Digitrax booster problem

[gmpullman]

I've recently been having a problem with my Digitrax boosters. It seems that for some reason one of them is reversing the track power and this is causing a short when I run an engine from one power district into another.
I have a DCS 150 and a DB 200+ that each feed one PS-4 circuit breaker. That gives me 8 power districts. (1-4 ; 5-8)
If I run an engine from district 2-3 there's no short but if I run from, say, 1 to 6 or 8 into 3 then there's a short going into the next district.

If I shut the boosters down and restart them everything is OK for a while then the problem occurs and does not go away!

I've checked all the "rail A - rail B" wiring and it is all properly connected.

If I put a test light across the rail gap it lights when it should not since rail A to A should be the same continuity.

When a short does occur the booster shuts down, NOT the PS-4.

I've been running the layout in the past with no problems and I don't know what would have changed to cause this problem? Any ideas?

Thanks, ED

[simon1966]

Ed, no bright ideas here. Inital thought was the A B issue from the 2 boosters as Digitrax have been know to reverse these. My DB150 and Zephyr are oposite for example. I think I would be tempted to contact Tonys for some support as they may have had experience with this situation.

I think that I would try and localize the problem either to the booster or the PS4 by taking the PS4 out of the circuit and powering the districts direct from the boosters to see if the problem persists.

[Anonymous]

Hi Ed.
I'm no expert on DCC, I'm still learning. I have a few questions to ask so can get a clear understanding of the situation.

QUOTE: by gmpullman

... That gives me 8 power districts. (1-4 ; 5-8) If I run an engine from district 2-3 there's no short but if I run from, say, 1 to 6 or 8 into 3 then there's a short going into the next district.

1) The short happens between boosters, not districts within the same booster. Right?

QUOTE:
If I shut the boosters down and restart them everything is OK for a while then the problem occurs and does not go away!

2) The problem is not consistent? Sometimes you can cross districts (between boosters) without shorting. But after a while it will?

QUOTE:
If I put a test light across the rail gap it lights (A to A)....

3) Between boosters? That means they're out of phase with each other. Right?

QUOTE:
When a short does occur the booster shuts down, NOT the PS-4.

It makes me think the thermo protection is shutting down the booster before the circuit breaker is tripped. Or that the circuit breaker in the boosters are more sensitive or a lower amp rating than the PS-4.

QUOTE:
I've been running the layout in the past with no problems and I don't know what would have changed to cause this problem? Any ideas? Thanks, ED

4) It's been up and running and you have crossed booster districts before without problems and you have not changed any trackage or any wiring. Right?

Electronic get buggy as soon as the warranty expires. That's been my experience with a Kodak Easy Share Printer last week end.

Well, sorry I don't know either. If we were having a betting pool, I'd pick the automatic reversing circuit in at least one booster has a defect causing an out of phase situation thereby causing a circuit breaker (or thermo protection) in one or both boosters to trip before the PS-4 circuit breaker. [%-)]

Please keep us updated!

[gmpullman]

Thanks, Gary & Simon

The other day I removed the two "PS-REV" units from the wiring, somehow I thought they may have been "talking back" to the booster causing the booster to go into auto reverse mode.
The problem DID go away so I thought I had a defective PS-REV. Then I went to operate my new Broadway CZ yesterday and POW, same problem is back.

Correct, if I bridge a rail gap on the same rail and the gap separates power districts fed from different boosters I get a short... the short gives me the 5 beeps from the booster but NO red lights on the PS 4!!

Tomorrow I will temporarily remove the PS-4s from the equation and see if they are the culprit.

I just bought a new DB-200 but I had this problem before I installed the new booster.
Presumably the booster is set for default operation but it was strange-- I bought it from Tony's but it just came wrapped in bubble wrap. NO box, NO instructions, NO Loconet jumper cable. Did Tony's send me a used booster?

Thanks again, ED

[simon1966]

Ed,

If you had the problem before adding the new booster, does this mean you were having it when there was only one booster in the equation? If so, it has to be a PS4 issue.

[pbuck]

ed
do you have the second booster set as the slave boster and only one boster is the comand station if they fight for dominance this is the type oof problem you will have your digitrax oners manual will explain how to make sure this is set up corectly hope this helps also if you still have problems try calling digitrax they are great help and always willing to help good luck phil

[cmrproducts]

Make sure that the little Green wire jumper (on the Booster) is tight in the connector on the front wire plug. They have been known to come loose! Be sure that the little Green wire has the ends stripped properly (mine didn’t) !

This wire is what sets the Booster for either Booster mode or Auto Reverser (which sounds like is happening – auto reversing) !

Do you have a common ground wire between the Command station and the Booster?

They just have to have a wire between the marked GROUND connection to the boosters and the command station to get a reference point that is common to both units.

If the Circuit Breakers/ Reversers have a ground reference point they should also be connected to the Command station ground connection. Again for a common point reference.

