Two wires from the harness that connects from loco to tender have broken off. Is this something that can be repaired and how would I go about it? Willing to attempt the repair myself just don't know if I need to replace the whole thing or just try to reconnect the wires with solder or something. Sorry, very new to train electronics and would appreciate any advice.
This is an HO Lionel Polar Express engine.
I'am the "adventuresome" type, and would try and figure out how the wires are attached to that plug, and try and figure something out.
Maybe even a way to "bypass" these two wires the tender.
Not much help, I know. Good luck!
Mike.
EDIT: LSM posted while I typed. His idea sounds like try.
My You Tube
Before you start messing with it.
Looks like only two wires are broke off at this time.
Put a drop of different color paint on each wire of the harness and on the socket where the wire goes to.
Just in case when you start the repair more wires start to break off.
That way it will be easy to match the wires to the socket location now or next year when you get the Loco. out of the box to run again.
The connector in the plastic plug is a tapered piece with a pin on the top so it slides in the plastic piece and locks in place.
You can "usually" press a pin or similar into the top opening to compress the connector allowing it to be removed. It's a finicky, pain in the butt process, but it can be done. Once out, you can lightly solder the wire back onto it. Use solder sparingly as too much won't allow the connector to be re-inserted and seat properly.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I thoroughly agree with the advice to color-code the wires, with the one caveat that you mark the wires at least one 'stripping distance' from the terminal so you won't have to color-recode any that subsequently break.
Contrary to 'revealed wisdom' there are ways to field-repair JST connectors. Aside from the pages on the JST site itself, there is this discussion of various types of these connectors and how to work with them:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1493712-JST-connector-confusion-the-real-story
(I doubt we will get whining over the technical TOS violation of posting to other forums, as the one in question is to a different hobby, but if there is a complaint PM me...)
I have to suspect that if those two wires have fatigued, the ones adjacent to it are probably thinking about going, too, so it might be wise to remove the connector and get clean wire into all the pins at one time, especially if you are 'gerontologically challenged' about fine work with little barbs and pin/socket elements . If the wire is cheap or prone to breaking easily, now might be a good time either to splice to it or replace it with a better grade... I am one of those people that wraps and solder-tins the ends of these wires whether or not I'm just crimping the terminal on.
It has been recommended that you make a strain relief of some appropriate material like Goo, adhesive caulk, or hot glue to preclude the sharp bending or kinking close to the plastic connector skirt that has caused this in the first place. This can also be used to make or attach 'handles' to facilitate breaking or re-establishing these connections in future -- they were designed as connectors, not plugs and jacks.
Get inside the tender, solder a two wire conector like one from 'TCS #1301 or Miniatronics Corp. #50-001-02' to the locations of where the broke wires would go to inside the tender. Route the wires out of the tender. Install the other half of the connector to the locos.'s wires, cover the joints with shrink tube. Reassemble the tender, plug it all together and test. If not sure of your work, test first then reassemble the tender.
The TCS #1301 parts have very flexible wire.
TCS and Miniatronics should make four pin connectors also.
There are only six wires, I'd do them all. Remember to mark each wire and connection before messing with them.
The connectors are a standard type. The pins themselves are held in by a small tab - in the first picture, note the rectangular 'window' just above where the whires go intot he shell - in there you should see a small tab sticking out just enough to hit the connector shelll. There's actually a removeal tool for these, but it hardly seems worthwhile to buy for one repair. A tiny screwdriver can work, the trick it pushing the tab in while also pushingt the pin from the connection side out the back (don't pull the wire, it will break off). The pins crimp on the wire - again there is a tool for that, but working caregully you can probably unfold the two where the wires came off enough to remove the broken piece of wire and carefully solder the wired back on. You can't leave a big blob of solder, or the pin won't fit back in the housing.
The idea of replacing the whole harness with a different type, unsoldering the tender connector as well, may be easier.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
This is more than likely a IDC (insulation displacement connector)
the insulated wire is pressed into the connector. You can remove the terminal end from the plastic connector, remove the broken wire-clean out the connector and then press the wire back in re insert the terminal into the connector. Has said before -you better ID the wires before another one breaks. I have repaired more than one just like the one you have.
rrinker The connectors are a standard type. The pins themselves are held in by a small tab - in the first picture, note the rectangular 'window' just above where the whires go intot he shell - in there you should see a small tab sticking out just enough to hit the connector shelll. There's actually a removeal tool for these, but it hardly seems worthwhile to buy for one repair. A tiny screwdriver can work, the trick it pushing the tab in while also pushingt the pin from the connection side out the back (don't pull the wire, it will break off). The pins crimp on the wire - again there is a tool for that, but working caregully you can probably unfold the two where the wires came off enough to remove the broken piece of wire and carefully solder the wired back on. You can't leave a big blob of solder, or the pin won't fit back in the housing. The idea of replacing the whole harness with a different type, unsoldering the tender connector as well, may be easier. --Randy
Second picture has a better view of those tiny tabs (the silver rectangle window) in the connector shell.
