I have started building an N Scale layout. I have a Power Pro NCE System with a wireless base station. I also have a PB105 Powerhouse booster. I have 4 long main lines, one reverse loop with a yard. I have a main yard, a hidden yard and a small yard for a coal industry. My plan is to have a circuit breaker for each yard and the reverse loop yard. The main lines I was planning to break them in half with a circuit breaker for each half (so a total of 8 circuit breakers for the main lines and 4 breakers for the yards). Does that sound reasonable and do I have enough power in the system that I decribed? I have 16 sound engines and 28 DCC engines. I have long passing sidings so I may have 4-8 engines on the mainlines at the same time. My main lines are about 45 to 65 feet long and each one has one to two passing sidings. I don't anticipate having more than 3-6 engines in a yard at the same time. I am still very stuck in the DC mindset so DCC is a bit confusing still. I was thinking of splitting the power districts evenly between the Power Pro and the Powerhouse booster. I am using 10-12 gauge bus lines and 20 gauge drop lines. I am using EB3 and EB1 circuit breakers. I am using Peco insulfrog turnouts. Blue Point turnout machines, Peco PL10 turnout machines and a few Caboose Industries turnout throws. I have quite a bit of track layed (not glued down) and have been using a DC power pack to test the track and then I switched to a MRC Prodigy Advance Squared system to check to make sure things worked. I just semi-retired and I have a grandson who loves to help me so I am planning that this will take a long time to build, but I actually like the building process rather than the running of trains which my grandson prefers. I am at the point where I feel I need to start using the NCE DCC sytem so any feedback is appreciated.
Wiring is very important, poor wiring will derail your efforts very quickly.
Your system will have enough power, as modern equipment doesn't need a lot of power.
You could divide the layout into two booster districts and subdivide that into power districts as you wish.
Insulfrogs require gaps with DCC to prevent issues at the frog. Unless you have a supply of them already, you may wish to consider the Unifrog, as the insulfrog is being phased out. It behaves like the Insulfrog, but can be wired as an Electrofrog.
More on wiring at dccwiki: Wiring
betamaxInsulfrogs require gaps with DCC to prevent issues at the frog. Unless you have a supply of them already, you may wish to consider the Unifrog, as the insulfrog is being phased out. It behaves like the Insulfrog, but can be wired as an Electrofrog
Mike
kevinihrkeI have started building an N Scale layout. I have a Power Pro NCE System with a wireless base station. I also have a PB105 Powerhouse booster. I have 4 long main lines, one reverse loop with a yard. I have a main yard, a hidden yard and a small yard for a coal industry. My plan is to have a circuit breaker for each yard and the reverse loop yard. The main lines I was planning to break them in half with a circuit breaker for each half (so a total of 8 circuit breakers for the main lines and 4 breakers for the yards). Does that sound reasonable and do I have enough power in the system that I decribed?
Does that sound reasonable and do I have enough power in the system that I decribed?
I too have a 5 amp wireless PH-Pro system and a separate 5 amp PB105 booster. My layout is 42' x 25' P-shaped double mainline with 4-track mainline complex in the center with two large and long double mainline end loops, divided into four reversing sections.
I have divided my layout into 2 booster sections. The four reversing sections are controlled by the PB105 booster, divided into four power districts each controlled by a PSX-AR circuit breaker. The 4-track mainline portion is controlled by a PSX circuit breaker as part of the command station booster.
A large downtown passenger station and an engine servicing facility are each controlled by separate PSX circuit breakers that are also part of the command station booster district.
In my opinion, you have adequate power to run that size layout as you have designed it.
I do have one question and that is whether the 4 mainlines are connected by crossovers. My inclination would be to only use 4 circuit breakers, one for each mainline. In addition, a separate breaker for each yard would be prudent.
Your wiring protocol seems a bit heavy, especially the buses at 10 to 12 gauge. I use 14 gauge solid copper with no problems. The 20 gauge feeders will be adequate.
On my current layout, I installed feeders on every piece of track, be it flex track or turnout or other specialty track (e.g. double slip, crossing, etc.). Anything less could cause unwanted power losses. I solder the feeders to the outside of the rails.
I too use Peco Insulfrogs. I see no reason to use turnouts with powered frogs, but then I have no short wheelbase locos.
Since you are using Peco turnouts, you might want to consider dumping the manual ground throws and just take advantage of the spring thrown points. I just use finger flicks for that purpose.
I encourage you to move away from DC and go to DCC at this point. Since you plan to operate in DCC, your wiring should be tested in DCC.
Hope this helps.
Rich
Alton Junction
I'll add one more thing to the comments by Rich. The DCC Specialties PSX-AR is now replaced by the PSXX-AR Auto Reverser. It's the same as the PSX-AR with some added features.
https://tonystrains.com/product/dcc-specialties-psxx-ar-power-shield-auto-reverser-circuit-breaker
Neal
nealknows I'll add one more thing to the comments by Rich. The DCC Specialties PSX-AR is now replaced by the PSXX-AR Auto Reverser. It's the same as the PSX-AR with some added features. https://tonystrains.com/product/dcc-specialties-psxx-ar-power-shield-auto-reverser-circuit-breaker Neal
One thing that I meant to mention in my first reply is that I have two RRampMeters installed on my layout, one for each booster.
The RRampMeter is specifically designed to measure DCC power, and it provides readouts for both voltage and current (amps). The RRampMeter can be used inline as I do, or it can be used as a walkaround device to measure voltage and current along the layout.