I have seen a lot of owners, when they have added the PM42 circuit breakers, have a problem with the circuit breakers not wanting to trip before the booster does due to the missing ground (common) connection. This is especially true for the (PM42) when it is set up for a reverser.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gmpullman

...I bought it from Tony's but it just came wrapped in bubble wrap. NO box, NO instructions, NO Loconet jumper cable. Did Tony's send me a used booster?
Thanks again, ED

Even though it's not related to the problem, doesn't sound good. Maybe he or his shipping department sent someone else's DB-200 that was there for repairs and sent it to you by mistake. And maybe they got your new one. I just had a discussion with my DHL driver about something like that. If you call to talk about the problem, ask about it.

[jbinkley60]

I would suggest to try reversing the inputs to one of the PS4s and see if the problem goes away. I had a similar issue with dual boosters and found the outputs were reversed on the booster itself. Mine was with a 100 and 150 booster combination.

[Modeloldtimer]

For DCC make sure you gap both rails A & B at each end in each power or reversing section.
DO NOT USE Common rail wiring with DCC. Make sure that a reversing track section is long enough to hold complete trains.
Sounds like you have 2 Boosters and both are set up as Command Boosters.
To add a DB150 Booster.
Start with a un-powered DB150.
Connect the DB150's CONFIG A & GROUND terminals with a short length of wire.
Set the DB150's MODE switch to RUN
Power up the DB150. The DB150 will automatically convert to booster only opernation when you power it up. Connect your DB150 to your Command Booster on LocoNet via either LocoNet Port A or B using regular LocoNet cables that have been tested with the LT1. Now make sure that you have only ONE Booster set up as the Command Booster.

Using the DB150 as a autoReversing Booster.
start with an up-powered Booster which is set up as a command Booster only.
Connect the DB150's Config A, Config B & Ground terminals with two short lengths of wire.
Set the BD150's Mode switch to RUN.
Power up the DB150. The DB150 will automaticlly convert to automatic reversing booster opernation when you power up.
Connect to your Command Booster or other DB150's on LocoNet via either LocoNet Port A or B using Cables that were tested with an LT-1.
To handle auto reversing, you will need two devices, one that acts as the system polarity reference and another to detect a polarity mismatch and correct it.
If you are using two Digitrax boosters, one acts as the polarity reference and the other handles the polarity reversal for the reversing section. You can also use a Digitrax booster and PM4 to handle automatic reversing sections.
A single DB150 can be used to handle more than one reversing section however, the unit can only fix a polarity mis-match at one gap at a time. If more than one train is entering or leaving the reverse loops connected to a single booster at the same time, a short will occur. More than one train can be in the reversing loop at any time but, only one can cross the double gap at a time.
Using PM4 for Power Managent & AutoReversing.
If you want the benefits of setting up power districts but you don't need to add more power to run trains, you can use a PM4 Quad power Manager to set up sub-districts within booster power districts. With PM4 you can seperate the output of one or more boosters into four sub-districts that can be set up as either auto-reversing or as smart circuit breakers for short circuit management. For further Infomation check with the Digitrax web site at http://www.digitrax.com
You can down load manuals on the DCS100, DB150, DB200, PM4, TL-1, LocoNet, etc.

[Anonymous]

I have heard of this problem before and belive it could be that one of your boosters is overheating. I don't remember what the fix was but you think that could be the problem let me know and I'll try to find out how it was repaired. Jerry

[mpucoder]

I know this is old, but I just had the same problem with a DB150 and another booster where the polarity at times would be incorrect and cause a short. The DB150, during powerup, will sense any voltage on its rails and match the polarity. This is intended to avoid shorts caused by booster being out of phase, and, normally, works fine. But when the gap between an auto-reverser and a DB150 is bridged the DB150 can see the wrong polarity, and will match it. This can be avoided during a normal powerup by checking for these gaps being bridged, but this can also happen if the booster shuts down and then restarts. I've tested this by jumpering from a booster already powered up to a DB150, using both polarities, and the DB150 matched the polarity present at startup.

[mbinsewi]

Well your in luck.  Ed, gmpullman, is still with us and very active.  Maybe he'll see this and chime in.

Mike.

[gmpullman]

Hi and 

Yes, I had a tough time figuring out the problem with my DCS-200 and DB-150 where the gaps in the rails would sometimes short and other times be fine.

Then I finally found a line in the Digitrax Knowledge base: (Which didn't exist in 2006, if I recall)

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB534/short-circuit-when-adding-a-db100-or-db150-booster/

 

MOST DCS100/DCS200 command stations come from the factory set with Rail A & Rail B connections that are the opposite phase from the DB100 and DB150 boosters.

 

After hours (weeks, actually) of tracing buss and feeder wires I finally came across this tiny little detail in the KB.

I presently have the command station and all three boosters set so that they are non-reversing and rely on two PX-AR and one Digitrax AR-1 for my reversing loops. IIRC option switch 3 from (T) to (C)

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB7/automatic-reversing-sections/

I can't say for sure about feeding an AR1 from a booster that is also auto reversing but it seems to me I have heard that they can "get confused" having both an auto-reverse booster feeding an auto reverse stand-alone device.

Hope that helps, Ed

[edit] I see the moderator moved this thread to the Electronics and DCC forum. Twelve years ago there wasn't a DCC forum but there was a "Where's the Wisconsin Central M-R boxcar forum!"

My how times have changed!