect.
2. I really like the dual control knobs of the Digitrax system. Makes consisting a snap plus I can run many units at one time. At first I didn't think I would like them, but after using them for about 4 years, I really use them a lot.
3. I have an 8 amp version and need it, don't think NCE offers one. You can never have too much power available in my estimation as you expand what you want the system doing, particularly beyond just running locos. Consider turnouts, car lights, etc. No need for $ spent and time wiring/setting up added boosters until much later.
4. The radio system works great from a couple of rooms away.
5. I'm not crazy about their decoders.
I'm not all that comfortable with computers, which is to me the main dividing line between those who like Digitrax and those who like NCE. Those geeky enough to build their own computers tend to be Digitrax fans. Those who turn green when asked to plumb the drivers on their laptop are more likely to enjoy NCE.
To me, NCE is very user friendly, easy to find what you need and change it, and just tends to be more intuitive for new users. Digitrax tends to be more widely used locally, but some of those who I run with also seem mystified by Digitrax.
As for Loconet, see the earlier references to one's geekdom comfort level. If you really need that whizbang, then it's great. I would simply be turning in circles trying to make it through the Digitrax user manual and like most of us don't have a need to support signaling, track occupancy, etc. NCE either has an option on the shelf for most needs or there are other manufacturers whose products are NCE-compatible. Like with computers, lots of options are nice, but a lot of folks just want a plug-n-play solution that allows common options or is otherwise simple to set-up and use. Others want all the options a la Digitrax, which would only confuse many of us like this does on our computers.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I operate on a club with Digitrax, and most of the layouts I operate on as a visitor are Digitrax, so I have my own Digitrax throttle. Not one of the bigger ones with the half-ton of buttons, but one of the smaller, limited-functionality throttles (I can't throw turnouts with it, for example).
But I much prefer the system I have at home - NCE. Why? Two reasons:
That last could start all sorts of flaming. It isn't really meant to.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
1. Loconet. It's what keeps Digitrax from being dated. Upgrades to command stations are not needed.
2. Probably about the same. There are more messages on Digitrax Yahoo group but it also has almost twice the membership as NCE's group.
3. I would absolutely buy Digitrax again because of Loconet. Ireally didn't know what it was when I started. I do now and it does make a huge difference.
Martin Myers
I'd do the same thing: get one of each. Looking at a model railroader's expenses after a couple of years and the cost of two entry level systems is but a small piece of the pie.
NCE - instant ease of use. my 4 year old daughter and my 80 year old father can both run a train and ring the bell, toot the whistle, without me 'teaching' them anything. The button says 'Bell' ..pretty intuitive stuff. Also, people either fail to mention or don't know this, the power cab can program ANY decoder, period.
Digitrax - Loconet, expandability, just set up my pr3, zephyr, and a touch screen computer for my train room
Download JMRI. Either system can allow you to use your phone as a throttle, which is where the hobby is headed anyway.. ultimate plug & play ease of use.
1. Loconet. Period. Loconet means you are not locked into buying your ancillary devices (stationary decoders, detection, signalling, etc.) from one manufacturer. Search around and you will find a VERY wide range of options to do whatever your heart desires from manufacturers all over the globe.
2. Too subjective. Horror stories are like belly buttons - everybody has one.
3. I would choose Digitrax again.
Dwayne A
I would do Digitrax all over again. Loconet is the edge. Not that you cant do this with NCE but I now have my system hooked up to JMRI and am getting into operations. With JMRI and Loconet I hope to have my entire layout automated. With JMRI, either your laptop. tablet, or smartphone is now a throttle so the argument that one brands controller is better is gone. Everyone (almost except for Lions, shut-ins and Ludites) seems to have a smartphone these days so they already arrive at my layout with a throttle regardless if they are in the hobby or not. I think I am making some converts with the free JMRI download for the phone to MR.
I can't speak to how involved you can get with NCE and JMRI because I have not experience with an NCE setup. BUT IMHO I think when you are choosing ANY DCC system the question should be how far and fancy you can go with JMRI. Remember its not just for programming decoders.
My two cents you mileage may vary, Derek
I just converted to DCC about two weeks ago. I was lucky enough to be able to 'test drive' the Digitrax starter set and NCE Power Cab starter set. Both were good. Here's how I would answer your questions:
1. I went with NCE because I found it easier to use. I liked the feel of the Power Cab, how it was organized/laid out, and the backlit display was easy to read and monitor. Programing is a snap...and I am computer challenged! Even with the Cab not being wireless, the cord is ample in length allowing me to "walk around" and follow my train(s). I can upgrade the system easily and add a cordless cab(s) should I ever need/want to.
2. Too subjective and open to the individual modelers personal tastes in my humble opinion.
3. No, not at all! I am VERY happy with my NCE Power Cab and I would buy it again without a moments hesitation.
I just got back to the hobby last year and decided on DCC, quickly narrowed down to NCE & Digitrax. I can't comment on the technical issues as many are more aware but determined both would be workable for me, including additional auxiliary subdistrict circuit boards, etc, from the maker or alternate creators. I concentrated on the handheld controllers. It would be great if you could try both brands to see what you like better. I went with NCE (Powerpro 5 amp) with corded controller and aux utility controller. The main controller for speed control has 3 aspects; a thumbwheel, and fine and coarse step up/down speed buttons. The utility controller has a rheostat control that can be set to two different modes. Purely a preference aspect, I disliked the button types on the Digitrax, but's that an individual preference.