You might want to consider this device for your layout.
richhotrain One thing that I meant to mention in my first reply is that I have two RRampMeters installed on my layout, one for each booster. The RRampMeter is specifically designed to measure DCC power, and it provides readouts for both voltage and current (amps). The RRampMeter can be used inline as I do, or it can be used as a walkaround device to measure voltage and current along the layout. You might want to consider this device for your layout. Rich
Like Rich said, this is a great tool! I have the walk around one with the clips to test.
Water Level Route betamax Insulfrogs require gaps with DCC to prevent issues at the frog. Unless you have a supply of them already, you may wish to consider the Unifrog, as the insulfrog is being phased out. It behaves like the Insulfrog, but can be wired as an Electrofrog Betamax, I believe you have Insulfrogs confused with Electrofrogs. The insulfrogs do not need gaps with the exception of reverse loops/wyes, same as most other turnouts.
betamax Insulfrogs require gaps with DCC to prevent issues at the frog. Unless you have a supply of them already, you may wish to consider the Unifrog, as the insulfrog is being phased out. It behaves like the Insulfrog, but can be wired as an Electrofrog
Betamax, I believe you have Insulfrogs confused with Electrofrogs. The insulfrogs do not need gaps with the exception of reverse loops/wyes, same as most other turnouts.
With DCC you have the potential for a short at the frog if the wheel bridges across the two rails. Wide wheel treads cause this.
Insulfrogs were designed before DCC came into being, and have a power routing capability that is not required with DCC. That is where the issue of a short comes in.
Thank you for the suggestions and letting me know that I have ample power. I appreciate the help. I started some wiring on a section and it worked well with my NCE DCC system so that was encouraging. I also am putting feeder wires on all the sections of track. I am using plastic joiners on all of my turnouts and wiring each turnout, someone in the Model railroader magazine suggested doing this. They said that if I ever need to replace a turnout it's a lot easier to do it with plastic joiners. I am combining 2-4 feeder wires with soldering connectors (you put the wires in and heat the connector with a heat gun) and I am running one wire out of the connection to the bus wire so I don't have to make so many connections to the bus wire, they work well. I am also trying to not go more than 18 inches for any one feeder wire. I will check out the idea of two booster districts as well.
It is really nice that there is forum to ask questions from experienced people, I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
kevinihrke Thank you for the suggestions and letting me know that I have ample power. I appreciate the help. I started some wiring on a section and it worked well with my NCE DCC system so that was encouraging. I also am putting feeder wires on all the sections of track. I am using plastic joiners on all of my turnouts and wiring each turnout, someone in the Model railroader magazine suggested doing this.
Thank you for the suggestions and letting me know that I have ample power. I appreciate the help. I started some wiring on a section and it worked well with my NCE DCC system so that was encouraging. I also am putting feeder wires on all the sections of track. I am using plastic joiners on all of my turnouts and wiring each turnout, someone in the Model railroader magazine suggested doing this.
Hello All,
Congratulations!
Sounds like you are well on your way!!!
Some observations and suggestions...
kevinihrke...one reverse loop with a yard.
So glad you recognized this!
I too use an NCE Power Pro wireless system with a 5 amp booster.
When adding reversing modules and circuit breaker protection I strongly suggest staying with NCE components.
"Mixing-And-Matching" these components from different manufacturers might lead to frustration, loss of time, and money.
Take a look at this thread...
EB1 is not resetting
The way the NCE DCC system deals with circuit protection and reversing circuits differs from how other DCC manufacturers' components might.
This only pertains to the control (command)/power (booster) track power of your DCC system.
For my motive fleet, I use a mix of Digitrax, TCS, Bachmann, and ZIMO- -sound and non-sound decoders.
My turnouts are controlled by a combination of Atlas twin-coil and PECO twin-coil switch machines on a separate circuit with Capacitive Discharge Units.
Capacitor Discharge Units made in the USA
Keep the questions coming.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit I too use an NCE Power Pro wireless system with a 5 amp booster. When adding reversing modules and circuit breaker protection I strongly suggest staying with NCE components. "Mixing-And-Matching" these components from different manufacturers might lead to frustration, loss of time, and money.
kevinihrke I have all NCE equipment that I bought used from a local guy who was moving and getting out of the hobby. The only thing that I have that is not NCE are auto reversers. He had a Circuitron AR-2, a Digitrax AR-1 and the MRC auto reverser. I had the MRC one temporarily installed while I was using the MRC Prodigy Advanced Squared but have taken that off. I assume the Circuitron and Digitrax auto reversers will work? I only have one reverse loop. Any suggestions as to which I should use or should I buy a NCE one? Thanks again for all your help!!
kevinihrkeI bought used from a local guy who was moving and getting out of the hobby.
Did you get the manual for your system?
If not, I highly recommend getting one from NCE.
A hard copy of the Power Pro Manual will run you $25.95 + S/H.
You can also download one for free from NCE along with other pertinent diagrams.
kevinihrkeI assume the Circuitron and Digitrax auto reversers will work?
If you read the thread EB1 is not resetting
You will see how some components are incompatible with some NCE components, as has been noted by other responders.
It also discusses in what order these components should be connected.
On my pike I have five (5) power blocks; one of which is the wye reversing section.
Using the NCE AR10 auto-reversing unit adds built-in circuit breaker protection to that power district- -not having to add another component is a definite plus.
NCE shows the AR10 "Out Of Stock" but Mountain Subdivision Hobbies has them in stock.
Thanks for the information, I do have a manual so I will check it out. I think I will try the ciruitron autoreverser and if doesn't work I'll by the NCE one.