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okay... i'm letting the but bite me, but I have some questions (about DCC)

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  • Member since
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  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Monday, October 6, 2008 10:12 PM
I found out about a year ago that I'm not crazy about sound. I've had one sound loco. Now one of my friends has it.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
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Running Bear Enterprises
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beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by DeadheadGreg on Thursday, October 9, 2008 2:59 PM

okay, this might be a really dumb question...  but are different companies controller/throttles interchangeable at all? 

I ask, just because, after fiddling with the throttle for my Prodigy Express and having used my MRC Tech II power pack, I find that I like the circle throttle design more, as opposed to the NCE throttle, which you roll forwards, away from you to speed up, and backwards, towards you, to slow down.  With this, you only need one hand.  I think i like the idea of using both hands with the throttle, one hand holding the controller, and the other managing the actual throttle on the controller. 

 

bahhhh...  decisions decisions. 

PHISH REUNION MARCH 6, 7, 8 2009 HAMPTON COLISEUM IN HAMPTON, VA AND I HAVE TICKETS!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! [quote user="jkroft"]As long as my ballast is DCC compatible I'm happy![/quote] Tryin' to make a woman that you move.... and I'm sharing in the Weekapaug Groove Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world....
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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, October 9, 2008 5:35 PM

Even if a DCC equipped engine is run on pure DC, the motor is still getting pulse power like when it is run on DCC. The chips on the decoder develop the pulses just like when the decoder sees pulses from the DCC controller.

It is best to run them on pure DC, not power packs with pulse power. Not my opinion.

I use a NCE Power Cab for my own layout. Does eveything I want.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, October 9, 2008 9:21 PM
I do not believe that is true - that when running a decoder-equipped loco on pure DC it sends pulse power to the motor. When the decoder's CPU sees a lack of the DCC preamble, and if analog conversion is turned on, it opens up the H-bridge circuit that drives the motor - so the motor is essentially connected directly to the track, minus a few diode junction drops. The actual 'pulse' drive a motor gets from a decoder comes from the CPU turning on the motor drive for only a portion of the DCC waveform - the faster the speed the longer it stays on, for a greater average DC voltage across the motor. For non-high frequency drive (supersonic, silent drive, everyone has their own name for it), it simply switches the motor on and off in time to the actual DCC signal, which can result in audible frequency generation. Silent drive decoders perform this switching at a speed above the normal audible range of human ears.

Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by DeadheadGreg on Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:01 PM
does anyone have anything specifically BAD to say about MRC's Prodigy Express?
PHISH REUNION MARCH 6, 7, 8 2009 HAMPTON COLISEUM IN HAMPTON, VA AND I HAVE TICKETS!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! [quote user="jkroft"]As long as my ballast is DCC compatible I'm happy![/quote] Tryin' to make a woman that you move.... and I'm sharing in the Weekapaug Groove Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world....
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Posted by fwright on Monday, October 13, 2008 9:26 AM

 DeadheadGreg wrote:
does anyone have anything specifically BAD to say about MRC's Prodigy Express?

Not bad per se, but limitations (important to me):

Prodigy Express will not read CVs, but will write them.  Means you need to keep a notebook of CVs written to a particular decoder.  A workaround is to add Prodigy Advance/Advance 2 remote throttle as 2nd controller.  All Advance/Advance 2 features become available on the 2nd throttle.

No computer interface available to substitute Decoder Pro for tracking, reading, and writing CVs.  Workaround (more expensive than others) is to add SPROG system to use Decoder Pro.

Current output from booster is limited (1.7 amps I believe).  Enough for a small layout, but will run out of power for more than 3 sound-equipped locos.

If you can get the PE at the right price - it's a huge step up from the cheaper Bachmann EZ.  But Zephyr, ProCab, and Prodigy Advance2 do a lot more - for how much extra money?  To me it's a value trade-off.  If I could get a PE for less than $100, I'd probably go down that road.  Otherwise, one of the other systems starting at $140-$160 starts looking better (PA2 is closer to $200 street price).