Other key aspects might be: what any local buddies / clubs use where you might interface, and LHS support if you want to rely on that. You might want to understand how program track setup works with each as well as how mainline / operating programming works, whether a program track booster is needed, etc, as that may affect how you will set up your wiring.
I found a conversation with Tony at Tony's Trains very helpful in making a final decision and then deciding what exact parts I needed for my system beyond the main system package, e.g., subdistrict circuit breaker and reverser boards.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
While we can have this debate and there will never be a clear winner - and dragging up past experiences with any brand -
Does NOT have much bearing with the Current state of DCC as it is today!
All systems were going through growing pains as we all were ALL learning DCC as did the manufacturers!
While some had problems with Digitrax on thir large layouts - I didn't with the Silplex Radios from the beginning (back in 1999) my Layout ran great and I could host OPs Sessions with 40 operators and the Digitrax just kept running.
No having to reset the layout during an OPs Session - just turn it on and run.
Yes - later when I added DUPLEX - It still ran good - now the problems only started with SOFTWARE UPDATES and this caused problems until the software was sorted out.
NOW
I have a great running Layout again and still hold OPs Session with 35 plue operators running BOTH DUPLEX and SIMPLEX radios exclusively !
So those that keep dragging up the past are not telling the whole truth as any NEW SYSTEM being purchased TODAY
Will work as it is supposed to as the problems have been solved - This goes for any Brand out there as they would be out of business if the DCC did not work!
The best advice is Operate on as many layouts running DCC as possible to see them in action
Believing others saying one is best is just foolish!
And going with what most others in your area are using is also a wise decision as the Owners of that DCC System will be better able to advise and HELP a Nube to DCC a lot better as they SHOULD know their system inside out!
Listening to a bunch on here spout one brand over another is just opinions and we ALL know what an OPINION is worth! ;-)
I have run every system out there and GUESS What - They ALL WORKED!
So trying to get a debate about which one is best is a JOKE !
And since I am throwing out OPINIONS - mine is DIGITRAX.
BOB H - Clarion, PA
I would go with NCE again. (I have a 5 amp Power Pro) I also have a stand-alone LocoNet for my signals and block detection.
I operate Digitrax at the club, but still like my NCE system better.
I belong to both the NCE and Digitrax Yahoo Groups. I see a lot of new Digitrax users having more problems than new NCE users.
If you are going to have a really big layout, I would suggest the NCE 5 amp Power Pro system for it. At the same time, I would also get the NCE Power Cab system and use it at the bench for programming and testing locomotives. And, you can also use the Power Cab's throttle on the Power Pro system as another throttle.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Ah yes the ford vs chevy thing all over again. If I knew then what I know now I would be collecting post cards instead of model railroading. Just kidding. This is a great and very diverse hobby. What you choose is up to you. My advise is to try as many systems and throttles as you can. There are many more than two systems too. Lenz, ESU, Easy DCC, Digitraxx, MRC, and NCE. Try them all if you can and download the manuals and flip through them.
Of all the different systems I have operated on I like the feel of my Lenz LH90 throttle for operating trains the best, but for programming ease I use my Power Cab from NCE.
My
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Hi,
I did a huge amount of research before making the switch to DCC four years ago. Once I decided it was right for me, the next question was "which system". It ended up with the two most popular brands - NCE and Digitrax. I asked a lot of questions on this Forum and at the two LHS and the responses reminded me of the "Ford vs. Chevy" conversations of my youth.
Basically, you can't go wrong with either. I did like the looks of the Digitrax units better than the NCE, but the NCE controller looked better than the Digitrax. This is obviously no big deal, and was one of the few differences I found that even came close to making a difference.
I ended up going with Digitrax - two 5 amp Super Chief systems. But, all the decoders I bought (over 30) were NCE.
Am I happy with my decision? Yes, very much so. I do like the Digitrax system, but I honestly feel that if I had bought an NCE system, I would have felt the same about it.
Either way, you can't go wrong.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I started with Lenz back in 1993. Ran that until 1995 when I had maxxed out the capabilities of the then Lenz system. I then looked at both Digitrax and Sys 1. Remember this was 1995 and the Digitrax handset at that time was the dt100. I intended to go to 4 digit address decoders replacing the 99 address capable Lenz ones of that era. The Digitrax handset the dt-100 was a real pain to use with 4 digit decoders and the Sys 1 was easy so I went the Sys 1 route. Move ahead 5 years . By this time Sys 1 was out of business but NCE had now built their own system. Since NCE had done most of the original design work on Sys 1 it was a good continuation so I went with NCE. By this time I wanted to go to radio handsets but the then NCE radio had many problems and did not work well. Also by this time Digitrax had come out with their dt-400 and ut-4 handsets a much better user friendlier design than the horrible dt-100. The Digitrax radio worked very well as I operate on others railroads that use the system. So I decided to switch to Digitrax. All that was required to switch was a new command station and handsets. The Sys 1 boosters worked with the Digitrax system.
