DCC or DC Powered Tortoise Switches Preferred?

[Capt. Grimek]

I'm looking at getting at least 6 Tortoise switches for my 8X17ft. layout just getting underway.
I've considered Hare/Wabbit DCC control units or the new snail (?). I've also read some older threads
that most felt DCC control of tortoises from a throttle was inconvenient, not much fun and kind of a pain
as opposed to pushing a switch for DC panel control.

Is this still the general consensus? I figured I could order Tortoises and always make the DCC control decision later. I plan on a digitrax Zephyr or Chief., using an additional DT400 throttle (for consisting/doubling). If I DCCed my switches would I need at least a 5 amp system? (I plan on running 4 to 5 trains with sound during sessions.)

Obviously DC Tortoises will be a cheaper option but wonder if I'll be missing any advantages that will make
the DCC control worthwhile on a small layout. (Less wiring/soldering)? The switch motors are for hidden out of reach turnouts.
I'll use ground throws everywhere else.

Thanks.

[Last Chance]

The tortoises themselves are thrown with a 9 volt battery or equivilant analog power. They are stall motor switches that stop and turn off when they reach the end of the throw.

You can use a toggle to send a analog DC signal to the tortoise this way.

DCC gets a bit complicated. Basically you are now tying that manual old fashioned toggle to a loconet or similar electronic network of cables and modules. They sit and wait for thier address to be called up to throw the tortoise at that address.

I use a digitrax DS-64 to throw a few Kato switches. I input the command "Switch one, throw" into my DT400 and hit enter. The Command Station hears that command and routes it to the DS-64. Then that module knows which is switch number one and sends a brief 1/2 second pulse of power to that switch and it will throw.

Tortoise motors can be tied into DCC using interfaces such as the Hare. It is a bit pricey to do it this way. If you only had a few switches go for it.

Now.

Your switches will require thier own power system independant of the DCC Track BUS power and independant from any other power such as building lighting. I use a wall wart to drive the DS-64.

Finally but not last.... consider this:

My Kato is bi-polar... two wires. Tortoises can be three wire common ground.

Usually a DCC switch throwing module can be wired either way, but needs to be done correctly to suit whatever motor you are using to throw a switch on the railroad.

By the time I take a Tortoise, Hare and a DCC module to throw them with... alot of money has been spent. I suppose it is a brave new world and alot of fun.

Some folks prefer to throw the switches manually with toggles next to the track; faster than punching key commands into the throttle. I like to use toggles myself to make switching faster. DT400 throttles are 140 dollars or roughly each. So, having one throttle to throw switches and one to throw the engine isnt an option at the moment.

For lots of switching under a intense trackwork... vote for Toggle switches at the general area where the track switches are.

For lots of mainline run without very much switching, DCC might actually be better as you can throw and verify that switch way over yonder without walking two miles to eyeball it.

Some modules can provide feedback by reading the position of the switch (Thrown or Closed) and let you know in a variety of ways such as signalling to the throttle or to a track side signal wired to it.

Are we having fun yet?

Finally, the amps of your system is going to flow into the engines on your track. I keep my DS64 switch modules on thier own wallwart (PS-12 I believe) in groups of 4... totally independant from the DCC's own command station and track power.

However, the house provides up to 15 amps at the wall outlet for 120 volts. I need to be careful not to pull much more than 12 at any one time to anything in the room from one outlet.

[jbinkley60]

 

I have 30+ Tortoises, most controlled with Digitrax DS64s.  I have no issue punching in a switch command on the DT400 and having routes negates not using manual controls on a control panel.  The nice thing about the DS64s is that you can still utilize push buttons on the control panel, if you'd like.  It can support both.  Not having them really cleans up a control panel.

The only switches you see are block power switches and those really could be eliminated, since this is now DCC.

