Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Programing issue - update

2890 views
18 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Programing issue - update
Posted by NVSRR on Saturday, February 26, 2022 9:05 PM

brand new 21 pin soundtrax sound decoder.   My dcc system is a NCE Procab dated 2003.  

Can not read cv is even appearing in page mode.  I did run through the programing anyway to see id it would take.  appears it didnt.   As I write this, I realize that it did not even give the decoder ID.   When I put it on the track, it did power up.  The sound did activate.   But no response form motor or light commands nor horn.  

Might I HAve missed something in the programing of this 21 pin, or am I right in thinking an update is needed for the procab?  This is the first 21 pin decoder I have worked with.

Shane

 

update 3-21

So Tony'strainexchange tells me to try program again. This time take the powerpax out of the circut entirely . So there is a direct connection to the program track, not through a powerpax, wheather its on or not. I removed it from the circut.

Thhat did allow the NCE to read the decoder.   Interestingly the cv's were actually set. They did take before.  not sure why it didnt respond.  Problem now is that the entire thing has to be remapped.  bell and horn are reversed and mapped to 4 different function  numbers.    headlights dont work but that could be a map issue too.   That is the next step . map it

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, February 26, 2022 9:52 PM

I have the same NCE PH-Pro as you that I first purchased in early 2004. There is an eprom upgrade chip that was released in 2007.

Also, you need a programming track booster such as the PTB-100 to read sound decoders.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,247 posts
Posted by tstage on Saturday, February 26, 2022 9:52 PM

Shane,

Just to confirm: The Soundtraxx decoder does NOT respond to address "3"?

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • 1,057 posts
Posted by wrench567 on Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:06 PM

  Shane.

 It doesn't matter how many pins a decoder has. It's still supposed to follow the NMRA programming. If you installed it, check the connection. Make sure it's seated, none of the pins are bent and believe it or not backwards. Pin 1 to pin 1. It should respond to address 3. Some factory motherboards have a jumper plug in a 9 pin socket that needs to be removed.

    Pete.

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • 1,047 posts
Posted by betamax on Sunday, February 27, 2022 5:02 AM

Make sure you have good contact with the track when programming. If it can't read the decoder ID then it probably doesn't have a good connection. Cleaning the wheels and track helps.

You can always try a decoder reset in case the the decoder's memory is scrambled. No harm at this point.

You might want to investigate upgrading your command station to the latest ROMs. NCE has updated their firmware a number of times. Probably not an issue here.

Be careful with Indexed CVs, the Pro Cab system has issues.

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 2,572 posts
Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, February 27, 2022 8:21 AM

I just had a similar issue programming my Soundtraxx Econami 21 pin decoder. At the suggestion of another poster, I removed my PowerPax booster from the programming track and the problem was solved. If you use a power booster on your programming track, try removing it. I don't know if that's your problem, but it's worth giving it a try. Don't ask me to explain why it worked. I have no idea.

One other thing to check. Make sure all 21 pins went into the appropriate slots and none got bent. It's easy to do. If any of the pins don't get seated correctly, you will lose whatever functions those pins control.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, February 27, 2022 6:42 PM

After I posted this I had to go check, and try again.  It does not respond to "3". nor does that pop up when the program is scanning that cv.    I did take the powerpax off the circut and ran the program sequence again with identical results.  

I will check the pins.   I dont think mine has the 2007 upgrade, I cannt remember, have to look. 

 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • 1,047 posts
Posted by betamax on Monday, February 28, 2022 5:39 AM

Make sure you didn't install the decoder upside down.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Monday, February 28, 2022 9:40 AM

The symptoms - engine makes sounds, but doesn't respond to function buttons or movement commands - indicate the engine ID is set to something odd. Did you try to program a short address or long? Sometimes things can get messed up doing a long address, since it uses two CVs together. Especially a problem if you can't read CVs and you're doing programming anyway, easy to put an amount in the wrong CV or mis-type a number.

If you do a factory reset of the decoder, it should respond to 03 and/or 0003. Try it on 03 before making any CV changes.

Stix
  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Monday, February 28, 2022 4:25 PM

After checking,  the NCE Pro has the latest updates.  The decoder has no bent pins. 

 

shane 

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • 1,057 posts
Posted by wrench567 on Monday, February 28, 2022 4:59 PM

  It sounds like you have programmed other locomotives, so I don't think anything is wrong with your system.

 Have you checked the mother board for a jumper plug that needs to be removed? Is the decoder backwards? Can you give us make and model of locomotive?

   Pete.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 2,572 posts
Posted by John-NYBW on Monday, February 28, 2022 5:55 PM

Having just installed my first 21 pin plug, putting it in backwards would be an easy enough mistake to make. Just make sure the side of the decoder that has just one receptacle is on the same side of the board that has only one pin. If you do that, it can't be wrong. Also make sure the decoder is fully seated. If the decoder is properly installed, you won't be able to see the pins. They will go all the way into the receptacles.

I'm guessing this not the issue but it doesn't hurt to double check. I think the suggestion to reset the factory settings is the best one. If it works with address 3, then go from there. If that works, program the desired address and don't make any other changes. If that works, then just change one CV at a time and test the loco after each change. If something does go wrong, you'll know which change caused it. 

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Monday, February 28, 2022 7:18 PM

 Yeah I have done well over sixty with many different decoders. Most of those are hardwired, I.E.  they didnt come dcc ready. Well versed in that too. 

The loco in question is a p2k sw9.  This one is from the days of ancient history.  so it had to be hardwired with a standard 9 pin wiring harness and used a soundtrax 21 pin converstion motherboard. Noting odd or unique.  

 

Is it possible to reset the decoder even if the decoder id cannt even be read?

 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • 1,057 posts
Posted by wrench567 on Monday, February 28, 2022 8:02 PM

  Shane.

 Is it the 810159 jst9 to 21nem board? Try unplugging it from the JST harness and plug in a nine pin JST decoder and see if you can read and program it. That would determine if it's was decoder or wiring.

 I believe it is the LL switcher that uses the frame for left track pickup. Well known back in the day for popping decoders during a derailment. I have a pair of them that were changed out with wired trucks.

    Pete.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, March 1, 2022 6:17 AM

Good idea.  Didn't think to try a 9 pin to see if that would work.      The trucks are isolated and wired both right and left side. No grounding through frame.

 

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • 1,057 posts
Posted by wrench567 on Tuesday, March 1, 2022 4:11 PM

Please let us know how it goes and what you find.

  Pete.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, March 22, 2022 9:14 AM

Updated

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • 1,057 posts
Posted by wrench567 on Tuesday, March 22, 2022 12:00 PM

Problem solved?

  Pete.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Wednesday, March 23, 2022 2:27 PM

NVSRR

BUMPED

 

I fixed it.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!