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, October 13, 2008 11:16 AM

 Speaking of Prodigy - in the recent MRC ad in the latest MR, it mentions "computer interface with PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE". Please, PLEASE tell me MRC is not so stupid as to make their computer itnerface work with only software they supply. Such a bonehead move would preclude you from using JMRI, RR&Co, and all the others that work with multiple systems.

 

                            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Monday, October 13, 2008 12:28 PM
CV readback nakes life so much easier. It's one of the reasons I got the Digitrax DCS50.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by NeO6874 on Monday, October 13, 2008 2:32 PM

 jeffrey-wimberly wrote:
CV readback nakes life so much easier. It's one of the reasons I got the Digitrax DCS50.

 

That's the "Digitrax Zephyr" if you're not familiar with their part numbers...

 

I would have to agree being ablt to read CV's is really helpful -- esp if a loco starts acting crazy for no apparent reason (and it doesn't have a MRC decoder in it Wink [;)])

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Monday, October 13, 2008 5:32 PM
 NeO6874 wrote:

 jeffrey-wimberly wrote:
CV readback nakes life so much easier. It's one of the reasons I got the Digitrax DCS50.

 

That's the "Digitrax Zephyr" if you're not familiar with their part numbers...

 

I would have to agree being ablt to read CV's is really helpful -- esp if a loco starts acting crazy for no apparent reason (and it doesn't have a MRC decoder in it Wink [;)])

Yeah, you only have to make ONE incorrect entry and things can get really interesting. Don't ask me how I know. Having the readback capability made it easy to find the error. Now I double check entries after I enter them.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Delmar, NY
  • 671 posts
Posted by DeadheadGreg on Monday, October 13, 2008 9:32 PM

so, are CV's things that you program, like... say, for instance, having a 128 speed-step instead of like, i don't know...  64 step response? 

i'm still way stumped on CV's.  i know it stands for configuration variables, but why do I need them? 

This is what i want to do:  Park each of my engines on the programming track, or on the main, one at a time, and program their road # into my system.  Once this is done, i want to be able to select individual locos, as well as consist them.  Thats pretty much it...  I'm not concerned about sound right now, but i think i'm going to hardwire a harness into my engines so that they can become sound-equipped at a later date. 

I'm not even really concerned about the headlights...  what is there that DCC could do?  Is there like, differen't....  patterns that light would flash with?  Or isn't it just that they're direction-specific and lit for whichever direction you're going? 

PHISH REUNION MARCH 6, 7, 8 2009 HAMPTON COLISEUM IN HAMPTON, VA AND I HAVE TICKETS!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! [quote user="jkroft"]As long as my ballast is DCC compatible I'm happy![/quote] Tryin' to make a woman that you move.... and I'm sharing in the Weekapaug Groove Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world....
pn6
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Posted by pn6 on Monday, October 13, 2008 10:08 PM

Hi All

When I went to the National Train Show I walked up to the guys from Tony's and asked them point blank "Why would I choose one system over another?" He handed me an NCE controler and said "Tell me you couldn't run a train with this having never done it before" (which was right because I haven't ...yet!) I looked at it for a moment and realized that I probably COULD run a train with very little effort.

I see the similarities between the NCE and the MRC so I asked him about the MRC and he had no answer because they had no experience with it. Has anyone used the MRC Prodigy Wireless???  I think it's cheaper but is it good? MRC has always had good power packs and reputation so I'm figuring they still know what they are doing with DCC as well.

 

Paul

 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, October 13, 2008 10:11 PM

 CVs are like pigeonholes - think like mailboxes if you don't know what pigeonholes are Big Smile [:D] . The contents of each oen tells the decoder to do something. There are some standard ones defined in the NMRA specifications, and then there are many that vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. You need to knwo at least alittle about CVs because CVs tell the deocder what address it responds to, how much power it will send to the motor at speed step 1, whether it uses a 'short' 2-digit address or a 'long' 4 digit address, if the decoder will work on DC as well as DCC, what happens to the headlight when you go in reverse, how long it will take the loco to speed up and slow down if you just jerk the throttle wide open, and so on.

 At first all you really need worry about is the address - once you have everything running you can start to tweak the operation of individual locos.

 

                                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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