 

[locoworks]

 depending on your track and how you have the points sectioned??  ( if you modify them them to what is refered to as 'dcc friendly' in a lot of places ) using DCC with tortoises does not have to involve expensive hares and wabbits or the like.  the method requires the use of points with an over centre spring like peco.  you install the motor as normal and use one of the spdt switch contacts to feed the frog from the appropriate rail as if it is 'dcc friendly' ? the frog is completely isolated from the blades which themselves are wired to their respective running rail that they close to.  you can then power the motor using a lenz LS150 or any point decoder that can give a pulse long enough to throw the point.  9 the ls150 can give a 10 second pulse )the LS150 needs the diodes fitted in line with the feeds to the tortoise so the AC is effectively rectified to a DC supply that is effectively polarity reversable by the ls150.  although the tortoise is usually used with DC power switched to it all the time ( hence the term 'stall type', in other words the motor inside it is always powered and is trying to turn but is stalled ), it can with points with an over centre spring have the power switched off to it and it will for all intents and purposes stay put without the power. some of the tension in the operating arm will try and move the tortoise gears back a bit, and they will just, but the point will remain in possition and the frog will still get the appropriate power as the slight movement in the tortoise at loss of power is not enough to affect the spst auxillary swithes.   if you set up one to try and use proper DC instead of the LS150 to feed it, when you disconnect the power you will hear a slight noise as thye gear train 'relaxes', and if you put the power back on in the same polarity you will hear the motor tension up the geartrain again.   the other advantage of this system is that even with 50 tortoise machines that usually stall and are drawing current from the power supply, you only need a power supply capable of throwing a few points at a time or if you have routes set, how ever points are in the route. but basically a 500ma supply feeding all your LS150's outputs should do. another thing to consider is that the operating wire supplied with the tortoise can be not rigid enough to throw points with a strong over centre spring and may need replacing with a slightly heavier gauge wire ( i had to ) it also makes setting the tortoise up easier cos it will move the blades over if not centred correctly underneath the board, ( it still has to be close to centre though )

 what this system can't do is use the actual feed to the tortoise to power LED's in a route indicator panel. ( the ones that light dim while the motor is moving and light bright in the panel once the motor is stalled )  the spare spdt contacts on the tortoise can be used though,but it means running wires back to the panel from the point motors.

[cacole]

The tortoises themselves are thrown with a 9 volt battery or equivilant analog power. They are stall motor switches that stop and turn off when they reach the end of the throw.

Sorry, but that's not correct.  A Tortoise stall motor needs constant voltage, and does not turn off at the end of its throw. 

Quoting from the Tortoise instruction sheet:  "The motor in the Tortoise is powered continuously and merely stalls out at the end of the throw.  The motor will not be harmed by continuous application of 12 volts DC or less."

[locoworks]

The tortoises themselves are thrown with a 9 volt battery or equivilant analog power. They are stall motor switches that stop and turn off when they reach the end of the throw.

Sorry, but that's not correct.  A Tortoise stall motor needs constant voltage, and does not turn off at the end of its throw. 

Quoting from the Tortoise instruction sheet:  "The motor in the Tortoise is powered continuously and merely stalls out at the end of the throw.  The motor will not be harmed by continuous application of 12 volts DC or less."

sort of correct, it is designed to be used with constant voltage, but as i posted, they can be used without constant voltage in certain circumstances.  the type that 'switch off' the power at the end of their travel are the fulgerex / lemaco type of slow motion point motor.  there is no chance of this type being sprung back a bit by any type of point ( even hand made ) because they use a worm and wheel and not a mass of spur gears.

[MisterBeasley]

I use a control panel with toggles.  I'm using twin-coil machines, but the principle is the same.

I have a small layout, a 5x12 table, but quite a few turnouts.  All are powered, and some are down in the subway tunnels where they can't be seen.  For the hidden ones, I've wired up position indicator lights using two-color LEDs.  For the rest, I can just eyeball them and don't need the complexity of extra wiring.

