I just realized I hadn't closed out this story.
The loco came back from BLI about three weeks ago. According to the repair sheet, they just changed a setting on a CV. The sheet also implied that this is an issue with NCE systems.
Seems like it would save them and the buyers time and money (shipping costs, if nothing else) if they'd put an info sheet in the packages saying to change that setting if you have an NCE DCC system.
Funny thing - I could swear I tried changing the setting they say they did.
But in any case, the loco runs great now! I'll certainly keep that repair sheet in the box so I'll have it if I ever need to reset the decoder.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
PruittThe loco came back from BLI about three weeks ago. According to the repair sheet, they just changed a setting on a CV. The sheet also implied that this is an issue with NCE systems.
And that setting was....?
I would like to know as well what exactly it was.
It doesn't speak well of BLI's quality control department that so many problems would be so common. Earlier BLI steamers had an all too common problem of not getting electrical pickup from the drivers on boths sides which appears to be a wiring issue. It would cause stalls when the powered tender wheels passed over an insulated frog. At one time, I thought the problem was confined to my K4 but after some testing, I discovered 4 other BLI steamers with the same issue. I think the others weren't giving me problems because the tenders had pick up in both front and rear trucks. There is a lot to like about BLI locos but because they have done such a poor job of quality control, they are dead to me.
Their diesels can have issues too, will never buy another one.
I'd like to know too, but I doubt I will every own a BLI for the reasons stated above and in nearly every thread about BLI
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I feel fortunate that I stopped acquiring BLI locomotives over the past seven years. For one thing, other makes and models, such as the Rapido RS18 and the Atlas RS3 that I caught in that time, were my choices to add to the stables. But, and I'm an ardent fan of BLI steam, I sensed they were going through a tough time between about 2016 and until about the midpoint of last year. I have no Paragon 3 versions of anything because none of it appealed to me and because of complaints.
Recently, I purchased a 4000 series Mikado from the Santa Fe because it looked to be a substantial improvement in detailing over the USRA versions in P3 variety. I'm happy to report that it is indeed beautiful to behold up close, and it runs so very much better with a cap installed. This will be my go-to from now on. I find DCC works very well for me, some intransigent steamers notwithstanding, and with so many new releases of all kinds coming with caps installed, it just makes the whole enterprise so much more fun.
I don't recollect purchasing any new BLI steamers since they released their Dreyfuss Hudson back in 2010. I'm quite content with my two Hudsons (steamlined & un-streamlined), two Mohawks, and one Blueline Niagara so I don't expect to make anymore BLI steam purchases in the foreseeable future. That said, if they brought out a 2-8-2 H-10a Heavy Mike or a L-2a Mohawk - with the "unibrow" EFW heater over the front boiler plate - I would give those some serious consideration.
I have purchased only one BLI diesel: A Paragon3 SW7 switcher. While the sound and motor-control is fine, the gearing is waaaay too slow. Wide open it will only achieve 20sMPH.
No, I'm not a fan of hyper-speed operations. However, I do want to see a locomotive that will actually reach its prototype max speed, which in the case of the EMD SW7 is 65 MPH - BION. Even 45 MPH would be acceptable to me. 20 MPH...no.
I picked up the Walthers SW7 switcher earlier this year and it's a sweet li'l locomotive. It runs great and has better/correct detail compared to the BLI SW7. I'll probably eventually sell the BLI SW7 to someone who will appreciate it more.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage I have purchased only one BLI diesel: A Paragon3 SW7 switcher. While the sound and motor-control is fine, the gearing is waaaay too slow. Wide open it will only achieve 20sMPH. No, I'm not a fan of hyper-speed operations. However, I do want to see a locomotive that will actually reach its prototype max speed, which in the case of the EMD SW7 is 65 MPH - BION. Even 45 MPH would be acceptable to me. 20 MPH...no
No, I'm not a fan of hyper-speed operations. However, I do want to see a locomotive that will actually reach its prototype max speed, which in the case of the EMD SW7 is 65 MPH - BION. Even 45 MPH would be acceptable to me. 20 MPH...no
Just wondering, but you ever try adjusting CV66 to something like 200 or 255 and see if its much faster in forward direction? If so then adjust CV95 for the reverse direction as well. I know there are some things that can be tweaked to help improve. I've programmed the wrong code before into one of their switchers decoder and it ran pretty quickly. So I don't believe its always just because of gearing. Like if you take the shell off and run it at full speed, my guess is that the motor itself is just not running very fast.
