Friends, I'm getting ready to jump into the modern operating age, though with some trepidation. I have the following Athearn Genesis power to upgrade to DCC/sound: two MT-4s; a GP9 and early F3A/B duo and even two old Athearn BlueBoxes, a GP9 and an SD9. The most difficult will probably be an old Roundhouse/MDC kit-built 2-6-2 w/ Vandy tender. First, what recommendations are out there for the brands and models of decoders to buy? Second, will these have integrated sound? Third, recommendations for speakers? And finally, both the early-issue Genesis F3 A and B units are powered. Shall I presume that both have to be upgraded? This is a lot, but I've got the time, if perhaps not the dollars!
Those older models - the ROundhouse steamer in particular, but the Blue Box locos as well - test them on DC and check the current draw when the motor is stalled. You need a decoder that can handle this as a peak current, and most HO sound decoders top out at 1.25 amps peak. If these locos draw more than this, you can either go with a non-sound decoder, which typically have higher peak current capacity, or remotor the locos with a modern can motor to reduce the power draw.
If yo really want sound in them all, the go with integrated decoders that have the soudns AND runt he motor, using two decodes is a huge pain and witht he wide selection of sound + motor decoders now available, it's pointless to use dual decoders.
For ideas on how to go about this on these different locos, look at the TCS web site, they have many pictures of both sound and motor only installs in various locos. And also look at the Yahoo Group Rick Bell RPM Clinic which has in the files section a whole bunch of very detailed step by step installs of sound decoders in various locos. You don;t have toi follow these exactly, just use them to get ideas on how to fit the decoder and speaker in using any similar size decoder. Starting from scratchm, it's very advantageous to stick with one brand of decoder when posisble, it will make managing your eventual fleet easier. I've standardized on Loksound for my sound locos, replacing all others. I have just one sound loco left that has a different decoder in it. Any sound decoders I buy for future installs will all be Loksound. For future non-sound installs I will probably be buying Lokpilot, since all the motor control parameters will be the same as the Loksound. My current non-sound locos all have TCS motor-only decoders, that was my standard. I have no motor-only locos with any other decoder in them. When they're all the same, you get to know the basic setting CVs, so deplying a new loco is simple.
In N scale I might think differently, since it's much harder to fit decoders in, especially older models that weren;t made for DCC. Not all decoder manufactures have a full range of board replacements for every loco out there, so sometimes you need to pick one brand over another just because thay have the specific decoder that fits. In HO this generally isn't an issue. In fact most of mine are all the same - the T1 decoder which I hard wire in place, no plugs, no factory lighting boards - it all comes out and the wires get soldered to the proper decoder wires and that's all that's inside.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I won't try to address everything but here are some considerations, opinions.
Most decoder brands come in motor/lighting non-sound as well as more expensive sound decoders. From what I've read in the forum, I concluded a couple years ago that the LokSound sound decoders were getting the most good comments in terms of motor control and sound file quality, with the added benefit of (if you also bought the LokProgrammer) of being able to switch the sound file in the future. (An example, they added dual prime mover sounds for the E units so I was able to upgrade my E6s). So I went down the LokSound road, mostly buying the $80 Select 6Aux, which I hard wire in (it has an 8-pin plug) as it's less expensive than the Direct board replacement version and also takes less room.
Then, however, along came the new TCS WowSound decoders. I seem to see many positive comments on those so far, so I would encourage weighing them against the LokSounds. Then there are the very new Tsunami2s, but I don't know how those stack up. (I would not recommend the older Tsunamis, particularly, especially the diesel sounds (and the motor control is so-so, and they are a pain to speed match for consisting as they lack CV5 & CV6).
And if you look at the TCS site you will see many examples of installations, and it looks like the WowSounds have many "kits" for certain applications which can fit nicely. The TCS site installation pages are great places to see what might be involved with many locos, no matter what decoder you actually choose.
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Athearn/F3A%20WK/F3A%20WK.html
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Athearn/F2A%20WK/F2A_WK.htm
I suggest starting with the GP and Genesis F3 units, if motor isolated which is the minimum level of "DCC ready". When you get into these, most will strongly suggest replacing any bulb lights with LEDs to not have future burnt out bulb frustrations.
If you want to choose your own speakers, I like the 1.1" HiBass round speaker that comes in a square enclosure (from Tony's Trains and others) that fits in a cab unit width if the frame allows. I have used dual HiBass in my E6s and love that result. In the narrow hood units like GPs and SDs, I've gotten into using the "micro" cell phone type speakers, enclosed in 0.040" styrene enclosures I glue together. These can be wired for 1-4 speakers depending on the enclosure room, plus getting the net ohm impedance right for the decoder sound amp. (The Select will handle 4-16 ohms). I like the 13x18mm micros as the length is compatible with the HO hood unit internal width. I get the micro speakers from DigiKey.
