Apparently Windows 11 does not use or access com ports. That makes it a little difficult (read impossible) to connect to JMRI. Has anyone come up with a solution or fix? Thank you
I have a 2-yr old laptop running Win 11 that was upgraded from the Win 10. I don't have any issues connecting to or operating JMRI 5.6. And my laptop is using COM3 for a port.
What version of JMRI are you running?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
My (very old) layout laptop needed to be replaced. I was walking thru Staples one day 18 months ago and checked out their laptop table. I couldn't believe what a saw. An HP 15" I3 processor with 8 gig of RAM and. 256 SSD drive for $248. I asked the tech support guy if this was correct and he said yes and I said get one to go. Anyway, got it home, loaded Java and JMRI (whatever were the current versions at the time, 18 months ago) and it opened immediately. No searching for drivers . It opens instantaneous.
Sorry, forgot to ment came with Win 11. Have not experienced any connectivity issues
It turns out the NCE Pro dcc has an rs232 port on the front that you connect to a USB port on your pc. BUT you can't just use a typical rs232 to USB cable for a printer. It had to be a "straight through" also called an "extender" cable. Now to find one.
Glad you were able to figure it out
Hello All,
NCE makes one specifically for this purpose.
You can find them for less than MSRP at Mountain Subdivision Hobbies.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
ndbprr It turns out the NCE Pro dcc has an rs232 port on the front that you connect to a USB port on your pc. BUT you can't just use a typical rs232 to USB cable for a printer. It had to be a "straight through" also called an "extender" cable. Now to find one.
The PH-Pro has a 9-pin (DB9) serial port (RS232 is the communication protocol, but DB9 is the physical connector spec). If you have a "real" DB9 serial port on your computer, you would use a "straight-through" serial cable (as opposed to a cross-over or modem cable). Otherwise, you need a USB-Serial adapter such as the Keyspan USA-19HS.
In either case, make sure that the connection on the PH-Pro is secure. For whatever reason, NCE uses a DB9 connector that sometimes causes issues with the cable/adapter fully seating. Folks often have to resort to fixes such as filing down the nuts on the connector, etc.
If you have the new PH5, it has a USB connector, so all you need is a standard USB cable. None of the above applies to the PH5.
Also, your original statement that "Windows 11 does not use or access com ports" is complete bunk. Many (most?) commercially available computers no longer include them as a cost-saving measure, but Windows 11 certainly supports them.
In fact, many OEM motherboards still have the hardware provision for them, usually in the form of a header that needs only a cable like this to bring it to the outside world. Both of my self-built Win11 computers (layout computer and office computer) have such headers, although in both cases they are unused.
I was running Windoze 10 on my laptop until November when it updated to Windows 11. Since then, I haven't been able to use DecoderPro or my Digitrax SoundLoader. Using a PR4 to connect to a stand-alone programming track, and have latest version of DecoderPro and SoundLoader. Tried both ports (3 and 4), neither work, however my LokProgrammer still works fine with either. Wonder if the PR4 needs a driver or something to be compatile to Windows 11?
On my laptop, I had to force the unsigned Digitrax driver into the correct comport. That made my PR4 work as expected.
Digitrax has both the driver (Windows 8/10 worked on my 11) and detailed "force unsigned driver" instructions on their website.
It's supposed to work without doing that, but mine would not, and that fix solved the "no communication" issue. Standard disclaimers of YMMV, and you get what you pay for applies.
Ricky W.
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wjstix I was running Windoze 10 on my laptop until November when it updated to Windows 11. Since then, I haven't been able to use DecoderPro or my Digitrax SoundLoader. Using a PR4 to connect to a stand-alone programming track, and have latest version of DecoderPro and SoundLoader. Tried both ports (3 and 4), neither work, however my LokProgrammer still works fine with either. Wonder if the PR4 needs a driver or something to be compatile to Windows 11?
Simon
I've been using JMRI for 21+ years, and have been using it on Windows 11 with both a PR3 and a PR4 since Windows 11 went GA, and I've never had an issue.
