If Digitrax were looking to upgrade the Zephyr, The two things I would like to see are;
1. built in USB interface with the Soundloader hardware (internal PR3).
2. upgraded function control to 28 from the base station. With the decoder pro throttle, functions 0-28 can be transmitted thru the Zephyr, so it's only a matter of a software upgrade and adding the buttons to the base station.
Having sold, and used, both the Zephyr and the Power Cab, the first thing I noticed is that the zephyr is a more complete system.
Zephyr customers may eventually expand with extra throttles, USB, and/or wireless, but the base unit can handle most all their needs for even a room sized layout.
Power Cab buyers usally come back within a month or so to buy the auto-sw programming switch, because they have accidentlly reprogammed all their locos when they forgot to remove them, and power hungry sound locos quickly overpower the powercab, the base unit just can't cut the mustard on much more than a small (4x8 or two) layout, making the 3 amp smart booster and power supply almost a manditory upgrade.
davidmbedard wrote:As I say in the blog post, I'm happy with my Zephyr but I have been in the computer field for nearly 30 years and have worked as a teacher of computer programming for nearly 10 years. So I don't have a problem with a numeric display and numeric code programming. But I'm not representative of the average buyer.30 years? Wow, gentlemen, we have a founder of the computer among us!David B
As I say in the blog post, I'm happy with my Zephyr but I have been in the computer field for nearly 30 years and have worked as a teacher of computer programming for nearly 10 years. So I don't have a problem with a numeric display and numeric code programming. But I'm not representative of the average buyer.
30 years? Wow, gentlemen, we have a founder of the computer among us!
David B
David,
I actually have to side with Randall on this one. When I took Fortran in high school we had an IBM System 360 Mod 50 I believe it was, and I hate to say that was more than 30 years ago!
Steve
Randall_Roberts wrote:As for the Empire Builder, my take on that product is that it was simply retained as a mid-range product, dropping from the top spot, when the Super Chief was introduced. Conventional marketing wisdom is that you need three different levels of a product because most people will by the mid-range. I don't believe that has proved to be true with the EB though, as it is clearly inferior to the Zephyr in its inability to read CVs. I think most buyers are smart enough to go with the Zephyr at the low end or save up for the Super Chief if they need a more powerful system. I think they should improve the Zephyr, drop the EB entirely, and if they really think they need three levels come out with a new high-end product.
As for the Empire Builder, my take on that product is that it was simply retained as a mid-range product, dropping from the top spot, when the Super Chief was introduced. Conventional marketing wisdom is that you need three different levels of a product because most people will by the mid-range. I don't believe that has proved to be true with the EB though, as it is clearly inferior to the Zephyr in its inability to read CVs. I think most buyers are smart enough to go with the Zephyr at the low end or save up for the Super Chief if they need a more powerful system. I think they should improve the Zephyr, drop the EB entirely, and if they really think they need three levels come out with a new high-end product.
I agree with your thinking on the Empire Builder. It's a mid priced system that is easily put together by Digitrax by packing a DB150 booster and a throttle. For some reason, they have always included a command station in their 5 amp add on booster. The 8 amp version- DB200 does not have any command station ability.
However, your chronology is wrong. Empire Builder was and has never been the top end system. Chief has always been Digitrax' top system. DCS100 has been around for about 15 years. There have been a couple of "Chief" versions but the change in each was the included throttle. DB150, the heart of the Empire Builder wasn't introduced until 1998-99 to replace the former mid range "Big Boy" system. Zephyr was introduced several years later as a full featured starter set. One dealer I spoke to said "I don't know how we're going to sell these Empire Builders now". I believe he broke the sets up and sold them as individual components. At the time, MRC and Atlas has similar priced units and Zephyr competed well with them.
Frankly, I wouldn't purchase a new Zephyr model but I have a Chief as well as a Zephyr. Never been much for menu driven devices. Too many steps to get what most times a single command or a couple of keystrokes will get. I don't use a mouse very often either. Oh, and Zephyr is already a Chief compatible throttle.
Martin Myers
Randall_Roberts wrote:I have the LocoBuffer USB. Unfortunately I can't get it to work with my Mac...
I have the LocoBuffer USB. Unfortunately I can't get it to work with my Mac...
And you've been "working with computers" for how long!!??
Sheesh!
davidmbedard wrote: 30 years? Wow, gentlemen, we have a founder of the computer among us!David B
LOL David I took my first College courses in computer science back in 1967 this is 41 years ago. Does it makes me the creator of computer?
Jack W.
jalajoie wrote:I agree the interface of the NCE may be prettier and easier to a new user but that menu driven system get on my nerve, as to me, with a Digitrax Zephyr or a DT 400 throttle I can accomplish the same task faster with less key strokes than with any NCE system.
I agree the interface of the NCE may be prettier and easier to a new user but that menu driven system get on my nerve, as to me, with a Digitrax Zephyr or a DT 400 throttle I can accomplish the same task faster with less key strokes than with any NCE system.
Jack;
You make a very interesting point. In the early days of the Macintosh the argument against it was that the mouse-driven menus were slower than the IBM PC / MS DOS function keys. What this arguement failed to take into account was the learning curve required to reach the level of proficency required for PC users to actually operate the system faster than they could a Macintosh. Back in the day, I was well versed in both systems, as I had to support both in a large organization. I can tell you in all honesty the IBM PC required more than ten times the support that the Mac did for comparable numbers of users.
So you have led me an additional Zephyr improvement idea. Novice and Advanced Operator modes.
Best!
Jim;
Thank you for your well stated response. You make some important points that should be considered by anyone shopping for an entry level system.