If you're doing diesel custom installs, you may find cases where a lot more can be done for speaker enclosure room if the frame (weight) is modified. I found a friend with a milling machine that makes that problem easy to handle. Do note that with the micros, larger enclosures than the minimum definitely enhance sound quality. BTW, the 1.1" HiBass fits readily in many smaller tenders. In a small tender, if space is a real problem, consider the Select micro if the loco does not exceed 3/4 amp draw. (You should test the DC stall amp draw on older locos before starting).
Lastly, I like to recommend getting needed supplies on hand. An expensive option is a $55 or so temp-adjustable soldering station, that is a pleasure to use for these smaller installs. I got tired of using the cheap, too hot pencil irons, which also burned up the tips. Anyway, smaller supplies include LEDs (5mm, 3mm, 0603 SMDs, 1k resistors, heat shrink tubing, solder, flux, and small (30AWG) decoder wire.
Lastly, consider when you want to include a Keep Alive / Current Keeper capacitor in your setup, for locos that tend more to stall or have sound hiccups on minor contact interruptions. I've only needed one about 10% of the time (one was a Genesis GP9, another a 0-8-0). I keep the different size Keep Alives and Current Keepers on hand so I can add one if needed. Note that the difficulty of adding a capacitor varies with the decoder. With my Selects, I have to wire to teeny solder pads on the decoder circuit board, a little challenging but not extraordinarily difficult (with the right soldering iron). I think the WowSounds may come with easy connection options but have not studied that.
EDIT: An afterthought. When you are in the loco, strongly consider the quality of track power pickups. Many diesels have the wires just held by a plastic clip to the truck side frame. Best to solder that point, which needs to be done without melting the plastic parts of the truck. Well worth the trouble once you learn how to partially disassemble the truck. You will want to clean up and re-lube everything anyway.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I must say that sticking to one type of sound or non sound decoder is excellent advice,
Paul's advice is good. He provides a lot of information but it's worth studying. I'll also second what basementdweller said about sticking to one or two decoder manufacturers. I have a mish-mash of different decoders many of which were installed a long time ago. The problem with that is the different decoders require different commands so trying to remember which command to use with which locomotive is nearly impossible, at least for me. I now install Loksound Selects exclusively, and as funds permit, I will go back and replace all the QSI and Soundtraxx decoders even though they work reasonably well (emphasis on 'reasonably' - they don't hold a candle to Loksound). I even have one MRC decoder in a steam engine. It will be scrapped. MRC decoders are terrible. I bought it in my 'totally naive' stage. Ignorance was bliss!
Loksound is not your only choice for a good, reliable, easy to operate decoder. Lots of people seem really happy with TCS decoders. I believe Lenz is a respected name too, although they are not as common in North America. Tsunamis have yet to prove themselves as far as I am concerned. I'm not familiar with their newest releases but their older decoders required a lot of patience to set them up properly. Loksound Selects work great right out of the box, and they will even fine tune themselves with just a couple of commands.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks, Dave. Loksound is certainly getting a good promo here and I've been on their website this afternoon. Here's one additional item: I picked up a Walthers Protom SD-9 about six months ago that has Tsunami DCC/sound. Don't know if it's the newer Tsunami or not. In any case, should I be thinking of swapping that out and, if so, will a direct exchange with a Loksound be possible?
John
One other stumbling block in certain engines is finding a suitable space for the speaker. Many DC designs incorporate a large weight to increase traction. Sometimes this weight needs to be cut away or milled out to make room for the speaker. And, larger speakers generally give better sound.
In addition, if the current draw of the motor is too high, the motor must be replaced. This can be costly and difficult too, particularly in steamers.
When I encounter one of these difficult installs, I usually decide to buy a new unit with factory installed DCC and sound. Many times this is less expensive in the long run and you may well end up with a better running locomotive too.
Check LokSound, Soundtraxx and TCS sites for decoder specs. All the specs are there. Google the sites.
Litchfield Station and Tony's Trains has the info for most also.
I keep a couple dial calipers handy for measuring.
For older DC locos current draw, I have used the below for some years. My four meters are accurate enough for model railroad work.
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_HF/index.htm
When only analog meters were around, the ones with mechanical pointers, I used the meters the same way in home project circuits and checking older open frame motors in DC locos.
You might consider changing any locos with light bulbs to LED's. Generaly a 1k, 1/4 watt resistor is needed if the decoder does not have onboard resistors for LED's. That allows about nine to ten MA of current.
A few decoders have them and some have 5 volt ouputs for 5 volt light bulbs. Most outputs are 12 volt to maybe 14 volts which does depend on what the DCC voltage is from the system. Again, decoder companies show the specs in the instructions.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.