Everything can be fixed. The question should be is it cost and time effective? If there is no sentimental value I would check e bay for a used one first and just replace it as a first choice.
ndbprrThe question should be is it cost and time effective? If there is no sentimental value I would check e bay for a used one first and just replace it as a first choice
[Edit: of course this might be a huge whooooosh! on my part, and ndbprr might just be referring to replacing the harness. But what's the sentimental value of a harness? Or where can you find HO Polar Express locomotives on eBay for under $15 in running condition?]
I had a CLK55AMG with xenon self-aiming (thanks, Mike!) headlights, one of which stopped working with a good bulb. Shop cost to fix this involved something like $1200 plus labor; WATCH OUT for 25,000volt danger, no user-serviceable parts inside. On inspection, someone had "repaired" the igniter by substituting a bugle-head drywall screw (!) which cracked it; I got a replacement off eBay for ~$120. While waiting for the part (and driven, I confess, by a certain disdain for MBNA costs) I opened up the dead igniter, to find the problem was just buildup on traces of a PCB, which I 'fixed' with a pencil eraser, then closed the cracked case with adhesive silicone. Worked just fine.
Or to put this in a more MR context: when I was very young, among my treasured possessions was a Mantua Pacific, with its fiber drawbar which periodically a kid would break. This if taken to the dealer in NYC cost many dollars, then gold-backed dollars at 35 to the ounce, to replace. I think I was 8 by the time I discovered you could buy these drawbars as parts and put them in with a little care and a small screwdriver -- would that someone had told me this was possible earlier. Let alone make one of more durable flexible plastic strip with two holes drilled in it...
Seems to me this is true with only slight expansion for learning to solder right ... and to extract and recrimp or solder JST pins by extension. But for people with the dexterity or time to learn and then do it themselves, which isn't everyone.
Perhaps a key here, if repair is not 'practical', would be to put the broken one itself on eBay as a fixable example in good condition and recover at least some of the 'difference'. Or donate it for tax credit to an organization that could benefit.
Have you looked for a replacement?
https://www.lionelsupport.com/ReplacementParts/index.cfm?doAction=productPartFilter&number=6958018T01&productID=457c7ab0-16fa-4172-b52b-49b2e5214512
Perhaps buy a spare? (Part is $5, shipping is $10)
https://www.lionelsupport.com/ContactUs/
Cheers, Ed
If you carefully measure the pin spacing in mm you can buy prewired JST connectors off eBay.For instance “6 pin 1mm JST connector” =https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313&_nkw=6+pin+1mm+JST+connector&_sacat=0
"6 pin 1.25mm JST connector" = https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=6+pin+1.25mm+JST+connector&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=6+pin+1mm+JST+connector Just make sure the pin spacing is correct to .25mm, they are available in .25mm increments. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
gmpullmanHave you looked for a replacement?
If it is indeed a problem in such a thing, his first best solution is to get the replacement, glue up strain reliefs at both ends to prevent the 'problem' from reoccurring, and save the old one to tinker on at leisure for the 'spare'. I cannot find this on eBay either by its Lionel part number or logical search terms (e.g. "Lionel 6-pin harness") and so even with relatively high S&H I think it would make sense to order from Lionel as Ed indicated unless one of us knows a better specific source.
Thanks for the correction - that was a bonehead senior moment. Revised in original.
LastspikemikeMy first set of four "quartz iodine halogens" from Cibie cost around $100 in 1975 when sealed beams were $5 or so. We have not made any progress since then and headlight units are now $1,500 EACH, completely unserviceable and very frequently blind oncoming drivers because the automatic self levelling doesn't work well enough.
The self-leveling is a projector-beam issue more than an HID one. It is fun diagnosing and fixing these but it can be done; whether it is worth it to the people these cars were target-marketed to is another story! I subsequently had an internal-harness problem in the opposite xenon assembly on that AMG, and had a Mercedes 'master tech' repair it... a number of times. Turned out the master-tech training from MBNA is mostly diagnostic followed by part$-changing -- the guy couldn't even reflash an engine-control computer based on nominal part-number -- so I wound up having to trace and splice myself. Took me a while and I had to open up some of the assembly, but I got it... the question was how much that time would be worth to someone who could afford a car that was $78,000 list.