I was told by a few modelers here that both the Paragon2 & 3 SW7s don't go very fast. The 2009 MR review of the Paragon2 SW7 listed a top speed of 28 sMPH.
I tried resetting the Paragon3 decoder to factory settings. I also tried adjusting CVs 5 & 6. I even replaced the Paragon3 with a TCS LL8 decoder. No change in top speed from any of the above adjustments.
If it isn't gearing then it's possible that BLI might have used a low RPM motor?
maxmanAnd that setting was....?
Anyway, the note that came back with the loco said "If this decoder ever has to be reset, be sure to set CV244=32 if it is being run on an NCE system."
So that implies that there is something peculiar about how BLI locos respond to NCE systems. Very interesting. I'd sure like to know what that is.
But I'm keeping that note in the box the loco came in so I don't lose it.
While BLI was very helpful through the entire issue, and they suggested I don't buy the "go pack" (their version of a keep-alive), since the loco already has one incorporated into the decoder (although they said the decoder will accept one, and it would probably eliminate the issue. They said it would not solve whatever the underlying problem was, but would mask the symptom), it would have been nice if the rep I spoke to knew about this setting. Had she suggested the CV change, I would have saved nearly $50 in shipping costs to send them the loco (and would have saved them the return shipping cost).
Still, I'm a very satisfied customer at this point. They fixed the problem at no cost other than shipping, for which I couldn't reasonably expect them to reimburse me. The loco runs great, and I know what to do in the future if I buy another one (as is likely at some point) and it displays the same behavior.
Reviewing the BLI manual and the defintion in JMRI, it looks like 32 is the default setting for CV 244.
So if you reset the decoder then CV244 should = 32
Peter
CNR378 Reviewing the BLI manual and the defintion in JMRI, it looks like 32 is the default setting for CV 244. So if you reset the decoder then CV244 should = 32 Peter
That is assuming that it was not tweaked or incorrectly set from the factory. That is why you and JMRI CANNOT just take the "default" CV values out of the BLI manual and call it a day.
tstage I was told by a few modelers here that both the Paragon2 & 3 SW7s don't go very fast. The 2009 MR review of the Paragon2 SW7 listed a top speed of 28 sMPH. I tried resetting the Paragon3 decoder to factory settings. I also tried adjusting CVs 5 & 6. I even replaced the Paragon3 with a TCS LL8 decoder. No change in top speed from any of the above adjustments. If it isn't gearing then it's possible that BLI might have used a low RPM motor? Tom
I'ts certainly possible on the motor end of it. Next time I have one of those switchers here, I'll mess around with it and see if I can get more speed by tweaking CV's and putting in say AC6000 sounds/code in the Paragon 3/4 decoder for kicks.
In any case, glad you shared that information as to what CV was causing the issue / helped. I've saved that here in the event I have a customer ask me about it through my website, that I can recommend them trying that. Sort of how I have a CV in the event JMRI/NCE cannot program/read CV's, that once tweaked, fixes that issue.
As a side point, part of the issue with this industry is that not everything works or is a perfect standard and percise. So many of these CV's exist to try to work around issues that could come up for various reasons. A motor could be slightly out of spec or take more energy to pulse when it comes to programming, or in this case related to how that spcific controller works. Or again, could just be the default was not tuned right. For the CV you listed:"The locomotive is slowed when the brake squeal is activated. The rate the locomotive slows is determined by values sss. bbb = 0-7 [0=disabled; 1-7=consecutive broadcast packets received] Some controllers can send broadcast stop packets which will halt the locomotive. The amount of consecutive broadcast packets may be set by placing a vale of 1-7 for bbb. "
Actually, according to page 205 of the Paragon 3 steam technical reference manual, the default is 38 (it does appear to be 32 for the diesels).
PruittAnyway, the note that came back with the loco said "If this decoder ever has to be reset, be sure to set CV244=32 if it is being run on an NCE system."
That is interesting. According to the Paragon 3 steam technical reference manual that CV controls two things: the upper four bits control if and how much the loco slows when the break squeak is activated and the lower three bits control how many consecutive broadcast stop packets the decoder can see before stopping. The default setting of 38 enables the slowdown and sets the stop packet count to 6, changing the setting to 32 enables the slowdown and disables the stop packet count. If that CV really works as described, then is the NCE unit really sending these broadcast stop packets? If so, why, and why are other locos not stopping? Is NCE sending something else that the decoder is falsely decoding as stop packets (that's what I'm currently inclined to believe)? Many people won't care as long as it works, but some of us would really like to know what is actually going on. I kind of wish I had an NCE system to test with.