I see two problems with using DCC for throwing turnouts.  First, I'd have to remember the address of every turnout.  Sure, I could consult a diagram mounted on the fascia, but if I need to do that, why not put a toggle on the diagram like I've already got?  The other problem is going through a sequence of pushbuttons to throw the toggle.  While you're doing this, you momentarily, at least, are not in control of your train.  On a small layout like mine, that matters.  I've found that even running two trains can be a challenge if you have to switch control back and forth and actively operate both of them.  More complexity makes accidents far more likely.

[baron9]

 My 24x32 feet layout had about 30 switches and were controlled by toggle switches. One night while operating I went to throw a switch and it did'nt work. I checked all the wiring and found everything was intact. I the  threw another switch and that did'nt work either. I had some kind of short and did not know where to look first. My local hobby shop suggested that I start with one switch and work my way down to where I found the short. After many attempts I called back the hobby shop and they suggested I try the Switch 8 from NCE Corp. The Switch8 gets its power from the track power using two wires to the Switch8,then two wires to the tortoise machine. I then programed it into my throttle and was off and running in about 5 minutes. No more toggle switches for me and no more frustration with short circuits. Just my thoughts.

[Last Chance]

The tortoises themselves are thrown with a 9 volt battery or equivilant analog power. They are stall motor switches that stop and turn off when they reach the end of the throw.

Sorry, but that's not correct.  A Tortoise stall motor needs constant voltage, and does not turn off at the end of its throw. 

Quoting from the Tortoise instruction sheet:  "The motor in the Tortoise is powered continuously and merely stalls out at the end of the throw.  The motor will not be harmed by continuous application of 12 volts DC or less."

Stall out, turn off, same result.

I used the 9 volt battery example because I was trained to use such a battery to test Tortoises, you can throw dozens of them during testing to weed out the ones which dont pass muster.

[Paul3]

Capt. Grimek,
Pesonally, I wouldn't use the Wabbit or Hare as they are way over-priced compared to Digitrax DS44's and other types of stationary decoders provided you just want to throw switches.  However, the Hare/Wabbit do have their uses (read up about them on Tony's website: www.tonystrains.com).

As for the general question of whether to have them controlled by DCC or by other means, the answer is: "It depends."  Are you always going to be walking with your train?  Can your toggles be located near the switches?  Are you going to have a dispatcher, and is he going to be located in the same room?  Essentially, if you have a need to throw a switch when you're no where near it, then making them run by DCC is the better option.  That being said, I would not DCC a yard or something similar where you're constantly throwing switches back and forth.  Toggles are far faster for that.  But for mainline switches and sidings, DCC is a nice option.

No, you would not need a 5 amp system if you put in stationary decoders.  The Zephyr can handle it all by itself for a limited number of switches.  However, it might become a problem if you add 100 Tortoise machines, or something like that.  Overall, it's best if the stationary decoders are powered off a seperate power supply.  The more expensive DS54 or DS64 decoders can take power from a wall transformer, while the cheaper DS44 cannot.  BTW, you might need a 5 amp or 8 amp system if you plan on running 5 trains all with sound at the same time.  If each train has one sound engine, you'll probably be okay.  But if each train has 2 or 3 sound engines on it, you will run out of power with the Zephyr.

Last Chance,
Tortoise machines don't "turn off".  They are stall motors, so even when stopped, they are still taking power.  They are also 12vdc machines, not 9vdc.  Batteries are only for testing, not for actual layout use.  I've never had a Tortoise machine not "pass muster".  I've never even had one fail...other than that one that got drilled through by someone doing some electrical work.  You'd think he would have stopped when he hit green plastic, but nooooo... 

You don't hit "ENTER" when throwing a switch with a DT400.  You hit "SWCH", then punch in the switch number, then hit "t" or "c" to "throw" or "clear" the switch.  The switch then moves without hitting "ENTER".

Stationary decoders do not require their own power supply.  It's good practice to do so, but it is not needed.  They can be powered using the track bus just like mobile decoders. 