Now I know there are some people involved in the game who know how to rebuild self-leveling xenon assemblies, because I had an E38 BMW with them which my wife repeatedly took out brick mailboxes with. I noticed the self-leveling didn't seem to work right, and found that at some point BOTH assemblies had been stripped of the self-leveling parts and blocked in position, almost certainly at the 'family' body shop I used. These were of course not parts you could source from BMW whether in CCA or not, so it was much like replacement mirrors for mid-'90s GMC Suburban side mirrors, a horror story in itself.
Incidentally your '108 clock 'module' was easily repaired. You may have noted that at one time there was a lively little eBay trade in 'rebuilding' these units (for considerably less than a replacement) but a curious lack of information anywhere on the Internet on precisely how one went about rebuilding one. This was like chemical scratch repair for glass, or boiler-water treatment in large steam locomotives: everyone who went to the trouble of finding out material and technique commercialized it for bucks. This is stuff like replacing R10 on a Maytag Neptune board, trivial one you know the 'secret woid' but not something you'd derive cost-effectively from a schematic even if you could get one...
This isn't to say that everything can be repaired. I nearly marketed one idiot design of very, very robustly 'engineered' treadmill that was an unfixable machine: it had billet elevation uprights, very liberally greased, with limit-switch recesses precisely milled into them. It turned out that these would fill with grease, the very expensive geared elevation motor would run full down... and jam... and finally partially melt, in which position it blocked all the fasteners to remove it or the uprights even if you drilled out what you could reach. We literally had to chisel out the remains of the motor and gearbox to get it apart.
I got rid of my R-class for similar issues. The pano sunroof literally only operates a few times before its little pot-metal parts strip out -- usually with the roof full open, whereupon you discover there is no hand crank to get it closed. You literally have to remove fascia, including that for the electronic sensors to a couple of things, and then remove part of the drive and turn laboriously by hand to wind it shut... and of course the pot metal parts aren't available to replace. Worse yet, the gear selector is purely electric; there is no manual linkage or easy way to implement one. Now there is a little note in the owner's manual to never, ever put the transmission in neutral while driving. It turns out this is not a torque-converter or transmission-clutch issue: there is a fiber gear in the linkage, conveniently in a location inaccessible without dropping the trans, that is only good for a couple hundred engagements before it strips and leaves you locked in AWD, a fun issue to try flatbed-towing without further damage. You can theoretically rebuild one of these not to have the problem, but you better have a good optical comparimeter and be up on your gear-hobbing skills to try. We won't discuss warranty issues.
Now the issue comes up from time to time when you 'kludge' a repair on this sort of thing. Several suggested repairs in this thread, although effective, reside in this category -- a good example involving washers just came up in the Athearn flywheels thread. I don't despise the fine art of the kludge, having engaged in no few of them, but when replacement of the harness is so easy and direct, why argue about sources for the right pins or the 'right' tools to crimp them, or disassembling tender or engine to solder a bunch of new wires to pads?
HID is a proper term for these lights - High Intensity Discharge, exactly what they are. No improvement? They are vastly superior to any car I had before with standard lamps. Infinitely better than cars that had aprticualrly weak sealed bemas (most GMs, my truck also has really poor headlights - so much for Toyota making the best of everything), I used to think the Xenon lamps were a gimmick, seeing as how my BMWs without had quite good lighting, but this one makes those earlier ones look like they were using a couple of flashlights strapped to the hood. When buying used, you don't get to specify such things, so, now I have Xenon lights. At 8 years old, the self levelers still work fine, and so does the other nifty feature my car has - the headlights also steer so I'm not turning into a dark corner that only becomes lit up after completing the turn. Realy neat feature.
To throw away a loco instead of replacing a $2 part - such is the way these days, it seems. One of my favorite YouTube channels is a guy who goes around picking up non-working lawn equipment, anything from bloweds and trimmers to mowers and snowblows to lawn tractors, sometimes free and otherwise for pennies on the dollar. 99% of the time, all they need is a little cleaning of the crud in the carb and an oil change, and they run like new.
Unless you have the Polar Express loco because someone gave it to you and you really don't want it - but in that case I'd put the new harness on and pass it along to the next person.
Mel's solution is probably best for a long term fix, however, our club members have used electrical conductive epoxy to make this repair. A harness repair like this with the epoxy can take some strain, but replacement as Mel has indicated will be more reliable.
I'm wondering why these wires broke. I hate to say it, but I sense that the loco ran without having the tender drawbar correctly connected. It's a common problem, and if you fix it with original parts, it may break again. You might want to consider installing a permanent drawbar to relieve that pressure on the wiring. That's what I would do - and I would hardwire the connection as I never swap tenders between locos.
Anyway, that's my
Simon
Wow there is a lot of info here to digest. Thanks for all the pointers. At first I thought I was in the clear for a simple fix with Ed's suggestion. Thinking I could order the part and "plush and play" put me over the moon. But in the back of my head I was thinking I don't recall seeing a plug on the loco. So before ordering I inspected by taking off the shell. Sure enough this is what I found.
