Yeah right. I am just stating my experience, and the DCC system messed up their engines. If you want something reliable, try an NCE Power Pro or a Digitrax. One of my friends had a Digitrax Zephyr, and it shorted out when two wires crossed on ist temporary layout. It remained that way for about a half hour, then when my friend found out, he removed it. However, it still turned back on after that half hour, very impressive.
NS 5050: Southern Style on NS H76.
csxbnsfbnrailway Maybe I'm not helping without showing the layout design. It can be found here http://www.walthers.com/page/CCBR.pdf . Off of the straight away, I plan on having a helix to a lower level, a yard. The helix will be a 2% grade approximately.
Maybe I'm not helping without showing the layout design. It can be found here http://www.walthers.com/page/CCBR.pdf . Off of the straight away, I plan on having a helix to a lower level, a yard. The helix will be a 2% grade approximately.
Ouch - you are starting with a 5x6 foot spaghetti bowl track plan, and then want to add (according to a post in another thread) a fairly tight radius helix. Choosing a DCC system may not be the biggest challenge for your layout.
Stein
I would be the first to say that the Power Cab and/or SB3a is NOT for everyone, Steve; nor would I ever imply it. No DCC system is - even though I know you believe otherwise.
Perhaps, though, you should have addressed your "alternative" in your post directly to the OP rather than in a backhanded manner to me. Since it was the latter and not an uncommon MO of yours, THAT is what I considered a fruitless discussion.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage Since the Zephyr or Zephyr Xtra (both very good systems) were not in the original equation, Steve, I was merely confining my comments to the PA2 and Power Cab. The cost of the Power Cab and SB3a combo vs. the PA2 is slightly less more (with the inclusion of the 5A power supply), as per the pricing on the TTE site. Given that those are what the OP was confining his choices to, the discussion is fruitless. Happy to have chosen the "un-economical" route, Steve. One man's "considerable restrictions" is another man's operational enjoyment. Tom
Since the Zephyr or Zephyr Xtra (both very good systems) were not in the original equation, Steve, I was merely confining my comments to the PA2 and Power Cab. The cost of the Power Cab and SB3a combo vs. the PA2 is slightly less more (with the inclusion of the 5A power supply), as per the pricing on the TTE site. Given that those are what the OP was confining his choices to, the discussion is fruitless.
Happy to have chosen the "un-economical" route, Steve. One man's "considerable restrictions" is another man's operational enjoyment.
Tom, I think that csxbnsfbnrailway was open to considering systems other than just the two he originally mentioned, and therefore I also think introducing alternatives to the discussion wasn't fruitless at all. In fact, a reading of his original post, and one of his later posts in this thread, certainly bears out both of those thoughts.
In his original post, he asked, "I'm wondering if you guys have any opinions towards what DCC controller I should get." Not "which one of these two", but "what DCC controller". That would seem to pretty much leave it open, and was the basis for my suggestion of the Zephyr Xtra as an alternative.
Secondly, csxbnsfbnrailway later posted that "I think I will go with the NCE PH-PRO set..." and "As for the digitrax systems I don't think..." Based on those two statements, it's obvious that yes, other DCC systems were considered. And the fact that he ultimately picked a different system, and that the two systems he originally mentioned were among the discards, really drives home the point that he wasn't limiting himself to those two as you seem to think he was.
I'm glad you like your SB3a system, Tom, and that you get the operational enjoyment you desire from it. But the inverse of your closing statement is also true: One man's operational enjoyment is another man's considerable restrictions. In other words, DCC isn't a "one SB3a fits all" world.
So again, discussions such as this where alternatives are introduced, explored, and yes rejected in the course of a user finding the right DCC system for them, are not fruitless at all, at least not in my opinion.
I'll bet your friends have trouble walking & chewing gum at the same time.
That is not what happened. They set up the consist, it ran fine for a while, and then the system quit when they turned off the consist. One of them had to go to Intermountain, who made the engine, to figure out that the system reset the decoder address to 003, and had to spend almost five hours to get it fixed. MRC just said that they did not know what happened, and could not help. They are now both going to use Digitrax or NCE. To conclude, the systems messed up the decoder addresses.