Why would a Tortoise be "three wire common ground"?  You only need two wires for a Tortoise, as you're just reversing the polarity.  The only time you need more than two wires is if you're wiring up a crossover that uses two Tortoise machines and you're throwing it with a DS54 or DS64.  You also need two resistors on that third wire as it adds power to the circuit so as to throw both machines at 12vdc.  I've installed literally hundreds of Tortoise machines at my club layout, and I've never used a 3rd wire for any other reason.

Why would anyone want a DT400 to run the train and another to throw switches?  The same throttle can do both jobs literally at the same time.

MisterBeasley,
With Digitrax and the DT400 throttle, you do not lose control of your train while throwing stationary decoders (but that does happen with older throttles like the DT100).  Likewise, the DT400 throttle can control two trains at the same time with ease because of it's twin throttle knobs.  I don't recommend it, but at least both trains can be controlled at exactly the same time.

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

[locoworks]

  

Why would a Tortoise be "three wire common ground"?  You only need two wires for a Tortoise,

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

 i think the 3 wire bit has come into the equation for when you us 2 DC power supplies and SPDT switches to control the tortoise.  

[gandydancer19]

I think it depends on your layout and how you operate it. I have an around the walls layout and I throw my turnouts as I come to them. (Most are manual, at least where I can reach them.) I also have a rule: Leave the turnout set for the mainline when finished using it. If you have a 4x8 layout on a table, or more centralized switching areas, maybe a central control panel or two would work better.

Connecting turnouts to the DCC bus also allows them to be operated by a computer. It was also supposed to be helpful in eliminating some wiring and control panels, but I am not sure about the wiring part. I have DCC, but all of my tortoise turnouts are DC controlled. (Even though I am a retired electronics tech., I don't always go in for the latest and greatest gizmos just because someone says it is.)

However, if you do decide to install DCC controlled turnouts, and you wire them to the track bus for power or control, when a train shorts the DCC bus out and it is across a turnout, you can't throw the turnout.

[maxman]

 

However, if you do decide to install DCC controlled turnouts, and you wire them to the track bus for power or control, when a train shorts the DCC bus out and it is across a turnout, you can't throw the turnout.

Well, not always correct.  If you install a Tony's type breaker between the command station and the track buss, and then tap off ahead of the breaker for the turnout power, you will still have turnout power while the breaker takes care of the actual track short.

[gandydancer19]

 

However, if you do decide to install DCC controlled turnouts, and you wire them to the track bus for power or control, when a train shorts the DCC bus out and it is across a turnout, you can't throw the turnout.

Well, not always correct.  If you install a Tony's type breaker between the command station and the track buss, and then tap off ahead of the breaker for the turnout power, you will still have turnout power while the breaker takes care of the actual track short.

OK, I will buy that.  But now the wiring becomes more complicated.

[jbinkley60]

I think it depends on your layout and how you operate it. I have an around the walls layout and I throw my turnouts as I come to them. (Most are manual, at least where I can reach them.) I also have a rule: Leave the turnout set for the mainline when finished using it. If you have a 4x8 layout on a table, or more centralized switching areas, maybe a central control panel or two would work better.

Connecting turnouts to the DCC bus also allows them to be operated by a computer. It was also supposed to be helpful in eliminating some wiring and control panels, but I am not sure about the wiring part. I have DCC, but all of my tortoise turnouts are DC controlled. (Even though I am a retired electronics tech., I don't always go in for the latest and greatest gizmos just because someone says it is.)

However, if you do decide to install DCC controlled turnouts, and you wire them to the track bus for power or control, when a train shorts the DCC bus out and it is across a turnout, you can't throw the turnout.

With the DS64s you have the option of DC power or track power.  I find that they actually reduces the amount of wiring, especially no more diode matricies etc.  If I want to reprogram a route, I just select the route address and change the switch sequences. 

