Okay, here goes. A couple of definitions: F = Friend; PwrC = PowerCab; Pcab = ProCab; OTP = over the phone/email.
F's goal was to speed match some diesels. I had helped him OTP to start doing as he wanted. He told me that he was having trouble with one engine doing the three point CV2/5/6 thing.
He has a Pcab and was using that to enter CV values.
I asked him what decoder was installed and he told me an older Soundtraxx, not the latest Tsunami2. I informed him then that the original Tsunami did not have CVs 5 and 6 so he could use his Pcab to enter values in thse CVs until the cows came home and not get anywhere. F was disappointed to hear that as he has a number of locos with Soundtraxx decoders installed.
I told him that his option was to use JMRI to develop a user speed curve. Since he doesn't have JMRI, I told him that he could use one of the decoder built-in optional curves and adjust from there. So how to do that?
I told him that he needed to make CV 29 = 50, and make CV 25 = to one of the numbers on the Soundtrax speed curve chart, let's assume 12 for this discussion.
So F does this and tells me that engine will no longer run. What do you mean it won't run, says I. F says it won't run. Okay, reset the decoder and tell me if it runs. F does and says it now runs.
Okay, try again. Set CV29 to 50 and CV25 to 12 and see how it runs. F says engine won't run. What, says I again. Okay, reset it one more time and tell me what happens. F says engine now runs. Okay, one more time with CVs 29 and 25. Engine won't run.
All of the setting and resetting F is doing at this point is with his Pcab on his program track. I asked him if he was sure that he was entering the values correctly, and he told me he was sure because he could read back the CVs with his Pcab. I told him that I didn't think he could read back CVs with his Pcab, neither on the main nor on the program track. He told me that he could, and I didn't wish to debate that point further just then.
So, what next? I volunteered to bring my PwrC and a programming track to his place to see if we could figure out what was happening. That way the programming would be isolated from his layout.
Put the engine on the ptrack and reset it. It ran. Used the Pwrc to enter a value of 50 into CV 29 and 12 into CV25. Engine didn't run. WT*! Stared at it for a while and then noticed that the Pwrc display showed *** where the values needed to be entered. Hummm. Maybe it wants a 3-digit value. So instead of entering 50 and 12, I entered 050 and 012. Success. Engine now runs.
But wait. There's more.
Changed CV 25 to a value of 16, which is the built-in straight line curve. Engine now ran except not at the desired speeds. So I said okay, let's runs the engine and adjust the CV values corresponding to steps 1, 7, 14, 21, and 28 to the speeds you want, and I'll take them home and use the JMRI program to generate a curve that will fit those points.
Did that and had him enter the new values. Everything came out pretty close, except that loco would not move until speed step 3. Okay, let's change all the values for speed steps 1 thru 7 to the speed step 7 value, and then adjust the value at speed step one until the loco ran. Tell me that value and I'll adjust the values of steps 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. he did, and I did.
But wait, there's still more.
F enters the values and now tells me that all the speeds are now incorrect. And curiously, they are all now about half of what was expected.
But wait, there's even more. In the emails I keep saying Tsunami, and he keeps saying Soundtraxx. I finally asked why. He says it's a Soundtraxx, not a Tsunami. Ummm, what do you mean? I checked the manufacturer number when I was at your place and it came up 141, which is the assigned number for Throttleup (Soundtraxx). F says that may be so, but it is a Soundtraxx, not a Tsunami. I says then what exactly is it. F says he doesn't know.
Somewhere during all of the above F told me that the ID was 141 and the version was 35, and he got that from his Pcab. So out of curiosity I went to the Soundtraxx site and looked through all the applicable manuals. Hmmm, no version 35 anywhere. So I asked F to please go back and tell me what the ID and version were. Now, suddenly, he tells me that when he looks he gets a cannot read CV message. Well, alrighty then.
As it stands right now, I have asked F to give me the engine and let me mess with it at home. He seems reluctant to do that. Maybe he's afraid that I'll find out he entered something incorrectly. Oh well.
Thank you for the acronym index. Wow what a saga. I had some old Soundtrack decoders. I remember when they were only sound with no motor and lights you needed another decoder for those. And yes the next versions had rudimentary motor control and simple on off lights. The pre tsunami was better by far but still lacking in the motor control department.
