Just what it says, I am going to need at least 5 so I am looking for opinions and real life examples and preferences from folks.
3 engines I have contain ancient Lenz decoder and the slow speed is okay at best and the motor buzz is a buzzkill. These are 2 GP9s and one SD7 all Likelike and have been hardwired. GP are old LE103xf and the SD is a LE1014
2 other coming are Proto 1000 A and B units, non DCC equipped.
Planning motor only, debated using DH165LO since I could upgrade with sound later, but would still cost more than I wanted.(would let me take it apart again if needed for servicing if I used the holes and caps vs. solder)
D13SRJ with harness(which I will need) is another one that seems popular with folks.
I need motor, frt and rear light and the SD7 has a flashing beacon on the roof so anything 4 function should do me well.
I just do not want the buzzing lol
Also is there any easy way to make it so you can disssemble the engine in the future for repair, upgrades, etc? I can get plugs to use, but it always seems to get real messy real quick underhood.(this is what made me debate the DH165LO route).
I am trying to stay away from the $35 or $40 motor only decoders.
So tell me what you like, but more importantly tell me why. Bonus points if you have them installed in P2K engines
The most recent non-sound decoders I have installed were TCS KAT22s. Excellent motor control in the engines I installed them in.
They have a KAT24 with the added functions you would need for a beacon.
https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/KAT-Series/KAT-Series.htm
Just my most recent experience with silent decoders. For the most part, I have been installing ESU Loksound and TCS WOWsound decoders in the majority of my engines. Been pulling out many of the QSI and Precision Scale (Broadway) sound decoders.
Regards, Ed
gmpullman The most recent non-sound decoders I have installed were TCS KAT22s. Excellent motor control in the engines I installed them in. They have a KAT24 with the added functions you would need for a beacon. https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/KAT-Series/KAT-Series.htm Just my most recent experience with silent decoders. For the most part, I have been installing ESU Loksound and TCS WOWsound decoders in the majority of my engines. Been pulling out many of the QSI and Precision Scale (Broadway) sound decoders. Regards, Ed
Seconded. TCS decoders run like a dream and creep like... well... like something that creeps... really good? Sorry, metaphors hard when beer.
Anyway, TCS good!
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
I recommend the ESU LokPilot V4.0. Excellent control over the entire speed spectrum and can be had for around USD30.00.
All the best.
Joe F
If you want silent-running decoders then TCS and Lenz Silver-/Gold-series decoders would be my recommendations. I've installed both Lenz decoders and they are frightenly good. I have several TCS decoders (DP-, M-, MC-, and T-type) and they all run expectionally well. (For LL locomotives TCS makes an LL-series decoder.) Expect to pay $20-$50; depending on which decoder you choose.
The ESU motor-only decoders would also be a great choice. I don't have any of those but I do have a few of their Loksound decoders (V3.5 & Select) and they all have wonderful motor-control and are quiet
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I've been using TCS for all my non-sound installs. Most get T1's since I don;t need the extra flashers, the T4 would get you 4 functions. About the only locos I have that DON'T have the T1 are my Bachman 44-tonner which has an MC2, and a couple of P2K S-1's, also with MC2's. My P2k Geeps and FAs have T1's. All of these are hard wired, using the most basic version of each of these decoders (just wires, no paying extra for 8 pin plugs on the ends of the wires). All of my P2K locos have the light bulbs removed and LEDs installed.
I have considered switching to ESU Lokpilots, since I use only Loksound for my sound installs, that way they would all match, although I have no problems running a TCS equipped loco with a Loksound one. I'm not going to go swap out all my old decoders, but going forward I may consider buying Lokpilot.
Hard wiring is no difficult, the decoder still has a plug on it so you can swap it out, and you avoid any issues with the factory boards. Plus you can use the most inexpensive version of the decoder, and even buy in bulk since you always use the same one.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
tstageI've installed both Lenz decoders and they are frightenly good.
I've only done Silver, but I agree with Tom's evaluation. A Lenz is not a budget decoder, but it's worth every dollar you pay for it.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Mike,
IIRC, Bachmann did use stripped-down, low-end Lenz decoders in their DCC-equipped locomotives. These were of poor quality and only ran so-so.
tstage Mike, IIRC, Bachmann did use stripped-down, low-end Lenz decoders in their DCC-equipped locomotives. These were of poor quality and only ran so-so. Tom
Tom,
They must've been keeping that stuff quiet. I just assumed they were something B-mann whipped up, but I agree that whatever they were, they were worth what you paid for them -- nothing.