 

 

[Capt. Grimek]

Thank you everyone, as alway, learned a LOT. I'm ordering Tortoises (10) of them and will decide later whether to go DCC or DC. Looking forward to reading more discussion here if there is more to say.
I'm ordering from Cherry Creek. Has anyone had good luck with them regarding orders/service?
I need to check out digitrax's stationary decoders and read up on them.

Question: The sound locos only use up amperage if they are actively sounding right? Or do the "non triggered" sound decoders still soak up amperage for a Zephyr's 2.5 amp when the loco picks up the track power? Is the sound decoder always "on", drawing amperage from the power supply?

Paul, regarding your comment about operating two trains with both knobs on a DT400 not being recommended?
I intend using them for consisting/double heading/pushers, etc. Would you normally give both locos the same address and use one knob only or use a knob for each loco?

What do you normally do when running two trains yourself?

And finally, I DO need a DT400 to throw DCC turnouts, with radio with either a Zephyr or a Super Chief system, correct?
Thanks.

[locoworks]

Thank you everyone, as alway, learned a LOT. I'm ordering Tortoises (10) of them

it may be worth buying a box of 12 instead of only 10, they can be bought in 6's and 12's and they work out a bit cheaper.  shop around, you may find a 12 pack for the cost of, or only slightly more than 10 singles.

[jbinkley60]

Thank you everyone, as alway, learned a LOT. I'm ordering Tortoises (10) of them and will decide later whether to go DCC or DC. Looking forward to reading more discussion here if there is more to say.
I'm ordering from Cherry Creek. Has anyone had good luck with them regarding orders/service?
I need to check out digitrax's stationary decoders and read up on them.

Question: The sound locos only use up amperage if they are actively sounding right? Or do the "non triggered" sound decoders still soak up amperage for a Zephyr's 2.5 amp when the loco picks up the track power? Is the sound decoder always "on", drawing amperage from the power supply?

Paul, regarding your comment about operating two trains with both knobs on a DT400 not being recommended?
I intend using them for consisting/double heading/pushers, etc. Would you normally give both locos the same address and use one knob only or use a knob for each loco?

What do you normally do when running two trains yourself?

And finally, I DO need a DT400 to throw DCC turnouts, with radio with either a Zephyr or a Super Chief system, correct?
Thanks.

With the DT400 you can run multiple trains and still throw switches without losing control of the trains.  I do it all the time.  Consists make no difference.  Once you build the consist you are only going to use one knob that has the top address for the consist lead locomotive.  You don't have to have a DT400 but do realize that the UT4 throttles cannot throw a switch.  Digitrax left that function off.  You can throw a switch from the Zephyr with the switch button.  Some find it easier with the DT400.  I would tend to agree.

 

[Capt. Grimek]

Thanks very much Jeff. I thought one could switch with just the Zephyr, from reading the online manual,
but wanted to be certain I was understanding that correctly. Gives me some intermediate options $-wise
then.

[Last Chance]

Anything that is electrically powered on your railroad and connected to your control system uses amps.

What I had in mind was the rush of amps on first power up times number of sound/DCC engines you have on the railroad as they boot up.

I think you will like the Tortoise very much. Keep in mind some cheap switches will break at the points eventually above the Tortoise throw rod. However, not much big deal as the repairs or replacement is not a big deal.

I was going to mention that the UT4 does not have switch throwing ability. However we used it on a layout that had tortoises tied to toggles at local panels.

[Capt. Grimek]

Sorry, Last Chance. I'm still not sure what you mean by "booted up" regarding sound locos. Is that with sound activated (making sounds) or just firin' them up and the "dormant" sound decoder is pulling power
from the power system?

By the way, seeing as I've got now idea how many and if I'll ever DCC control turnouts, signals, etc.
and will be holding sessions with as many as four people (4 trains-5 trains), I went ahead and ordered the
Super Chief radio system I figured by the time I added a DT400 and radio and one more hand controller,
I'd end up in the same cost range anyway. I hope it's not going to be insane overkill for an 8'X17' layout, but even if I can't run 120 locos, I figured the 5 amps, radio control of trains running in long tunnels and
the use of the DT radio throttle at round robin operating sessions would be worth it. Expensive mistake or
something I'll likely make good use of...what do you think? I'd have gone with the Empire Builder but wanted CV readback...