I agree that whatever system you buy, it's a good idea to get a computer interface and use Decoder Pro. I have the LocoBuffer USB. Unfortunately I can't get it to work with my Mac, and the Windows notebook I had it hooked to has died.
Randell,
I too tough Digitrax was loosing it to NCE, the fact is Digitrax, is growing so fast they have to move to bigger facilities and hire more people.
I am a user/owner of both a Digitrax Zephyr and a NCE Power cab. I also use regularly a Super Chief Digitrax system at the local club and a NCE PhPro system at a club I am an operator.
The Zephyr is powering my modules and the Power Cab is only use when I operates on the NCE layout, otherwise it remains in its box.
I know you mean well with this poll however I don't see why Digitrax should improve the Z.
Most of the ideas you have put forth for 'improvements' have merit. I have been in DCC since 1994 and I have been using a Chief level system since it was introduced. Now, if the Zephyr would have been available years before, I suspect I would have a Zephyr system for my layout. I do not need 120 train capability - 10 is fine. What is interesting is that Zephyr really has a full function capability as a base command station. I think some folks get hung up on the built in throttle. When a DT400 is attached to the Loconet, you have excellent thottle/MU/programming capability.
Now, many folks new to DCC are familiar with the DC power packs like MRC makes - They will feel comfortable with this arrangement. They do not have to wire the Loconet cabling - just run trains. If they really want recall/easy MU/programming, they are going to buy at least 1 DT400 very soon.
As far as the Powercab - it is the new kid on the block, and has several years of technology in it that the Zephyr system does not. I agree that NCE's user interface is nice. But there are limitations with the Powercab too. Like in the base configuration, you cannot unplug the the Powercab throttle unless you buy the extra booster unit. The cost of a Powercab/3 amp booster/fascia panel and extra cab climbs very fast. And either system I would not buy unless I had a computer interface attachment. If you really want to program CV's, Decoder Pro is the way to go(and you need to purchase the adapters for both systems).
The other factor with DCC choice is what are other folks in your area using or what is the local club using? Our club uses Digitrax and every member has a DT400R, even though only about 1/2 of them have a layout or DCC system at home. If the local guys had NCE systems, I would have an NCE system as well.
Both the Zephyr and the Powercab are the best 'bang for the buck' starter systems I have seen. My feelings are that the next system from Digitrax will be a replacement for the EB - it does not even support CV readback and could really use a 'refresh'!
Jim Bernier
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
David, et. al.;
I am doing this poll because, despite what Digitrax owners believe, it is my observation that Digitrax is losing market share to NCE because of an inferior user interface. As I say in the blog post, I'm happy with my Zephyr but I have been in the computer field for nearly 30 years and have worked as a teacher of computer programming for nearly 10 years. So I don't have a problem with a numeric display and numeric code programming. But I'm not representative of the average buyer.
The selling points of the NCE power cab are its user interface and its ability to be used both as an all-in-one DCC system at home, and as a cab on a larger NCE based system. This is causing more and more clubs, it seems, to turn to NCE as an alternative to Digitrax.
The selling points of the Zephyr are superior track power output and larger locomotive roster. But when upgrading to the SuperChief the Zephyr becomes nothing more than an extra auto-reversing booster.
The argument that simply adding a DT400 to the Zephyr compensates for its deficiencies doesn't hold water. The Zephyr and PowerCab each go for around $150 street price. The DT400 goes for around $170. Adding the DT400 to the Zephyr more than doubles the cost, negating its cost-effectiveness as an entry-level system.
If Digitrax continues to lose market share, that isn't good for Digitrax users. The poll is to find out what direction people think Digitrax should take the Zephyr if they want to regain lost market share.
As a journalist I have to be objective. I can't write advice for beginners that says something like, "Get yourself a Digitrax Zephyr. I like mine so I'm sure it's the best choice for you."
Hard to improve on near perfection
but the one area of weakness the Zephyr has is it's inability to program
sound equipped decoders without the use of either a booster or blast mode programming
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
Does the DT400 give you menu driven programming? I'm not being a smart A... I have no experience with the DT400.
As for likeing it as it is because you're still learning the basics... might you like it better if it was easier to learn?
I like the Zepher just as it is, well only because I'm STILL learning the basics of mine.
Trainsrme1
Randall_Roberts wrote:I have written a blog post on my opinion of the current state of the Digitrax Zephyr, and some ideas about the direction Digitrax needs to take with this product. At the end of the post are three poll questions. I would be grateful if you would respond to this poll, and leave any comments you may have... either on the blog post, in the forum there, or in this thread.Does Digitrax Need to Upgrade the Zephyr?Thanks!
I wouldn't mind if Digitrax upgraded the Zephyr but I can't really see what they could upgrade other than to make it a two train controller system like their DT400s.
Irv
Thanks for the feedback. It's kind of hard to put those polls together, that's why I asked for comments.
I personally like the idea of a switcher mode for setouts and pickups, but if you're not doing those kinds of operations the option isn't particularly useful.
In retrospect I also should have asked about handheld vs. base station units. The fact that the PowerCab is a handheld is another big selling point for that unit.
It might be more accurate if you offered more choices...I'd be glad to see the Zephyr have the ability to do like MRC systems and toggle between say five different engine ID's, but I wouldn't want the "zero in the middle" switcher type control set-up. Your poll seems to combine them as one choice??
I used the jump-port when I first got the Zephyr, but not all my engines seemed to work well with it. Once I got a UT4 walkaround as a second controller, I quit using the jump-port. I wouldn't mind seeing them make a "Twin Zephyr" which would have two controllers in one box, kinda like an MRC Tech IV dualpack for DC. That might be usefull particularly for people just starting in DCC, but I could see situations where I would use it now.