As for PR3/PR4 drivers, they actually use a Microsoft-supplied driver (usbser.sys) that has been included with Windows since W2K or so. The problem was that the USB device table Windows uses to determine what driver to use didn't correctly identify the PR3/PR4 devices. Digitrax therefore was forced to provide a "driver", which is actually an inf (information) file that tells Windows what driver to use. (You can browse that inf file (it's a text file) and see that it points to usbser.sys. It also contains the Digitrax branding information.)
But Microsoft fixed that USB lookup table about the time of the Windows 10 "Creators" updates, so any version of Windows after that should correctly identify the PR3/PR4 and install the correct driver. However, that introduced a new problem of "public perception"; Now folks were concerned that when they looked at their PR3/PR4 in Device Manager, they no longer saw "Digitrax", but rather "Microsoft".
Well, that's correct because now that Windows correctly identifies the PR3/PR4, the Digitrax-supplied inf file, and thus the Digitrax branding, are no longer needed/used. So Device Manager shows "Microsoft" since they (have always!) supplied the usbser.sys driver.
P.S. If those folks who used the Digitrax-supplied "driver" (inf file) dug deep enough into Device Manager, they would see that their PR3/PR4 is in fact using the Microsoft-supplied usbser.sys.
P.P.S. This is actually old news, since the aforementioned Win10 Creators updates came out in 2017. It was discussed at that time, in great length, on the Digitrax list. As for the inf file descriptions/parameters/etc, that’s all available on the Microsoft Web site.
ricktrains4824Digitrax has both the driver (Windows 8/10 worked on my 11) and detailed "force unsigned driver" instructions on their website.
I searched Digitrax' website and didn't see the "force unsigned driver" anywhere?
My situation is I've updated Java, and uninstalled/reinstalled the latest versions of Digitrax Soundloader (which says it includes all the required drivers etc. for the PR4) and Decoder Pro several times. When I put an engine on the programming track (only using Decoder Pro with a dedicated separate programming track) and try to read ID, the engine buzzes and stutters indicating it's getting a signal, then get a 308 "no response from decoder" error message.
FWIW I've using a PR3 and in the last few years a PR4 and Decoder Pro for many years now. It seems like it will work for a year or two and then stop, and I have to go in and do something to get it to work again. I'm thinking eventually I may have to set up some other way to access Decoder Pro other than the PR4.
If you are getting 308 errors in JMRI, you don't have a communication issue between your computer and the PR4.
The 308 error is issued after your command station tells JMRI that the decoder isn't responding as expected, which means that your PR4 has to be talking to your computer!
You need to look between the PR4 and the decoder: Insufficient wiring or poor connections to your programming track, dirty programming track or loco wheels, dust/lint on the wipers (older Athearns are notorious for this!), bad wiring between the loco and the decoder, etc.
You aren't using older MRC decoders, are you? They don't support readback. MRC didn't include it in their firmware because they felt it wasn't "necessary". Maybe not, but just about every other decoder brand afforded you that "luxury"...
Well I've checked and doublechecked the wiring and that. I mean, I've been using Decoder Pro for maybe 7-8 years so I kinda know 'the usual suspects' to check. I've tried several locomotives with different brand decoders, cleaned the programming track etc. and nothing seems to matter. Given that the problem started when I upgraded the laptop from Windows 10 to 11, it would the problem is somehow related to that, like a driver needed for 11 not being there anymore or something.
p.s. I've also tried connecting up the PR4 and programming track through a programming booster. Only difference there is when I try to read the engine ID it comes up "255" and if I use Soundloader or Decoder Pro to read CVs, it reads all of them as 255. That's part of why I'm pretty sure the signal is getting to the decoder, it's kinda like when the signal gets back to Decoder Pro it's scrambled - or maybe the signal gets to the decoder, but it's scrambled some way?
wjstix Well I've checked and doublechecked the wiring and that. I mean, I've been using Decoder Pro for maybe 7-8 years so I kinda know 'the usual suspects' to check. I've tried several locomotives with different brand decoders, cleaned the programming track etc. and nothing seems to matter. Given that the problem started when I upgraded the laptop from Windows 10 to 11, it would the problem is somehow related to that, like a driver needed for 11 not being there anymore or something.