So, Tortoises on their way and I'll keep watching here to decide how DCC Turnout control fits my economic
picture by the time I'm ready to install them. Still not sure if the visual prompts of coming across obvious
DC toggles on a panel/facia as reminders yet have more wiring to solder and run is going to be my best course or if I can't live without auto turnout stop/throw of the Wabbits during a meet, etc. Seems like a nice accident preventer. Not sure it's gonna be worth $300 though! I might NEED those visual prompters. ("Oh, there's a switch I have to throw"!)

[Paul3]

Capt. Grimek,
What "Last Chance" is saying is that most if not all sound decoders have a "keep alive" capacitor wired hot to the rail.  This acts as a battery, and so allows the sounds to continue across dirty sections of track for very short periods of time.

The problem is that caps must charge every time they are powered, which means every time they are on powered track.  This is called "in rush" current.  The in rush current is short in duration, but high in amperage (compared to normal operation).  If you have many sound engines with caps in one block when you turn the power on, all the caps will try to charge at once...and this can lead to tripping the circuit breaker.  The same goes from when your system recovers from a short cicuit.  If you have problems with in rush current, you need either more power, fewer engines, or a circuit breaker that reduces in rush current.

I don't recommend running two trains at once on a layout, generally because in my experience it's hard to look at and control two trains at the same time.

Helpers, OTOH, are quite different.  I've used them many times at my club, and once in a while at home.  It's a lot of fun to run both the head end and the rear from two throttle knobs on a DT400R because it takes some skill to do so.  I would not recommend MU'ing the front and rear, BTW.  Especially for long trains, it's probably best to seperately control them.

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

[Capt. Grimek]

Thank you Paul. Your answers are always so concise yet easy for beginners/laymen to understand.
You are an excellent teacher!

[Last Chance]

Thank you Paul3, it helps much.

All I know is that several steam and a bunch of desiels pull power when I flip that switch HISSSS! and CHUGG!

Might call my line the HissingChug Road or some such.

[ogre427]

and will be holding sessions with as many as four people (4 trains-5 trains), I went ahead and ordered the
Super Chief radio system I figured by the time I added a DT400 and radio and one more hand controller,
I'd end up in the same cost range anyway.

    Don't Forget that With a Super Chief you will only have one throttle, so if you want to have four operators you will still need to buy three more throttles. That brings your "cost range" up a minimum of $300 (3 UT4Rs), and even more if you want DT400Rs. Had you gone with the Zephyr you could have gotten a comand station with fixed throttle, a radio receiver, a couple radio throttles, and a power supply for about the same money as the Super Chief. Also the Zephyr has 2 "jump ports" so you can use standard D.C. power packs as DCC throttles (Admittedly they are not the most convienent, but they will get you going untill you can afford to buy more "real" throttles). Also don't forget that if at a later date your layout out grows the capabilities of the Zephyr you can add boosters for more power or even upgrade to Super Chief specs by buying the DCS 100 and a power supply (you did order a power supply with your Super Chief?)

   I realize that you have already ordered your equipment and my intent is not to criticize your choice. The Super Chief is a great system and I'm sure you will love it. I am posting this more for other folks who read this thread and are wrestling with the Zephyr/Super Chief question.

[Capt. Grimek]

Yes, thanks ogre 247. My fellow operators are from a round robin sessions group I regularly get together
with so they'll have their own. I will have to get a UT radio (or plug in) throttle for the Mrs. though, for hopefully regular running with her. Time will tell.