Now I have a large operation requiring about 28 handsets in operation. At that time I was modeling the early Conrail period on my Buffalo line. This meant many multiple unit diesel consists. After awhile I discovered the flaw in the Digitrax world. The flaw is the number of active locomotives that the command station can handle at one time. That number is 120. While 120 seems like a lot if you have a large motive power fleet and have large numbers of consists already made up on trains in staging yards the 120 limit becomes a problem. The existing system does not have the capability to expand beyond the 120 without making all older handsets obselete. That is why they have not done so. The NCE benefit is a slot capability of somewhere near 2000 locos. So after waiting for an upgrade to the Digitrax system for a few years and realizing that it would not happen I switched back to NCE back in 2006. Since I had last used the system the radio problems had been fixed so that eliminated one of the major reasons I had left in the first place. I've been with NCE since then and see no reason to use anything else. The system is much more user friendly than Digitrax. I like the consisting method much better than Digitrax. I have had less problems with loss of control requiring rebooting the system with NCE in fact I have never had to do so with NCE but did have to almost every session with Digitrax. Most people will not need the capacity requirements that I need but the user friendly portion makes NCE the best to me. A portion of my crew are Digitrax users and most like the NCE handsets better than their Digitrax units.
Digitrax been there done that not again !!! I would suggest trying both systems before making your decision. Run a train make a consist and break up a consist. try and determine what you want the system to do or may want it to do. Either one will handle most model railroad situations. ---- Ken McCorry---- DCC since 1993
I bought NCE the first time, luckily. And would buy it again in a heartbeat. The NCE range of controllers fits my needs and my hands (and eyes) best. Try both.
I like my NCE Power Cab. It is expandable should the need arise, which it will in your case if all goes according to plan. It is easy to operate and to reprogram decoders.
I have not tried a Digitrax system but when I first compared NCE and Digitrax my mind went numb looking at all the identical buttons on the Digitrax. I am all thumbs so I avoided the Digitrax learning curve and I am happy with my choice.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
No, I would still go with NCE. Digitrax does do a few things better than NCE but I still like the interface and intuitiveness of the Power Cab/ProCab throttles over the Digitrax throttles.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Go to Tony's Train Exchange site. On it you will find a comparison of several different systems, which may point you to the better system for YOUR situation. Number of cabs you want to operate, physical size of your layout, expandability are all things you want to consider.
I am also at the point of making a decision, so am looking closely at all the options.
As mentioned above, there is also the consideration of what is used in your area. If you have the opportunity to go to a club or round robin group, easier if you have a compatible system. First, you will be familiar with it's operation and second you can bring along your own control and others can bring theirs to your layout.
You can see from the above that most folks like what they have. Changing from one to another is a whole new learning experience.
Good luck,
Richard
If I was doing my DCC system decision over again I would not have 5 systems (MRC, Lenz, Digitrax, NCE, CVP). I would go with CVP as my 1 and only.
But to answer your question not make my my own comments.
1. A. I love the built in computer port on the NCE unit. With the Digitrax I had to buy that as an add on. B. The Digitrax transponding is pretty easy to work with, but then one is stuck with Digitrax decoders. C. The Digitrax Zephyr has the jumper ports that are pretty cool. D. The last upgrade of the NCE wireless seems to have cured all quirks. But over all I cannot think of any straight up functions that one can do that the other cannot.
I think I actually use the NCE more than the Digitrax, but that just could be because the number of people's layouts that have that particular system. In general I don't like the big NCE hammer head throttles. I prefer the Cab-06r. I like the dual controls on the Digitrax DT402. I am a firm believer in 1 controller per train on the track. This swapping back and forth and "stacks" to move control between simultaneously running trains is not a good plan.
2. I have not had the opportunity to work with either of the technical support departments. I have sent decoders back to NCE for repair with no problems. Actually Lenz has had the best technical support I've come across. Through the last 2 decades I cannot count how many upgrades they have provided to me for the cost of shipping.
3. See my first sentence. However between the two you seem to be considering I would probably choose NCE.
1) LocoNet, and the number of both Digitrax and third-party LocoNet-compatible devices that are available. After all, you see any number of NCE users adding stand-alone LocoNets for signaling, detection, etc, but I have yet to hear of even a single Digitrax user adding some sort of NCE command bus.
2) A reputation is subjective, so it depends on who you talk to. My personal experience as a Digitrax user over the past ten-plus years is that I've never had anything that could be called a "technical problem". I've also never had any equipment failures/DOA/etc. Everything has Always Just Worked, and worked quite well.
3) Nope! When I was first looking for a DCC system, I was pretty much settled on either Wangrow or NCE, since I had "grown up" on a System One on a friend's layout. The only question left was "Which one?", and with Wangrow in it's death throes that would have been an easy decision. However, that also made me take a closer look at Digitrax, and even back then their ability, flexibility and expandability swayed me. It's only gotten better over the years with all the third-party LocoNet stuff, duplex, user-downloadable firmware updates, etc.