So, now, is it easier to try and "re-pin" the wires to the holes they broke from? Or remove the 6 wires from the inside of the loco, order the replacement, chop off one end and solder 6 new wires inside the loco?
If you can get a new harness, just unsolder the old, solder on the new.
At this point I would buy a new connector and rewire it using #30 black super flex Silicone wire. I’ve had very good luck using the Silicone wire, it flexes without breaking at solder joints.
Measure the JST connector and buy a bag of connectors off eBay for about $1.I wire all my passenger cars using the Silicone wire between cars and I haven’t had a broken wire in years of rough service.
eBay link for the wire I use.https://www.ebay.com/itm/14-16-18-20-22-24-26-28-30AWG-UL-Strand-Wire-Silicone-Flexible-Cables-Coloured/263738999323?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=562934208418&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
kevschwenis it easier to try and "re-pin" the wires to the holes they broke from? Or remove the 6 wires from the inside of the loco, order the replacement, chop off one end and solder 6 new wires inside the loco?
There is also the potential issue that the Lionel replacement harness pin dimensions are different from what is present. This could be checked but the time and trouble to confirm it might not be worthwhile -- I would do as previously recommended and carefully measure the pitch of pins or sockets to be sure what this is.
It is possible that Lionel replaced that pad PCB with the correct mating socket for the harness replacement, as a running production change, and Ed might have a corresponding illustration and parts list that shows this. If the socket were to fit in place, and cost relatively little in addition to the harness and shipping, the only soldering would be internal connections, and the engine would be properly converted if the problem ever recurs. That's more work, less certainty, and about as much soldering as the new replacement, but it is a choice to consider.
I note that one eBay seller (bmantya70 in Orlando, FL) says that he's happy to assist in confirming exactly what connector type you need if you message him. This might be true for others as well. I wouldn't buy these things from 'overseas' while the pandemic scare is still on, as your waiting time may be substantial...
I would at least consider using a greater length of wire to the 6 pads, perhaps supplying some relief to the bending moment at the connector. I defer to better modelers on how this should be considered.
If you don't have a good fine tip for your iron, get or make (or renew) one now, and be sure it's kept clean and tinned before each connection. I'd remove the old solder with sucker or braid rather than just re-use the blob -- use new solder of the same kind you use to tin the new harness wires after re-twisting their strands.
As in the previous timeless-topic solder threads I'd use 63/37 eutectic (or equivalent) and a good no-clean flux for this - it will simplify keeping the wire straight as the solder solidifies without producing a 'cold joint'. Be sure when you start to have the connector oriented 'right side up' relative to your solder points when you start to do wires, and be systematic in how you remove the old and add the new...
You can then experiment at leisure, if you like, with the 'removed' connector and its pins if you want to see what you would have been in for...
Don't forget to put a stress relief across the wires at the back of the replacement connector, too
(I purposely left this to the end, but the advice about using a new connector just for the two wires, and soldering just the corresponding harness wires, might be a thought. At the prices I see, I'd just use a 6-pin harness, connect to the corresponding outside pins in the new one, and just 'pin' and solder any new break into corresponding position ... this would eventually give you a compatible 6-to-6 connection with 'factory' pinout.)
Incidentally there is a product called 'anti-flux' that you can apply where you do NOT want solder -- this might be invaluable when keeping all those little connections electrically separate. The Tix anti-flux is a powder you mix with ... well, I use alcohol, but you could use deionized water ... and then paint on and let dry. Scrub it off with whatever flux is left when you're done.
https://harmoninie.com/products/terminal-ejector-kit-2?fbclid=IwAR33VBoyjFOAqbXonG_6yJoBwymoZYnOqfUSAHJeEdYIP027W5aPmuMPZOY
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
This is a late reply, but I just had this exact problem myself. The pins were too small for me to undo and insert the wire, so I had temporary success by removing the pin and stripping the end of the wire and just pushing that into the connector. The long term solution is the replace the part and use Shoe Goo or similar to make a strain relief to prevent it from happening again. The Lionel part # is 87-1811011-340. It can be found at Hennings. The part is the PCB board with the wires and connector for $7.25 as of January '22.
https://hennings-trains.shoplightspeed.com/87-1811011-340-pcb-w-harness-ho-berk.html
The parts breakdown is at: https://www.lionelsupport.com/ReplacementParts/index.cfm?startRow=26&PRODUCTID=73800C91-D5F1-473F-8350-8E3D21288C4D&DOACTION=productPartFilter
I hope this helps anyone who stumbles upon this while looking for a solution.