Almost every outfit has a budget line, although how much attention it's given varies. I don't know if those were sold as new parts to consumers or not, or just OEM, but I was referring to the Silver and Gold Lenz decoders you mentioned.
mlehman I don't know if those were sold as new parts to consumers or not, or just OEM, but I was referring to the Silver and Gold Lenz decoders you mentioned.
I don't know if those were sold as new parts to consumers or not, or just OEM, but I was referring to the Silver and Gold Lenz decoders you mentioned.
Yea, I understood what you were saying, Mike. I just wanted to clarify that "lesser" Lenz decoders did exist and were offered in Bachmann's(?) line of products. And, AFAIK, these were not available to consumers by themselves.
I have soem TCS decoders and so far they have been great. I have noticed in the past couple years their prices has risen dramatically. Being that my budget is limited and I need actually to outfit quite a few engines, are their any comments on good "bang for the buck" and economical considerations.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 I have soem TCS decoders and so far they have been great. I have noticed in the past couple years their prices has risen dramatically. Being that my budget is limited and I need actually to outfit quite a few engines, are their any comments on good "bang for the buck" and economical considerations.
D13SRJ from NCE with plug/harness is what I was/am considering. 10 packs can be had for $140. Everyone seems to have good things to say about it. Just want to see what else is out there, but $40-50 motor only is not my thing :-)
If really cheap is the goal, the Lenz Silver is not going to be there. But it is available starting around $35 street price (for an 8-pin plug version), depending on the connector style.
JEREMY CENTANNID13SRJ from NCE with plug/harness is what I was/am considering. 10 packs can be had for $140. Everyone seems to have good things to say about it.
Yeah, deals like that and you certainly can't argue about the cost-effectuveness ratio. The bulk of my fleet is equipped with NCE decoders, excepting those with sound. However, if one is looking for motor control exceptional enough to be happily noted, the NCE's are just not gonna stand out from the crowd.
If I knew then what I know now about motor control, I would've spent a little more. But that was 10 years ago and the biggest deal in decoders was silent drive. If you really want a non-sound fleet that intermixes well with the best of current generation sound decoders, all of which put an emphasis on significantly improved motor control, then NCE may not be your best bet. Not that either answer is "right" it's just that people have different expectations of what they'll get for their time and effort, as well as their budget.
As much as I like NCE (Power Cab user), I'm not as big a fan of their decoders. They're good, mind you...but TCS and Lenz has better motor-control right out of the box.
Yea, I have to spend a little more for them. Since my locoomotive roster is moderate (~20 steam & diesel), I don't mind saving for a quieter and smoother-operating decoder - particularly for my switchers because I want good slow-speed response from them.
tstage mlehman I don't know if those were sold as new parts to consumers or not, or just OEM, but I was referring to the Silver and Gold Lenz decoders you mentioned. Yea, I understood what you were saying, Mike. I just wanted to clarify that "lesser" Lenz decoders did exist and were offered in Bachmann's(?) line of products. And, AFAIK, these were not available to consumers by themselves. Tom
They were at one time listed on Bachmann's site to buy, for the low, low price of $49.95 - must be some good stuff they smoke over there at Bachmann HQ.
Lenz did sell them (or very similar, non-silent) decoders directly at one time. They have long since discontinued those relics of the early days of DCC, before Bachmann was offering them. Don't think anyone else (at least commonly available) was selling a non-silent decoder. NCE ones may not have BEMF, but even the cheapest NCE decoders are silent running. Not sure wht Lenz was thinking, Bachmann I have suspected it has to do with those capacitors and chokes they have on their circuit boards - the low frequency non-silent drive and no BEMF means those caps and coils don;t affect the control much. High frequency drive and BEMF, the caps and chokes interfere with the motor control.
Hello all,
I've had great luck with Digitrax HO Scale DH126P 1.5 AMP DCC Decoders.
These are a basic 2-function decoder.
I've used these as replacement decoders; with the 8-pin plug, for older ones that didn't support some CV functions.
I've also used them to upgrade DC locomotives to DCC. To hardwire just cut the 8-pin plug off and solder to the corresponding connections.
I picked up a 5-pack on eBay for $89.95 with free shipping. That's $17.99 per unit!
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I have mostly NCE decoders in my DCC engines. You can get them for ~$20.00.
I have also used TCS decoders and they work great too, although they are a little more expensive.
I avoid Digitrax and ESU decoders like the plague. Too many failures. I recently replaced the ESU decoders in some Intermountain engines with TCS decoders. It was like going from a Yugo to a Cadillac.
Don't know anything about Lenz decoders except they are one of the first decoders on the market.
Thanks for the input guys.