CNR378 Truck: NS5050: I have not had either of these systems, but two of my friends have had the MRC Prodigy Advance2, and both of them quit. They both became messed up when trying to run consists, or a few engines at once. I would definitely go with the NCE system because MRC has had multiple issues after less than a year. I am sorry to hear your freinds got all messed up and quit becuase they could figure out how to use a very simple MRC prod. adv. consist set up. It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds. TRUCK. I am curious Truck as to why you purposely misquoted so it doesn't sound like the PA2s failed.
Truck: NS5050: I have not had either of these systems, but two of my friends have had the MRC Prodigy Advance2, and both of them quit. They both became messed up when trying to run consists, or a few engines at once. I would definitely go with the NCE system because MRC has had multiple issues after less than a year. I am sorry to hear your freinds got all messed up and quit becuase they could figure out how to use a very simple MRC prod. adv. consist set up. It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds. TRUCK.
NS5050: I have not had either of these systems, but two of my friends have had the MRC Prodigy Advance2, and both of them quit. They both became messed up when trying to run consists, or a few engines at once. I would definitely go with the NCE system because MRC has had multiple issues after less than a year.
I have not had either of these systems, but two of my friends have had the MRC Prodigy Advance2, and both of them quit. They both became messed up when trying to run consists, or a few engines at once. I would definitely go with the NCE system because MRC has had multiple issues after less than a year.
I am sorry to hear your freinds got all messed up and quit becuase they could figure out how to use a very simple MRC prod. adv. consist set up. It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds.
TRUCK.
I am curious Truck as to why you purposely misquoted so it doesn't sound like the PA2s failed.
MRC decoders may suck, but their DCC systems are solid. Hard to beleive 2 systems failed because of consisting as you stated.
Truck.
simon1966 Truck: . It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds. That might be the problem. My 12 year old builds consists in a matter of seconds on our DT402 throttle. You didn't really mean minutes did you?
Truck: . It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds.
. It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds.
That might be the problem.
My 12 year old builds consists in a matter of seconds on our DT402 throttle. You didn't really mean minutes did you?
I am board with my MRC system it is so easy. Plus I have been considering upgrading to a newer system. I am not sure which one. It will be NCE or Digitrax. And JMRI comes to mind also.
But I have been so busy at work I haven't had time to mess with my trains mush. I even had to work today. Was at SF airport putting accelerator in concrete trucks as they rolled in then had to go to the Presidio in S.F. to fuel up those trucks for the work to be done tonite. I am supposd to be the mechanic. But we are so short handed they got me doing other jobs.
Oh well it is good for my train fund and the checks makes the wifey happy.
Truck NS5050: I have not had either of these systems, but two of my friends have had the MRC Prodigy Advance2, and both of them quit. They both became messed up when trying to run consists, or a few engines at once. I would definitely go with the NCE system because MRC has had multiple issues after less than a year. I am sorry to hear your freinds got all messed up and quit becuase they could figure out how to use a very simple MRC prod. adv. consist set up. It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds. TRUCK.
While I don't have much experience with the PA2, used it only on 4 occasions so far. I don't see much difference building Advance consist with the MRC when compare with NCE. For one thing NCE has more features, such as the ability to run the consist by the loco cab address and the built in ability to flip the consist at the end of the line. Other wise the MRC menu is a direct clone of the NCE one.
Jack W.
Truck . It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
NS5050 I have not had either of these systems, but two of my friends have had the MRC Prodigy Advance2, and both of them quit. They both became messed up when trying to run consists, or a few engines at once. I would definitely go with the NCE system because MRC has had multiple issues after less than a year.