I still think you’re barking up the wrong tree by blaming a driver issue. As I noted in my previous post, the PR3/PR4 have always used the Microsoft-supplied usbser.sys. I also pointed out how to verify that Digitrax was pointing to that driver by examining the inf file they provide, and how to verify that’s what your device is actually using by drilling down in Device Manager.
In addition, I pointed out that the 308 error in JMRI only occurs when your command station (or stand-alone programmer) reports back to JMRI that the decoder didn’t acknowledge as expected. That “reporting back” couldn’t happen if your PR4 wasn’t communicating. You’d get a 306 if JMRI couldn’t “talk to” the command station/programmer. These error codes are all documented on the JMRI web site.
wjstix p.s. I've also tried connecting up the PR4 and programming track through a programming booster. Only difference there is when I try to read the engine ID it comes up "255" and if I use Soundloader or Decoder Pro to read CVs, it reads all of them as 255. That's part of why I'm pretty sure the signal is getting to the decoder, it's kinda like when the signal gets back to Decoder Pro it's scrambled - or maybe the signal gets to the decoder, but it's scrambled some way?
I’ll admit I don’t have any experience with programming track boosters, because I’ve never needed one with either my PR3 or my PR4.
But this sure seems to reinforce my belief that it’s not the PR4. A value of 255 for the manufacturer ID and/or version means JMRI was not able to get a good read. (See post 208315 in jmriusers, if the mods don’t delete this reference.) Something has to be reporting back to JMRI to give you the 308’s and 255’s, and if not via the PR4, then what?
One other thought: You are using the PS4 that came with your PR4, and you have tested it to be sure it's producing the correct voltage, haven't you?
The "USB side" of the PR4 is powered via the USB cable, and the "programming side" by the PS14. So it's theoretically possible, I suppose, that a bad/wrong power supply could cause the PR4 to not be able to read/write, but still communicate via USB.
Yes I'm using the Digitrax 'wall wart' with the PR4, it's worked fine for maybe several years up until now.
An earlier reply indicated that the problem could be with the drivers.
I will check all the connections again, but I still think it an odd coincidence that everything worked fine until the Windows 11 upgrade. I suppose it's possible a wire or some connection just happened to go bad that same day, but it seems a bit unlikely.
But stranger things have happened.
Since nothing else has worked re hardware, I tried hooking up my old PR3 and got a result similar to the OP's original issue - COM3 simply disappeared. I may try uninstalling and reinstalling everything one more time, and if that doesn't work, may search around for another, simpler device (i.e. one that doesn't need a 10 page instruction sheet) to connect the programming track and my laptop.
wjstix Since nothing else has worked re hardware, I tried hooking up my old PR3 and got a result similar to the OP's original issue - COM3 simply disappeared. I may try uninstalling and reinstalling everything one more time, and if that doesn't work, may search around for another, simpler device (i.e. one that doesn't need a 10 page instruction sheet) to connect the programming track and my laptop.
Did you select COM3 just because it's mentioned in some instructions somewhere (which folks often do), or did you confirm the correct port in Device Manager by plugging/unplugging the device?
On my layout desktop computer, my PR3 is COM3 and my PR4 is COM4. But on my laptop, the PR4 is COM3. I don't use the PR3 with the laptop, but I'm willing to bet it would use COM4 if I were to plug it in. So confirming the correct COM port matters.
However, if your COM port is truely "disappearing" with both the PR3 and the PR4, it's likely that it's not the device itself. Bad USB cable, power settings in Windows "turning off" the USB ports, etc.
COM3 only disappeared when I tried using my old PR3. It came back when I reconnected the PR4.
I've been using COM3 for the PR4 and COM4 for my LokProgrammer since I bought the laptop a couple of years ago, no problem with either before Windows 11 update.
Device Manager basically says something is connected to COM3, but doesn't specify what.
