First off, electrical issues are not my forte so please bear with me.
Doing some new track work and laying some new Fast Track handmade turnouts. I used a simple short sensor (9v battery, buzzer, two aligator clips) to check the turnouts during construction to be sure the respective sections of the turnous were isolated as per directions. I had no issues with any of them and upon completion, started to install them onto my layout. Now that the new turnouts and new track are in and connected to the rest of the layout, I am getting a short signal (a loud buzz) from my sensor when I place the leads on each side of the track throughout the layout.
Since everything was working fine prior to the new turnout and track work was done, I assumed it there was a short in that new area. However, after starting a one end and isolating each section of track and turnoutout and disconnecting the feeder from the buss wires, I still had the problem. So I started to isolate sections of the layout's bus wire loops in order to try and narrow it down to the offending area. When I disconneted the two wires from the adapter that connect into two of ports of the four pin plug that goes into the command unit, I also got a buzz indicating a short. Would getting such a signal from those two wires from the adapter be normal or an indication that something is internally wrong with the unitr?
Note - when the switch on the adapter is in the "on" position and I attach the aligator clips to the two prongs of the adapter's wall plug, my tester also emits a loud buzz. When the on off switch is in the off position, there is no buzz.
Again, sorry if this comes across as a stupid question but as I said, this is not my area of expertise and, from my perspective pretty much the least enjoyable part of model railroading there is from my perspective.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dan
You didn’t say if your DC or DCC. If you are running DC set the throttle at about 50% and use a 1157 automotive bulb in series with one rail wire from your power pack. If you are running DCC use a pair of 1157 bulbs in series with one rail. The DCC voltage is too high for a single 1157.Proceed to disconnect the turnouts until the bulbs go out. When the bulbs go off you have found the guilty section.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
Dan.
A couple of things comes to my mind right away. Have you added a track that gives you a reverse loop or a wye? And two. On the fast tracks turnouts. Are the gaps on the PC ties in the proper places and the frogs properly isolated? The throw bar gapped? Is there copper on both sides of the PC ties?
A friend of mine built some for his road and had a nagging issue. It turned out some solder had run down the side of a few ties and the copper on the underside had contact. He really used too much solder and it's easy to do.
Pete.
RR_Mel You didn’t say if your DC or DCC. If you are running DC set the throttle at about 50% and use a 1157 automotive bulb in series with one rail wire from your power pack. If you are running DCC use a pair of 1157 bulbs in series with one rail. The DCC voltage is too high for a single 1157.Proceed to disconnect the turnouts until the bulbs go out. When the bulbs go off you have found the guilty section.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
Thanks about the light bulb idea. I'm running DCC so will set that up. I pretty much understand the idea about working through the suspect areas (although I have already isolated the new turnouts and traclear without discovering the bad area). So, decided to to start at the two main wires coming out of the NCE command and got a buzz. So, I then checked the wires the coming into it from the adapter and was still getting a buzz when I connected the clips - something I didn't expect .
Pete,
I have two reverse loops but neither is near where the new turnouts and track were added. And both were functioning fine prior to beginning the redo. But not going to rule them out as being part of the problem.
Yeah, the Fast Track, though great when functioning, can be a PITA. I have checked all the required gapping of the ties, any errant solder, and the full isolating of the frogs. In short (no pun intended) the most obvious areas where a short was likely to be, turned out okay, so now it's starting at the source of power and working out from there.
Still, why would the wires out of the power pack indicate a short when the clips of the tester are connected just to them and nothing else.
reasearchhoundWhen I disconneted the two wires from the adapter that connect into two of ports of the four pin plug that goes into the command unit, I also got a buzz indicating a short. Would getting such a signal from those two wires from the adapter be normal or an indication that something is internally wrong with the unitr?
sounds like your gizmo detects a short when the command station is either connected or powered on
if so, disconnect the command station and see if your gizmo detects a short when connected to the command station. i wouldn't be surprised if it did
in general, no electronic device should be in the circuit when trying to detect a short using such a gizmo (e.g. fluke continuity meter)
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
reasearchhoundThanks about the light bulb idea. I'm running DCC so will set that up. I pretty much understand the idea about working through the suspect areas (although I have already isolated the new turnouts and traclear without discovering the bad area). So, decided to to start at the two main wires coming out of the NCE command and got a buzz. So, I then checked the wires the coming into it from the adapter and was still getting a buzz when I connected the clips - something I didn't expect .
I hope your DCC system is ok. Never apply power (the 9 volt battery) to the command station outputs or to the track while the command station is hooked up, that's actually a good way to damage the command station. Having the buzzer in the circuit probably limited the current enough to prevent any damage, but please don't ever do that again.
Nothing was hooked up when testing and everything works well on the test track so nothing got damaged. When I say I tested the leads from the adapter, that was when it was unplugged from the wall and not hooked up to the command station.
reasearchhound Nothing was hooked up when testing...
Nothing was hooked up when testing...
Even if nothing else is hooked up, applying power directly to the command station outputs ("So, decided to to start at the two main wires coming out of the NCE command and got a buzz") can damage it.
You either have a jumper wire going to the wrong buss line or a reverse section your not seeing. If like you said. The layout was working before the new track. Simply disconnect the new trackwork including the feeders. Put a lighted piece of rolling stock or rig up a 1157 tail light bulb on your old track and power up your system. Next. Connect the new track work and see if the lights are on. If they are on. No trackwork problem. If they go out. Trackwork issue. If there is no short from the trackwork, then start hooking up the jumpers one at a time until you find the one shorting out the system.
To answer your original question, whether or not it's normal would depend on the adapter and what circuitry is in it, but it wouldn't be unexpected. For example, if it's just an AC adapter then would be probing the output side of step down transformer and you get the buzz.
CSX Robert reasearchhound When I disconneted the two wires from the adapter that connect into two of ports of the four pin plug that goes into the command unit, I also got a buzz indicating a short. Would getting such a signal from those two wires from the adapter be normal or an indication that something is internally wrong with the unitr? To answer your original question, whether or not it's normal would depend on the adapter and what circuitry is in it, but it wouldn't be unexpected. For example, if it's just an AC adapter then would be probing the output side of step down transformer and you get the buzz.
reasearchhound When I disconneted the two wires from the adapter that connect into two of ports of the four pin plug that goes into the command unit, I also got a buzz indicating a short. Would getting such a signal from those two wires from the adapter be normal or an indication that something is internally wrong with the unitr?
Thanks Robert, just seemed odd to me but again, not knowing what is normal or not I wanted to see what some of you were thinking. I will treat it as "normal" and continue with my trouble shooting.