You would be far better off NOT getting it from Walthers, even if they were a few bucks cheaper, which they are not. Not to say you would need it, but you would not get any support of note from them, compared to expert advice and support from any of the vendors that Tom mentions. Also plan on joining the NCE Yahoo group. I belong to the Digitrax group and find it to be an excellent source of advice, hints and tips and general information.
csx,
Here's a few places and prices on the NCE PH-Pro - in no particular order:
All are brick 'n mortar shops and all are VERY reputable dealers and ones that I have dealt with personally. TTE and Litchfield are also very good sources of DCC information. Deliver time has been extremely good from all of them.
Do keep in mind that you will also need a NCE P515 to power your PH Pro. Hope that helps...
csxbnsfbnrailway I think I will go with the NCE PH-PRO set (when on sale at walthers $438). Is this a good set?
I think I will go with the NCE PH-PRO set (when on sale at walthers $438). Is this a good set?
Yes, it is. But be sure to check prices elsewhere. You might (or might not) be able to do a little better pricewise.
Hi guys
thanks for the comments so far. I think I will go with the NCE PH-PRO set (when on sale at walthers $438). Is this a good set? As for the digitrax systems I don't think I want to go down that road.
thanks
tstageIf you plan on running larger consists and decide on the Power Cab, I would definitely go with the Smart Booster.
Tom, you know I just can't let that statement go by unscathed!
The PowerCab and SB3a combination is a very "un-economical" upgrade path that still leaves you with considerable restrictions. Rather than taking that route, you may want to consider the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra.
Here's why, using Tony's as a guide to “street price”:
Power-Cab: $155.95
SB3a: $127.96
Total: $283.91
Advantages: 5 amps of track power, two more throttles/devices, and you can unplug your original PowerCab throttle for use as a true walk-around.
Disadvantages: You lose the PowerCab's original 1.7 amps and programming track (unless you have a need to set them up elsewhere, but you can still only use your original PowerCab throttle on one system at a time), limit of only 4 throttles/devices, no way past that limit other than replacing your PowerCab/SB3a with a PowerPro, partially functional USB interface, cab addresses, very expensive considering all the inherent limitations (Don't you also need a power supply for the SB3a? Add another $46).
Zephyr Xtra: $179.95
Total: $179.95
Advantages: Control up to 20 loco addresses simultaneously, nearly unlimited ability to add “other” devices to the LocoNet, you don't lose the Zephyr's original 3 amps or programming track (or anything else) when you add boosters, FULL access to ALL LocoNet traffic via Digitrax PR3 or aftermarket LocoBuffer, no need to assign cab addresses, ability to add two jump throttles, comes with a power supply (in the US), wide range of 3rd party LocoNet devices available.
Disadvantages: Only 3 amps vs. the add-on, extra cost SB3a's 5 amps, and depending on your situation, the fixed location of the built-in throttle.
If I was just starting out, I know which one I'd get...
I try to stay away from these kinds of threads that are more like the ford vs chevy argument.
Another point that has not been discussed is the Power Cab will read any decoder that offers read back.
Mine is 8 years old now and still going strong. A five locomotive consist is nothing for it. When I first got mine I had 7 sound equipped and 4 non sound HO scale locomotives consisted and running. It also has double heading capabilities. You can consist a 3 loco set and consist another 2 loco set and then double head the 2 consists. Great for pushers on the hill.
Another plus is the built in amp meter. I use it for tuning up and diagnostics of locomotives. Easy to use is a miss statement. Just flipping through the quick start guide I have not looked at the manual since the day I unpacked it.
The only thing that has happened to my Power Cab was that the telco plug had lost its contacts. I fashioned a neat little tool for pulling the pins in the plug back into shape. The thing has been dropped, hung from the cord, and accidentally burned from a hot soldering iron. I take it to train shows with a test track for guys in the club to program their locos without having to shut down the Lenz powered layout.
It has served me very well and owes me nothing. If something were to happen to it I would get another without hesitation.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Something else that I would advise you to consider:
NCE is made in the U.S.A. and tech support is based in the U.S.A. (Webster, New York).