You may need to upgrade your PR3 firmware. My old PR3 needed the firmware updated so that it would run on a 64bit computer. Same at my club when I tried running a PR3.
wjstix COM3 only disappeared when I tried using my old PR3. It came back when I reconnected the PR4. I've been using COM3 for the PR4 and COM4 for my LokProgrammer since I bought the laptop a couple of years ago, no problem with either before Windows 11 update. Device Manager basically says something is connected to COM3, but doesn't specify what.
I get the impression you don’t fully understand how COM port assignments work in Windows.
When you plug in a “new” USB device that needs a COM port, Windows will assign the next available unused COM port. It keeps track of those assignments in a registry entry, using various bits of information such as the device’s hardware ID and serial number, etc. Once a COM port has been assigned to a device, it will NOT be given to another device, even if that other device is plugged into the same USB port!
So if your PR4 has been assigned COM3, then of course COM3 will “disappear” from Device Manager if/when the PR4 is unplugged. And again, since COM3 has been assigned to the PR4, it will NOT be re-used for the PR3, even if the PR3 is plugged into the same USB port as the PR4 was. (The exception to this would be if the PR4 was actually uninstalled, rather than just unplugged. Then COM3 would again be available because the uninstall process would remove the relationship between COM3 and the no-longer-installed PR4.)
Since COM3 is assigned to your PR4 and COM4 is assigned to your LokProgrammer, the lowest COM port that could possibly be assigned to your PR3 would be COM5, although it could be anything 5 or higher. That’s why, in a previous post, I asked that you plug/unplug your device(s) to confirm the COM port(s) for it (them). (Note that COM1 and COM2 are legacy assignments in Windows for the modem and for the motherboard RS232 port, respectively, so they aren’t a consideration here.)
And yes, I know there are instructions and videos all over the Web showing how to change COM port assignments. But unless you really know what you’re doing, you’re likely to create more problems than you solve by doing that. You’re better off understanding how it works and going along with that.
For example, I mentioned in my previous post that my PR3 is on COM3 and my PR4 is on COM4. That is by design. When I (re-)built the machine, and hadn’t added any USB devices to it yet, I knew that COM3 was next in line to be assigned. So I plugged in my PR3 first. After it was recognized by Windows (and COM3 was assigned to it), I then plugged in my PR4 knowing it would be assigned COM4. Makes it easy to tell which is which in Device Manager, and it was done by working with the process instead of trying to alter it after the fact.
CNR378 You may need to upgrade your PR3 firmware. My old PR3 needed the firmware updated so that it would run on a 64bit computer. Same at my club when I tried running a PR3.
I reconnected the PR4 and followed the Digitrax directions to download the mfc90.dll driver, and add it to the DigiIPL.exe folder. After making sure everything was set to COM3 I tried Decoder Pro again, and it worked first time!
https://www.digitrax.com/downloads/digiipl/
Thanks for comments and help! Didn't mean to hijack the thread....
Hey that's great! I totally forgot about these drivers.
wjstix I reconnected the PR4 and followed the Digitrax directions to download the mfc90.dll driver, and add it to the DigiIPL.exe folder. After making sure everything was set to COM3 I tried Decoder Pro again, and it worked first time! https://www.digitrax.com/downloads/digiipl/ Thanks for comments and help! Didn't mean to hijack the thread....
That's OK, I'm done too. It worked once, read and changed CVs, now back to 308. Since it won't work with any decoders, I have double/triple checked all the connections, etc. I have to assume something has failed in the PR4 itself. I will look to find some other gizmo to connect my laptop to a programming track, but I'm spending too much time on what is clearly an unsolveable issue.
p.s. The Digitrax website's instructions for the PR3/4 say that Windows 10/11 should automagically get the correct drivers when you install the Digitrax software, but then has (fairly lengthy) instructions on how to download the correct driver if the PR3/4 doesn't work. In earlier versions of the instructions, it says that a driver must be downloaded and added to the correct place for the PR3/4 to work properly. So it's not like I'm just randomly making something up re drivers, I've tried everything else and it hasn't worked since changing to Windows 11. Unfortunately, the Digitrax instructions are still for Windows 10, so some of the folders and such have changed names, so it may be difficult to figure out how to do it. As I said, it may be easier in the long run to find another device to connect the laptop and the programming track. We'll see.