I still don't understand why you needed the three digits for simple CVs. It's a mystery.
Pete.
Yes, a mind bender.
And now F put the same values in another Tsunami loco and reports back that it doesn't respond to speed CV value changes.
Lessons learned:
a. Don't volunteer.
b. Don't try to help those who won't help themselves.
c. Don't push against a rope.
d. Peeing up a rope in the snow doesn't mean you'll get a lemon ice cone.
Update.
I think that I am at the point where I may have identified the decoder. I believe that it may be a Soundtraxx LC series item.
I am also about to jump to a conclusion that a lot of F's programming issues may be due to the fact that the NCE programming "power" is not sufficient, and that he either needs a booster or invest in a PowerCab.
maxman,
I have two Powercabs.
For now, I think I will set one of the Bachmann locos aside and purchase no more Bachmann locos, but stay with MTH or BLI.
Probably a good idea at this point. Was at F’s house this afternoon and could not get two different Soundtraxx decoders to accept speed curves. Guess I’ll have to start a new thread on that issue.
Some decoders and some controlers don't play nice together, I know it is not soposed to be that way but have seen it many times.
Yes, I wouldn't give up on an engine or a brand just because of this issue. It's much more likely this is a problem with getting the DCC system and decoder to play nice with each other than it is that either the control system or engine/decoder is faulty. Someone else with a different system might find the engine works just fine.
I've had situations where a decoder ID programmed by one system (Digitrax) couldn't be recognized by another system (CVP)...but if I changed the ID with DecoderPro, both accepted it. I have some decoders that can't be programmed using a booster, and some can't be programmed without one. Some decoder CV's won't read on one system, but will on another.
BTW has the OP ever run the engine on DC since it has a 'dual mode' decoder? If it works on DC there's no hardware issue like a loosened wire connection etc.
Should really start a different thread on this.
However to answer some questions, running on DC doesn't come into play here because both engines will run on DCC.
The goal was to be able to speed match the two engines to other engines. Because the two decoders in question don't have CV 5 and CV 6, 3-point speed programming was out and using speed tables becomes necessary.
As of right now we are having difficulty getting either decoder to accept the table curves, including the user generated curve.
Spoke to a nice person at Soundtraxx yesterday and determined that part of the issue was ours.
The first decoder is a Soundtraxx LC series item. He groaned when I told him that, and said that he had never seen one. Anyway reset for this decoder is not CV 8 = 8. It is CV 30 = 2. Me bad. This got the first engine at least running.
The second decoder is a Tsunami (original, not Tsunami 2). For this CV 8 = 8, but you have to cut power after making this change. When power is re-applied, the headlight is supposed to flash 16 times. Didn't know the flashy thing (Men In Black?) and was probably jumping into changes ahead of the game. So after the flashy thing that engine also ran.
What we are currently having difficulty with is getting either decoder to accept the speed curves. We have set CV 29 to a value of 50, which is correct. And we have set CV 25 to a value of 16 which should give us the programmed-in linear speed curve.
Just got off the phone with "F" and we might be making some progress. Unfortunately it appears that what we have is two blind guys playing horseshoes, one trying to describe where the pin is, and the other trying to describe where the shoe landed after he threw it.
Maxman.
Probably a good idea about a new thread. My apologies to the OP for the tangent.
Tom, I'd like to move my and other non-relevent posts concerning the OP's original question to a new thread. Is this something you can do?
Thanks
If you want to follow along look up CV29 here;
https://soundtraxx.com/content/Reference/Manuals/Tsunami/tsunamisteam_users_guide.pdf
CV25 is here; tsutechreference.pdf (soundtraxx.com)
My opinion is a value of 16 for CV 25 only works if have CVs 67-94 programmed. I would try values 2 thru 15 before I went thru the effort of defining my own speed table.
Lee
Lee 1234If you want to follow along
Thanks.
Been there, done that. I believe that there is a default linear curve for CV 25 value 16. Issue seems to be that changes to the values in those CVs doesn't change corresponding speeds.
maxmanTom, I'd like to move my and other non-relevent posts concerning the OP's original question to a new thread. Is this something you can do? Thanks
Unfortunately, the glitchy forum software removed that capability 3 or 4 years, Rick. The only thing that I'm able to do with a thread anymore is edit it, delete it, or move it.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.