I do appreciate your bringing up the point/reminder though, as it's easy for us beginners to not know what we'll need because we haven't had experience with DCC on our own layouts yet and it's twice as easy to forget what we just learned! ;-)

[jbinkley60]

 

Just keep in mind from my 8/31 post that a UT4 cannot throw a switch powered by a DCC stationary controller.  The UT4 are designed for running locomotives.  You'll need DT400s or panel switches with UT4s.  I do think Digitrax missed the long term value of adding this functionality when they designed the UT4.  I understand the users has a lot of say in its  features and design.

 

[Calflash]

I'm using DCC control of the Tortoises for my hidden trackage so I can take advantage of macros to throw all turnouts to a given track with one command. I will use more conventional DC wiring with DPDTs for the upper visible part of the layout.

 Cal

[bmbob]

I use the NCE Switch-its to power my Switch Master and Tortoises thru the System.  I also use the JMRI Panel pro software to control the layout when I have a dispatcher present.   Through the switch-it however, I have the ability to set up push buttons on the fascia panel on those switches that can be seen, and have Macros set up so that I can control the switches from any of the cabs on the hidden switches in the staging area.

 

Bob 

[[e-mail]]

Hello All,

My Tortoise SM's are all DCC-powered, however there's a bit more to deciding on whether to use Tortoise SM's than just simply whether to use DCC or DC power. My Harriman Standard Lines layout operates under TT&TO SP Prototype Standard Code rules, with SP prototype ABS signaling (no CTC) and some dark territory. I use ProTrak software to handle car orders, train build lists, switchlists, etc. Eventually, the regular 'bridge traffic' trains running across the layout between the staging yards, will be computer-dispatched/controlled by RR&Co computer-aided dispatching and train control software. The RR&Co software will control said bridge traffic movements through my Digitrax DCC system.

I've restricted the use of Tortoise SM's to just the dispatcher-controlled turnouts (i.e., those turnouts that control access to staging tracks and passing sidings along the various mainlines). The Tortoise SM's are directly actuated by Digitrax DS54 and DS64 stationary decoders. The DS54 and DS64 stationary decoders can be actuated by either keying in the SM address on a Digitrax throttle (I have 101 Tortoise SM's and this can get to be a royal pain in the ***) or by throwing a miniature "Armstrong" lever (i.e., HumpYard Purveyance) mounted on the layout fascia which in turn actuates a SPDT mini switch that is connected to the respective stationary decoder terminal - this provides for local control.

The balance of my turnouts (another 296 turnouts) are controlled manually by using the same type of fascia-mounted miniature Armstrong levers which in turn actuate BluePoint manual SM's. These turnouts are non-dispatcher-controlled (i.e., customer sidings/spurs, all tracks within yard limits. and interchange tracks) and include the manual interlocking junctions. The BluePoints have electrical contacts which can be used to power switch frogs and/or signals or as in the case of the fully-interlocked manual junctions, provide positive feedback to the RR&Co software so that an automated train doesn't run through an interlocking set against it.

The only reason that I'm using Tortoise SM's on the dispatcher-controlled turnouts, is that I eventually want to 'automate' the regular bridge traffic trains that run across the layout between the staging yards by using the aforementioned RR&CO software. Automating those regular trains will relieve the Operators of handling the less-interesting/challenging trains, thus letting the Operators run the locals and extras that originate (for the most part) 'on' the layout versus in staging. My desire for automating is partly because most of my Ops sessions will involve just me or 1-2 others (max 5 Operators at any one time) and automation will allow me to 'run alone' if need be without sacrificing the fun and enjoyment of staging meets/passes against regular trains plus the fact that automating the bridge traffic will be just like adding more Operators (except RR&Co software doesn't complain, or show up late and leave early like human Operators sometimes do ). If it were not for the desire to automate, then I'd just use the BluePoint SM's over the entire layout and dispense with the Tortoise SM's and their respective stationary decoders.

Hope this helps (or at least does not hinder! ),

Eric Berman
aka SPPalmdale - still OS'ing trains, hooping up TO's and throwing levers between SP Mile Posts 413.8 and 414.6