MRC is made in China and their tech support, in my experience, has been horrible. They "repaired" a Sounder decoder that was dead on arrival, and when I got it back is was more than just dead on arrival, it was so messed up that it becomes scorching hot within ten seconds and begins to smoke.
I suspect that the 5 loco consist, especially if these are sound will hit the limit of the PowerCab. I would also deduce from this that you will be speed matching a lot of locomotives. All I can say is this, the first time that you have all your locos nice and speed matched, and something happens and a decoder needs to be re-set, you will bless the day you made the decision to get a PC interface and Decoder Pro. The ability to save all your CV programming work in a file for a loco, that can be re-written back to the decoder with a few clicks of a mouse is a wonderful thing.
Yes, that is a different animal altogether. You have to add up the current draw from each locomotive in your consist. With a five-locomotive consist, you could possibly reach (or even pass) the 1.7A limit of the Power Cab - i.e. depending on how many locomotives are powered and/or how may come with sound.
If you plan on running larger consists and decide on the Power Cab, I would definitely go with the Smart Booster. If you go with the PA2, 3A should be ample.
csxbnsfbnrailway I wont have a locomotive const bigger that 5 locomotives.
I wont have a locomotive const bigger that 5 locomotives.
This is a horse of a different color. Is your question "how many trains can I control with the PowerCab at one time", or "how many multiple unit consists can I operate with the PowerCab at one time"?
Of the two, go with the NCE. You cna always expand it if you need more power. NCE will allow you to connect your computer and use JMRI, MRC can't do that. JMRI will come in VERY handy when programming decoders, especially sound ones with their plethora of CVs. If you have an iOS or ANdroid device, you can also use it to run trains via JMRI - giving you a second throttle (or more).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
[quote user="simon1966"]
"The actual limit to the number of locomotives that you can run is the power consumption. The available current in AMPS from the booster, divided by the amp draw of each loco. That's it, so whoever told you that the PowerCab can only control 2 locomotives has no idea what they are talking about."
I found that on another online form. Maybe I'm not helping without showing the layout design. It can be found here http://www.walthers.com/page/CCBR.pdf . Off of the straight away, I plan on having a helix to a lower level, a yard. The helix will be a 2% grade approximately. I wont have a locomotive const bigger that 5 locomotives. Also there will be different grades on the layout. Maybe it's all about preference? I plan on using NCE decoders and any decoders that come with any DCC locomotives.
Any help?
Recall stack is one of those features that you either like and use, or don't bother with. I am quite content hitting LOCO 1234 LOCO to choose the loco I want to run than having to twiddle the knob to select a locomotive. I never have to think "is this still in the stack or not?" It is 6 presses and I can select any locomotive on the layout. All the systems work in essentially the same way.
The actual limit to the number of locomotives that you can run is the power consumption. The available current in AMPS from the booster, divided by the amp draw of each loco. That's it, so whoever told you that the PowerCab can only control 2 locomotives has no idea what they are talking about.
In reality the number of locos that you can run is more likely constrained by the physical characteristics of the layout and your ability to control the trains.
csxbnsfbnrailway I've heard that the NCE will only allow you to run 2 locomotives at once no mater what.
I've heard that the NCE will only allow you to run 2 locomotives at once no mater what.
Not entirely true. The Power Cab has the power to run more than two locomotives at a time. What it is limited to is a maximum of two (2) locomotives in the recall stack, which is what I quoted earlier.
The limited recall stack of the Power Cab was never a deal breaker for me. Keeping track of two locomotives simultaneously is quite enough for my brain to handle and it's something I only need to do on occasion.
With the Smart Booster I now have a recall stack of 3 (up to 6). Anymore than 4 I find becomes monotonous having to cycle through the recall stack to get to the locomotive number I want. It then becomes quicker for me to just press the SELECT LOCO button, punch in the loco number, and press ENTER. Again, not a deal breaker for me.
NCE decoders will work fine with any DCC system.
I've heard that the NCE will only allow you to run 2 locomotives at once no mater what. Also I plan on using NCE decoders.
Thank you for all the replies so far