I emailed someone who attends the GATS here on a monthly basis.
Here is a qoute from him "I do sell a lot of D13SRJ decoders, DH126P and TCS T-1 decoders".
So I guess that answers my questions and D13SRJ it is.
I just need something for the fleet engines and so the boy and I can run different stuff at the club(he pretty much chooses anyway lol). Also one of the club guys does installs for folks and has used a lot of them as well and people are happy.
They sell a lot of those for a reason. Excellent choice. When I was first getting intoo DCC i used a lot of those D13SRJ's, I was buying them by the 10 pack. At that time, a 10 pack was $120, it was hard to beat $13 per decoder (and people still complain how much it costs to convert - 10 locos converted for less than the cost of 1 new loco). There were some others avaialble at that price point, but they were of dubious quality - the NCE ones have never failed, and I never had a DOA one. Some of my older locos still have them in, even though new ones I do I usually use the TCS T-1 for the BEMF, which is the only thing missing in the D13SRJ. However, the motor control is nicely tunable and with decent locos they respond almost as well as one with BEMF. Like the TCS, they work equally well with LED or incandescent lights (there's a CV value to change for best results with each type of light). The basic Digitrax ones at the time were great with incandescent bulbs but not so great with LEDs. Supposedly the latest series of Digitrax decoders have improved compatibility with LEDs lights, but I have no reason to buy one over the TCS ones I'm currently happy with.
10 pack of D13SRJs bought.
2 8 to 9 pin adapters for acouple engines and ease of troubleshooting in the future.
Stuid small shrink tubing lol
and a New in the packages Tsunami Fairbanks Morse(c-liner will work for Erie Built) decoder for $40 :-) Sometimes it pays to be nice and ask questions lol
Jeremy,
You will want to can the LL boards in the locomotives, see this article from Jan 2012 from my model rr club about LL boards. They cause a voltage drop and limit the amount of voltage availble to the motor to cause significant problems with consisting. http://www.mprr.org/clinic/modifyingproto2000
Please note this clinic was written before the conversion to DCC, which started in the months following the Amherst show. You need not modify the boards, just toss them (well, I saved mine because you cant throw away electronics in your regular trash in CT......) and hardwire your P2ks.
Also toss the giant light bulbs. They will melt your beautiful DCC equipped P2k locomotives. I use 1/4 W 680 ohm resistors for my headlights. 1/4W 1k ohms will work as well. My LHS sells prepackaged LEDs from TCS. There are cheaper ways including just buying a bulk pack from TCS (which I have done as well).
The type you have pictures in Fig 6 in your document, the SD-7/9 type, are a complete mess and should be removed for DCC, with the decoder hardwired in place. Trace the circuit after the "cut here for DCC" traces are removed and see.
Somewhat newer ones with 8 diodes, like the GP-7, when you convert to DCC using a plug-in decoder, there is NOTHING left - there is an 8 pin socket wired to the motor and lights with no components, and the 8 diodes are on a board which plugs in to the 8 pin, so no components dropping voltage when converted to DCC. Still, I hard wire those because, why waste the space of the 8 pin plug on the decoder harness plus 8 pin socket on the loco? And why spend the money on the 8 pin harness? All the wires are right there in one convenient place AND they actually have the proper color code (some do not though!).
In ALL cases, the light bulbs get deposited in a bin in my spare parts boox and replaced with golden-white LEDs with a 1K resistor on each one. A 3mm LED fits in the slot in the P2K frame to position it behind the light pipe. I have yet to try the cheapy ones from eBay, I've generally used Miniatronics Yelo-Glo. For more modern locos, the sunny white type is probably better.
Now your all making me spend more
Ordered a 50 pack wired 3mm warm white LED, 100 1k surface mount resistors, 100 1k diodes and 100ft roll of 3/64 shrink tubing. (what a hose job places sell 3ft for.....)
Just do all 4 GPs at the same time and there will be little difference when doing the SD7.
Yeah the new purchases run slowwwwwwwwwwwww on the simulated chopped want to be DC on the Zephyr...... Now my GP30s are great, although newer and have replacement DH165LO boards in them. Looks like my pile of lighting boards will grow ever more.
I just want a simple, rugged, affordable fleet. Getting there with some elbow grease, spit and careful shopping.
I also found these on eBay. I've used them in extremely simple installations.
These are probably the most basic decoders you can find. Two lighting fucntions and motor control. That's it. No sound.
The only drawback is that these simple decoders don't support some CVs. No back EMF, requires resistors to power LEDs, no CV 5 or 6.
On the plus side these do support short or long addresses, 14, 28/128 speed steps and advance consisting.