CSX Robert Actually, according to page 205 of the Paragon 3 steam technical reference manual, the default is 38 (it does appear to be 32 for the diesels).
Oops, because of topic drift I had diesel in my head and looked at that manual and not the steam manual.
CV 244 is one of those in the 'manufacturer reserved' range, so someone needs to consult both BLI and NCE to see what they have the 2s and 4s in their binary representation doing -- both will be important to this issue, or the value would be 36 or 34 respectively.
CSX Robert Pruitt Anyway, the note that came back with the loco said "If this decoder ever has to be reset, be sure to set CV244=32 if it is being run on an NCE system." That is interesting. According to the Paragon 3 steam technical reference manual that CV controls two things: the upper four bits control if and how much the loco slows when the break squeak is activated and the lower three bits control how many consecutive broadcast stop packets the decoder can see before stopping. The default setting of 38 enables the slowdown and sets the stop packet count to 6, changing the setting to 32 enables the slowdown and disables the stop packet count. If that CV really works as described, then is the NCE unit really sending these broadcast stop packets? If so, why, and why are other locos not stopping? Is NCE sending something else that the decoder is falsely decoding as stop packets (that's what I'm currently inclined to believe)? Many people won't care as long as it works, but some of us would really like to know what is actually going on. I kind of wish I had an NCE system to test with.
Pruitt Anyway, the note that came back with the loco said "If this decoder ever has to be reset, be sure to set CV244=32 if it is being run on an NCE system."
I would be curious as to what you read that CV as if you reset the engine. I honestly just wonder if that production was incorrectly set on that CV to something else, or left "blank". That would explain why your other BLI engines did not have that issue while this one did.
Overmod CV 244 is one of those in the 'manufacturer reserved' range, so someone needs to consult both BLI and NCE to see what they have the 2s and 4s in their binary representation doing -- both will be important to this issue, or the value would be 36 or 34 respectively.
As I stated before, according to the reference manual the "2s" and "4s", as well as trhe "1s", (bits 2, 1 and 0) are the number of boradcast stop bits required to stop the loco and setting all three to 0 disables the broadcast stop function on the decoder.
tsd...I would be curious as to what you read that CV as if you reset the engine. I honestly just wonder if that production was incorrectly set on that CV to something else, or left "blank". That would explain why your other BLI engines did not have that issue while this one did.
The only reference I saw to other BLI engines of his he described as "early-era". If they are Paragon2, according to the steam reference manual the default value of CV 244 was 0 in the Paragon2.
PruittIf power to the loco is interrupted at all, the loco comes to a screeching halt for about a second or so! Then it starts moving again. Sound isn't interrupted and lights stay on, so there must be a keep alive circuit on the decoder. In fact, the sound continues for about 15 seconds after power is removed from the rails. But the loco goes through what I can only describe as a really idiotic startup routine for even the briefest power interruption - the loco stops dead and the cab light comes on for a second, shutting off after the loco starts moving again.
The more I look into this, the more I'm convinced the problem wasn't actually caused by interruptions in power. Going back to your video, when you were running the loco with the clips and temporarily removed power, the loco would go right back to running and the cab light would not come on. When the loco would stop while on the layout the cab light would come on and it would take a second to go back to running. After seeing the "fix" this kind of makes since. The decoder is seeing these broadcast stop packets (or what it thinks is broadcast stop) and thinks it's supposed to stop so it does and turns on the cab light.
This could partly explain why some people seem to have so much power pickup problems with some BLI locos while others do not - for some it could be this issue instead that they are actually seeing.
I'm still not actually convinced that it's broadcast stop packets that the loco is seeing, however. I just have a hard time believeing that if NCE was actually sending them there wouldn't be problems with other locos. I wonder if they could be misinterpreting idle packets as stop packets. There is no standard for how often or even if the command station sends idle packets. With the stop packet count set to 6, the default for Paragon3 steam, it's entirely possible for NCE to sometimes send six or more consecutive idle packets while other command stations may not. I may have to set up a DCC++ system and modify it to send differing amounts of idle packets to test my theory at some point because now I'm really curious about it.
Perhaps there is something diagnostic in that the cab light doesn't come on and go off in precise 'sync' with the stopping. I know nothing about what functionality switches the cab light but it's not synchronized to the prompt stop.