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BLI Paragon2 Pacific shorts system intermittently

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  • Member since
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  • From: Moneta, VA USA
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BLI Paragon2 Pacific shorts system intermittently
Posted by gdelmoro on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 6:39 AM

On DCC layout - NCE Power-Pro w/Radio - running layout about 2 years. This loco was running fine. Now it randomly started to stop and then restart. I noticed that the Mainline EB-1 was tripped. If I moved the loco 5 - 10" it would come back on and run again. Sometimes it would run around the layout until I stopped it then if I tried to move it again the breaker would trip. Sometimes it shorted out on a curve so I checked the track, cleaned the track and loco wheels but same problem on this curve.  Other locos run smooth over the layout and the curve.

Any ideas?

Gary

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 6:52 AM

 Pilot or trailing truck making contact witht he frame on the curve? The blackening tends to act as an insulator but with repeated contact it eventually wears off.

 Rods or gears binding up, causing excessive current draw?

 Internal wire rubbing on some moving part, finally wore the insulation away?

                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by gdelmoro on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 6:57 AM

Thanks Randy,

How do I repair the blackening?

When it's running it is smothe and quiet so probably not the gears??

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 7:13 AM

Does it short only on curves or also on straight track?

Hard to disagree with Randy, but I would be more inclined to question the decoder. Paragon 2 has had its share of problems.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 7:16 AM

Hey, wait, didn't this happen to you with a different loco(s) in April?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 10:36 AM

 If it happens other than just on curves it's probably not a wheel/frame contact problem.

 If it IS the decoder, glad I don't have any of those. Bunch of peopel at the club have the Paragon2 Reading T-1's and they get plenty fo run time and I haven't heard of any problems. I remember they day the shipment arrived, when we were set up for a show. Pre-orders plus stock for our store. Everyone of course wanted to run theirs, plus we test ran any that people bought, and I don't recall a single DOA. There were some programming issues because of the smoke unit but after turning that off, no real issues - just the usual finicky connection between the tender and loco.

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by gdelmoro on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 12:48 PM

The previous problem was with a Paragon3 SD7 which BLI sent a new decoder. That loco now runs fine all over the layout. 

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:42 AM

gdelmoro

The previous problem was with a Paragon3 SD7 which BLI sent a new decoder. That loco now runs fine all over the layout. 

 

But, wasn't that the third loco you sent back to BLI? That would make this the fourth BLI loco causing you problems. I am not trying to pick on you, but I am trying to determine if the entire BLI line is causing you problems for some reason.

Back to your current problem. Does the loco short on straight sections of track as well as curves?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:11 AM

No there were 2 locos sent back, the SD7 had to go back 2x because after the decoder installation it came back damaged (handrails and front plow) the other was a P2 NW4 switcher that just stopped (they still have that one).  There was a problem with a third Paragon 3 2-8-2 never shutting off and they sent me a new decoder which turned out not to be the problem. I shut the NCE power when I'm done and apparently depending on the condition when shut down the loco will come on when powered up.  Got that solved now.  This loco we are discussing has been running fine until now.  Are you thinking there is something wrong with the track/wiring/NCE?

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:50 AM

gdelmoro

Are you thinking there is something wrong with the track/wiring/NCE? 

I am not sure what to think. You mentioned that the loco shorts on curves. Does it short on straight sections of track as well?

I ask that because one suggestion by Randy is that the pilot wheels may be touching the frame and shorting. That could be but if the shorts also occur on straight sections of track, that would sort of rule out a pilot wheel problem.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 3:00 PM

Yes it shorts on straight track too. 

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:30 PM

gdelmoro

Yes it shorts on straight track too.  

If the loco is shorting on both straight track and curves, it seems to me that the decoder is the most likely culprit. Since the decoder is in the tender, it should be accessible to look at to see if there are any obvious problems before contacting BLI about possible repairs.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:42 PM

Regarding the decoder, what am I looking for? Disconnected wires?

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:16 PM

gdelmoro

Regarding the decoder, what am I looking for? Disconnected wires?

 

The Paragon 2 decoder is nicely constructed, so you are not likely to find disconnected or stray wires causing a short. I just wonder if any wires are frayed or bare or burnt or if the decoder has been come unseated. You may have no choice but to return it to BLI for servicing.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, May 28, 2017 7:00 AM

You can't make this stuff up. The other day the mainline EB1 was suddenly shorted. I took everything off the tracks. Still shorted. Everything was working fine (except for that P2 Steam Loco). I switched out the EB1 with a new one - Same Result, shorted. What's going on? Next I vacuumed the entire layout and checked for any visible short. finally, I disconnected the tracks - Still shorted. The other 3 EB1's (2 Yards and a Program Track) all working. Pulling the ONE hair I have left on my head out I disconnected the wires feeding the EB1 and replaced them. WA-LA. Apparently there was a STRAND of one loose and close enough to cause a short. WTH! How does something like this happen? It's not like they are moving parts! 

Going to test the steam loco today.

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, May 28, 2017 7:11 AM

gdelmoro

You can't make this stuff up. The other day the mainline EB1 was suddenly shorted. I took everything off the tracks. Still shorted. Everything was working fine (except for that P2 Steam Loco). I switched out the EB1 with a new one - Same Result, shorted. What's going on? Next I vacuumed the entire layout and checked for any visible short. finally, I disconnected the tracks - Still shorted. The other 3 EB1's (2 Yards and a Program Track) all working. Pulling the ONE hair I have left on my head out I disconnected the wires feeding the EB1 and replaced them. WA-LA. Apparently there was a STRAND of one loose and close enough to cause a short. WTH! How does something like this happen? It's not like they are moving parts! 

I am not sure how things like that happen, but they happen. If it is any consolation, I was working on a modification to my signal system on a section of my layout and my entire control panel that controls that section went dark. I spent hours tracking down the problem which was also a stray wire. Just be glad you found it. It is often a very time consuming process.

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, May 28, 2017 12:23 PM

 You do need to be careful with stranded wire, especially if sticking it into screw terminals. As you have seen, only 1 strand needs to be out of place to cause a very baffling problem. Once stripped, the end should be tightly twisted. For screw terminals it is actually not recommended to tin the ends, which would contain the individual strands, so you just have to be careful that all streands are inside the terminal. A magnifier like an Optivisor can help, especially with smaller wire. If there are 2 individual wires, or a 2 conductor wire is pulled apart an inch or so past the stripped part, sometimes it's helpful to sweep a small screwdriver through the space between the terminals to make sure there are no stray strands - though that doesn't mean that later movement of the wire couldn't cause a stray strand or two to short.

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Moneta, VA USA
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Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, May 28, 2017 1:29 PM

I understand what y'all are saying but what I can't figure out is HOW wires connected to a stationary device suddenly move and cause a short. Stick out tongue

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, May 28, 2017 1:37 PM

gdelmoro

I understand what y'all are saying but what I can't figure out is HOW wires connected to a stationary device suddenly move and cause a short. Stick out tongue

 

If s stray wire is close to another wire or terminal, it can happen, vibration, nearby hammering or pounding, you name it.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, May 28, 2017 2:25 PM

A single strnad of wire - temperature change, a stiff breeze even.

It's a subset of Muprhy's Law, if there is a single loose strand of wire not caught up in the joint, it WILL eventually make contact with the oppoosite terminal. Screw terminal, crimp connector, even soldered joint - doesn't matter, it WILL eventually find itself causing a short.

                                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Moneta, VA USA
  • 1,175 posts
Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, May 28, 2017 5:41 PM

Come to think of it I was doing some hammering Embarrassed

Gary

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Posted by gdelmoro on Monday, May 29, 2017 3:24 PM

Last unanswered question... why did the steam loco (Par2) stop intermittenly and not the diesel (Par3)? Both BLI.  For some reason the one loco caused the short to happen and not the other. At least until the entire layout shorted out.  BTW they both run fine now.

Gary

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 1, 2017 4:07 PM

I can't answer why one locomotive worked and the other didnt.  But what I can suggest is tinning wires where they enter a screw terminal, tinned wires dont have stray strands.

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